baggio202 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 listen closely to what bin laden had to say today...he is practically begging the fundementalist muslims inside iraq that hate saddam to realize that eventhough they want saddam out its more important to side with him now and defeat america....he said something about eventhough saddam is a socialist ,muslims according to the koran ,are not allowed to side with christians and jews and must back other muslims...us intelligence as come out and said different groups, sunni's, kurds are forming in both the north and south to take over...even bin laden knows this is an easy slam dunk for the US and is making one last ditch effort to rally muslim support against the US...put the pressure on now....its time....this is looking easier and easier everyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Now if that cocksucker would come out of his cave so the US military could squash him like a bug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 listen closely to what bin laden had to say today...he is practically begging the fundementalist muslims inside iraq that hate saddam to realize that eventhough they want saddam out its more important to side with him now and defeat america....he said something about eventhough saddam is a socialist ,muslims according to the koran ,are not allowed to side with christians and jews and must back other muslims...us intelligence as come out and said different groups, sunni's, kurds are forming in both the north and south to take over...even bin laden knows this is an easy slam dunk for the US and is making one last ditch effort to rally muslim support against the US...put the pressure on now....its time....this is looking easier and easier everyday And how are the peacemakers going to defend BinLadden on that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 blow the whole place up now while we still have a chance to........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I don't think any peace makers can defend Bin Laden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I don't think any peace makers can defend Bin Laden. they can always find a way to say we can "Make peace with him and Iraq." It's impossible.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I don't think any peace makers can defend Bin Laden. You'd be surprised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 blow the whole place up now while we still have a chance to........ More correct words have never been spoken!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 blow the whole place up now while we still have a chance to........ More correct words have never been spoken!!! And how exactly do we establish peace in a land when we've slaughtered their people ?(innocents die in every war) And the fact that the U.S. ordered 77,000 body bags (over 5 times the amount from Gulf War I) because the new war plans call for urban warfare. Citing an Osama bin Laden speech, he states that he supports Iraq solely because of the continual bombings the U.S. and UK have committed since the end of GW I (Gulf War I). After GW I, we have had continual bombings in Iraq (due to this condemned action, there have been more UN resignations in protest of the US/UK bombing action & the sanctions than any other topic in UN history). And did it dawn on anybody that bin Laden wants war in Iraq for his own purposes? If you have read any of his speeches, you'd know that he is desperately trying to polarize the world into Islam vs the West. So far, he's only been able to get a couple thousand. If the U.S. invades with an attack (unilateral, pre-emptive, whatever) this only reinforces the claim of Islam vs the West. bin Laden doesn't give a f*** about Saddam and Saddam and bin Laden actually hate each other (Saddam and his party are very secular and not religious). If the U.S. invades Iraq, we play right into the hands of bin Laden and just create even more terrorists willing to put their lives on the line to fight the "Great Satan". If we use the French/German peace plan they developed, we not only disarm Saddam but we deny bin Laden the power to use a war against Iraq as a "war against the East". Bush has already said he wants to help develop a Palestinian state (if you read a bin Laden speech from 2001, it states and I quote "America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine.") So, obviously Bush is catering to some terrorist demands. A war with Iraq can easily be manufactured by bin Laden to polarize more martyrs for the cause against the international bully. And that is counterproductive to TWAT (The War Against Terror)....but maybe that's what they want, an endless war to justify increased military spending. I don't condone the actions of Hussein's domestic policy & I don't condone the al Qaeda network for using terror and violence tactics to prove a point. But how can we claim a moral high road when we are arresting people w/ no warrants via the USA Patriot Act, having "preventative detention" of Middle Easterners (don't give me the "well, Al Qaeda is Middle Eastern......a lot of black people play in the NBA, it doesn't make all black people basketball players", the suspension of our civil liberties being told to "watch what we say and watch what we do" by Ari Fleischer. How can we claim a moral high road when we killed civilians in Afghanistan? How can we claim a moral high ground when our UN sanctions have killed over a half million Iraqi CHILDREN? Like Bill Maher said before he got canned "The terrorists from 9/11 are not cowardly. They are not cowards flying a plane into a building at 500+ MPH. What's cowardly is lobbing cruise missiles from miles away." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 apu posted: And did it dawn on anybody that bin Laden wants war in Iraq for his own purposes? If you have read any of his speeches, you'd know that he is desperately trying to polarize the world into Islam vs the West. So far, he's only been able to get a couple thousand. If the U.S. invades with an attack (unilateral, pre-emptive, whatever) this only reinforces the claim of Islam vs the West. bin Laden doesn't give a f*** about Saddam and Saddam and bin Laden actually hate each other (Saddam and his party are very secular and not religious). If the U.S. invades Iraq, we play right into the hands of bin Laden and just create even more terrorists willing to put their lives on the line to fight the "Great Satan". And I reprint that because I think this is totally right. If nothing else, strategic thinking means we should not play the hand that will bring more insecurity to us and the world. The Texas cowboy promised to get bin laden dead or alive. Instead of doing that, he wants to fight his daddy's war. Iraq is very contained. We should not be engaged in wild west thinking but working on the specific target and not going off target setting us up as the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 you guys refuse to open your eyes....its all over for saddam...iraqi people are just waiting for the US to come in and get rid of this ass hole....the only thing that could stop the iraqi people from singing our praises when we roll through is the fact that they are pissed because we didnt do it 10 years ago....do you really think think the people of iraq love saddam???...he is a dictator..no one loves a dictator...they fear him.. they dont love him...there was a reason why in the last war over there iraqi soldiers were surrendering to CNN cameramen... do you honestly think if we didnt go into iraq the pyschos over there wouldnt find another excuse to perpetrate terrorists acts agains us???...what was the reason for 911???...we wernt at war with any arab country then...they didnt need war as an excuse for 911...if we back down because bin laden wants a war to polarize the pyschos of the middle east then he would find another reason... these are desperate acts by desperate men..why should we back down and give then any credibility..btw...bin laden called saddam his friend...dont think they hate each other as much as apu wants us to believe... as far as france and germany go..screw um..they are the biggest hypocrites out there...their only concern is they get a substantial amount of oil from iraq ..