Should Cotts Become 5th Starter?

[EvilJester99]

I do kind of wonder if the Sox move Wright back to the pen, would they use Cotts as the #5 or would they want to give that shot to Grilli first? I say use Cotts but I would bet they are leaning to Grilli. IMO

[santo=dorf]

Yes, send down Wright when Wuncsh comes back.

He would have to clear waivers to go back down to the minors. Adkins will probably get the shaft and get sent down when Kelly comes back.

[JUGGERNAUT]

UNTIL N F'g COTTS can get through a pressure situation w/out WALKING in a F'g run he's NOT getting another F'g start on my team!

 

He should be embarrassed to call himself a major leaguer.

What's more his performance on Tues shows again why Manuel's decision to start him in the 3rd game in NY was horrible. He wasn't ready then, & he certainly isn' t ready now.

 

I want to literally beat the crap out of him when he did that! He singled-handedly killed the F'g comeback!

[SoxAce]

I am the biggest fan for Cotts as 5th starter, but Wright hasn't pitched that terribly. He gave up 3 earned runs his last start and I will take that from him anyday. Give him a couple more starts and see how he progresses. If he's not looking good, then you make the move.

 

And why isn't trading for Kip Wells an option? I am going to watch him pitch tonight against the Cubs so I can see how good and mature he's looking now at the mound. I'll be switching back and worth at times.

[witesoxfan]

I see I'm taking a little beating for making a potential Carlos for RJ deal.

 

My question to you...if we WERE to trade for RJ...who do else do we trade to them that is making money that atleast makes a little bit of sense? Konerko makes no sense, thanks to Richie Sexson. Koch makes sense for this year, but not next year, as he comes off the books next year(while RJ probably makes more next year). You could trade Maggs, but he is in the same boat as Koch, plus, we practically NEED him to produce. You got Frank Thomas, but he can shoot down any trade he wants thanks to his status as a 10/5 player. There's also Mark Buehrle, but what in the blue f*** would be the point of trading Buehrle for RJ when we need that 1-2-3 punch in the playoffs to win? After that, no one else is making much money, be it now or in the future. Hence, Carlos Lee enters the picture.

 

Lee is easily replaceable(Everett, Sanders, Mondesi, White, Cruz Jr, and no one said that Reed or Borchard aren't options), he makes $6 mill this year, $9 mill next year, and quite frankly, could atleast help fill a need for Arizona(or at the very least, would work in RF for a half year...they could also see if Luis Gonzalez can handle RF for that half year too...BTW, I'd also take Gonzalez to replace Lee as well, but that again would take more money, and Arizona would have to take on a hell of a lot of money to make these deals work, and I don't see them taking on quite THAT much). IMO, he's the one guy on the team who you could trade in this case.

 

That being said, the only thing that scares me about Lee is that he could go to Arizona and then just kill the ball and turn into a great ballplayer. To me, the one thing that could be separating Carlos Lee from say Manny Ramirez is patience at the plate. Carlos can hit the ball just as far, runs much better, plays his ass off, never complains, actually plays defense...etc. However, what he does not have that Manny does have is patience at the plate. From what I could tell by the mood on the board, Carlos looked like complete s*** on Tuesday because he was pressing and not swinging at good pitches...being overly aggressive(seems like some guy who holds a pretty big position in the dugout was overly aggressive and was not patient at the plate in his day...and of course I'm talking about Harold Baines). To be a .320 40 120 .950-1.000 OPS guy(or possibly even more), he may only need to become more patient at the plate. He walks 70-80 times at the plate instead of 30-40, he sees that many more pitches from the guy, he works the count into his favor more, and he hits the s*** out of the ball that much more...it's not that complicated. He goes from being overpaid by $2-5 mill a year($2 this year, $5 next), to being underpaid by that much, if not more, simply by being more selective at the plate.

 

Just my 2 cents on Carlos Lee.

 

BTW, this hypothetical trade for RJ would include not only Lee but Koch too, and then maybe a solid prospect/minor leaguer(not sure what you call Jon Rauch) or two. Maybe Lee, Koch, Rauch, and Diaz for RJ...maybe even more(maybe less). I'd have to see.

[SoxAce]

However, what he does not have that Manny does have is patience at the plate. 

Carlos Lee in 2001 (I believe it was or 02',) Walked more than he SO. I think over 70 Wlks and less K's but someone could check. He does have patience if he would stop swingin for the fences, but you are right about him pressing now. I don't anyone could be comparred to Ramirez or Bonds' patience at the plate cause not too many people in the league have it. Lee for RJ would not be a good trade IMO. If you would like me to say why I will, but it was for a Washburn or another younger, above average lefty, I would consider it.

[witesoxfan]

Carlos Lee in 2001 (I believe it was or 02',) Walked more than he SO. I think over 70 Wlks and less K's but someone could check. He does have patience if he would stop swingin for the fences, but you are right about him pressing now. I don't anyone could be comparred to Ramirez or Bonds' patience at the plate cause not too many people in the league have it. Lee for RJ would not be a good trade IMO. If you would like me to say why I will, but it was for a Washburn or another younger, above average lefty, I would consider it.

Lee did have more walks then strikes in 2002...that was when I felt he was as dangerous at the plate as he has ever been.

 

BTW, just as an example of guys who have as much patience at the plate as Ramirez(no one can be compared to Bonds...not even Ruth), just a few names...Thomas, Giambi, Delgado, Giles...to get you started, and you could (possibly) include Sosa to that list too. I don't consider what he has as patience, I consider it more pitchers pitching around him and him finally learning NOT to swing at all the s*** in the dirt(and still today, you throw him a tight curveball on the outside half of the plate that will break down and away, and I bet you get him to swing at it damn every time)...and really, I could almost see Lee do that too. He learns not to swing at pitches in the dirt, and he starts to hit the s*** out of the ball...maybe not to the tune of 60 homers a year, but 45-50 or so if he takes that Sosa-esque jump.

 

 

 

BTW, Lee for RJ is not a bad trade because Johnson is getting older and Lee is still young. Johnson can still bring the heat, and he always has been able to bring the heat. His s*** is still as nasty as ever, and he still can just rip a lineup to shreds(just ask the San Diego Padres). He is nothing like Maddux who, when he doesn't get his corner strike(also known as a pitch 6 inches outside), is very, very hittable. IMO, the only reason you would not trade for Johnson is his contract, and, while I haven't checked it and seen the details of it, is probably voidable at some point within it, and he probably will not pitch until he is 42 or 43.

[YASNY]

My question to you...if we WERE to trade for RJ...who do else do we trade to them that is making money that atleast makes a little bit of sense? Konerko makes no sense, thanks to Richie Sexson. Koch makes sense for this year, but not next year, as he comes off the books next year(while RJ probably makes more next year). You could trade Maggs, but he is in the same boat as Koch, plus, we practically NEED him to produce. You got Frank Thomas, but he can shoot down any trade he wants thanks to his status as a 10/5 player. There's also Mark Buehrle, but what in the blue f*** would be the point of trading Buehrle for RJ when we need that 1-2-3 punch in the playoffs to win? After that, no one else is making much money, be it now or in the future. Hence, Carlos Lee enters the picture.

 

My answer to you is ... You just don't trade Lee for Johnson. Period. Read the first few sentences of your third paragraph from this post as to why not. Especially the first sentence.

[witesoxfan]

My answer to you is ... You just don't trade Lee for Johnson.  Period.  Read the first few sentences of your third paragraph from this post as to why not.  Especially the first sentence.

I understand that fully. It is very hard to give that up.

 

My one final question to you.

 

If we have a shot to win it all this year, but we are potentially one ace pitcher away(RJ/Wells/Schmidt etc, etc, etc), and we have to give up Carlos Lee to do it, even knowing full well what he is capable of...do you trade him?

 

Personally, if I do feel this pitcher puts us over the top and if I absolutely have to give up Lee...I do. I don't give up Lee to get a LH bat(unless that bat is Barry Bonds), I don't give up Lee to get 3 good relievers, and I sure as hell don't give up Lee for prospects. Only to get a starter that will help push us over the top. If Lee gets us Kip Wells or Randy Johnson or Jason Schmidt...it's hard to do it, but I say good bye to Lee.

[YASNY]

I understand that fully.  It is very hard to give that up.

 

My one final question to you.

 

If we have a shot to win it all this year, but we are potentially one ace pitcher away(RJ/Wells/Schmidt etc, etc, etc), and we have to give up Carlos Lee to do it, even knowing full well what he is capable of...do you trade him?

 

Personally, if I do feel this pitcher puts us over the top and if I absolutely have to give up Lee...I do.  I don't give up Lee to get a LH bat(unless that bat is Barry Bonds), I don't give up Lee to get 3 good relievers, and I sure as hell don't give up Lee for prospects.  Only to get a starter that will help push us over the top.  If Lee gets us Kip Wells or Randy Johnson or Jason Schmidt...it's hard to do it, but I say good bye to Lee.

I still can't give up Lee for Johnson because it "might" put us over the top. Hell, Carlos' bat might put us over the top. Kip Wells may develope into an ace, but he's not there yet. So he's not the guy to put over the top. At Johnson's age, he could be done at any time. Beckett, Schilling, Prior, Halladay, Zito, etc ... I'd consider it, depending on the circumstances.

[witesoxfan]

I still can't give up Lee for Johnson because it "might" put us over the top.  Hell, Carlos' bat might put us over the top.  Kip Wells may develope into an ace, but he's not there yet.  So he's not the guy to put over the top.  At Johnson's age, he could be done at any time.  Beckett, Schilling, Prior, Halladay, Zito, etc ... I'd consider it, depending on the circumstances.

Fair enough. There is no wrong answer. I was just honestly curious.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

It's too soon to give up on Danny Wright. THis should be the year where you find out yes or no about him as a starter. There's plenty of time to give up on him later, if it has to come to that.

 

By the way, who says Kelly Wunsch is coming back? Sox management seems pretty down on him, and I read where he was the guy Kenny Williams was talking about in late Spring Training, that someone who thinks he is on the team has to step it up. I think they don't really like Kelly W.

[BrandoFan]

I still can't give up Lee for Johnson because it "might" put us over the top. Hell, Carlos' bat might put us over the top

 

Carlos is a low-800 OPS hitter who is average on the pads and in the field. Next year he is making 9 Mill. That's Jim Edmonds/Brian Giles land.

Put 2 and 2 together, for christ's sake.

 

He failed to develop superior pitch recogniztion/selection over his first 5 years in the league. He swings at crap, that's what he does. He's a greedy pull hitter who's simply not smart enough to be a star.

 

You don't trade for Randy Johnson for the regular season because at this stage of his career, he has to be limited to 90-pitch counts to stay fresh. What you need him for is POSTSEASON -- to go up against Pedro in Games 1 and 4 of ALDS and kick his ass. That's what you're getting an ace at the deadline FOR, period.

 

You want Hudson, Beckett, Halladay, Prior? Not happening.

 

As far as Cotts....He should definately be starting -- Danny doesn't have what it takes to be a starter, never did even in 2002.

[The Bones]

It's too soon to give up on Danny Wright. THis should be the year where you find out yes or no about him as a starter. There's plenty of time to give up on him later, if it has to come to that.

 

By the way, who says Kelly Wunsch is coming back? Sox management seems pretty down on him, and I read where he was the guy Kenny Williams was talking about in late Spring Training, that someone who thinks he is on the team has to step it up. I think they don't really like Kelly W.

No, this is the year we need to get the the playoffs and win, Wright or no Wright. We need to do whatever it takes to accomplish this, even if it means giving up on Wright before he truly gets a chance to prove himself.

 

But, why wouldn't they like Kelly? Everyone likes Kelly. He's been one of the most effective relievers for the Sox since 2000, when he's healthy.

[witesoxfan]

No, this is the year we need to get the the playoffs and win, Wright or no Wright. We need to do whatever it takes to accomplish this, even if it means giving up on Wright before he truly gets a chance to prove himself.

 

But, why wouldn't they like Kelly? Everyone likes Kelly. He's been one of the most effective relievers for the Sox since 2000, when he's healthy.

The reason Wunsch is tradeable is because he can't pitch more then an inning at a time, and we are quite lucky to get that one inning out of him.

 

In his career, he has appeared in 209 games, and has 151.3 innings. That's an average of just over 2/3 of an inning per appearance.

 

I like Kelly, but I can understand why he is available.