(i believe i read like 30% but i cant be sure)..right or wrong is not in the equation with these guys..only 3 nato countries arnt on board...france ,germany and belguim...its 16 to 3 in favor of US...this will not be an illegal war...and when we roll through iraq then youll see france and germany begging to come on board with bulls*** like we were with you guys all the time... i cant believe liberals are not on board with bush here...this is a liberal war...this war is to remove a dictator who is killing thousands of his own people and replacing him with a more liberal -democratic type governemnt..(granted bush hasnt sold it this way..i think its a huge mistake on his part not to) but how could any liberal be against that???...thats what liberals are supposed to stand for..fighting for the oppressed...instead most liberals want a diplomatic resolution where saddam ends up staying in power...it just proves its politics over principles everytime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 blow the whole place up now while we still have a chance to........ More correct words have never been spoken!!! And how exactly do we establish peace in a land when we've slaughtered their people ?(innocents die in every war) And the fact that the U.S. ordered 77,000 body bags (over 5 times the amount from Gulf War I) because the new war plans call for urban warfare. Citing an Osama bin Laden speech, he states that he supports Iraq solely because of the continual bombings the U.S. and UK have committed since the end of GW I (Gulf War I). After GW I, we have had continual bombings in Iraq (due to this condemned action, there have been more UN resignations in protest of the US/UK bombing action & the sanctions than any other topic in UN history). And did it dawn on anybody that bin Laden wants war in Iraq for his own purposes? If you have read any of his speeches, you'd know that he is desperately trying to polarize the world into Islam vs the West. So far, he's only been able to get a couple thousand. If the U.S. invades with an attack (unilateral, pre-emptive, whatever) this only reinforces the claim of Islam vs the West. bin Laden doesn't give a f*** about Saddam and Saddam and bin Laden actually hate each other (Saddam and his party are very secular and not religious). If the U.S. invades Iraq, we play right into the hands of bin Laden and just create even more terrorists willing to put their lives on the line to fight the "Great Satan". If we use the French/German peace plan they developed, we not only disarm Saddam but we deny bin Laden the power to use a war against Iraq as a "war against the East". Bush has already said he wants to help develop a Palestinian state (if you read a bin Laden speech from 2001, it states and I quote "America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine.") So, obviously Bush is catering to some terrorist demands. A war with Iraq can easily be manufactured by bin Laden to polarize more martyrs for the cause against the international bully. And that is counterproductive to TWAT (The War Against Terror)....but maybe that's what they want, an endless war to justify increased military spending. I don't condone the actions of Hussein's domestic policy & I don't condone the al Qaeda network for using terror and violence tactics to prove a point. But how can we claim a moral high road when we are arresting people w/ no warrants via the USA Patriot Act, having "preventative detention" of Middle Easterners (don't give me the "well, Al Qaeda is Middle Eastern......a lot of black people play in the NBA, it doesn't make all black people basketball players", the suspension of our civil liberties being told to "watch what we say and watch what we do" by Ari Fleischer. How can we claim a moral high road when we killed civilians in Afghanistan? How can we claim a moral high ground when our UN sanctions have killed over a half million Iraqi CHILDREN? Like Bill Maher said before he got canned "The terrorists from 9/11 are not cowardly. They are not cowards flying a plane into a building at 500+ MPH. What's cowardly is lobbing cruise missiles from miles away." you first sentence..how do we establish peace in an area where we killed innocent people???..well we did it in germany , italy..we dropped 2 atom bombs on japan and we did it there...recently we did it in kosovo...its not that difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Like I said in a previous post the French and Germans practically begged us to go into Kosovo. How many American skyscrapers did the Serbs ever blow up? Today the Kosovar Albanians hero worship Bill Clinton and Madeline Allbright. I'll bet there won't be too many tears shed in Iraq if Saddam is toppled. How many Iraqi families have had loved ones tortured and murdered? Come on people. There are a lot of smart folks on this board. Remember Neville Chamberlain? You can't negotiate or wish away this type of threat. Whether or not Saddam practices the type of Islam that Bin Laden holds dear is totally irrelevant. There is more than a little evidence that Saddam's people and Bin Laden's have worked in the past and continue to do so to this day. Saddam has given aid and sanctuary to all sorts of terrorists. Abu Nidal anyone? Baggio's initial post in this thread gives me some hope. It may all come down like a house of cards before we even go in. How can anyone be against that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 im not at all against it all coming down.. and quite frankly i dont care how it comes down as long as it does come tumbling down...........what worries me alot lately is .. while our guys are sitting round over there in the sandbox, who is minding the fort over here??????????? blow the f***ing sandbox up already and get back home where they belong.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 The CIA is quite proficient at taking down governments (Hell, they did it throughout the 1940s to the current time all over the world) The U.N. Resolution of 1990 prevents invasion of Baghdad (It was the reason that Daddy Bush gave that he couldn't go into Iraq in GW I) The Treaty of Westphalia prevents us from going into countries with the purpose of "regime change". The Nuremburg Tribunal prevents "crimes against peace". The Nazis used the defense of pre-emptive attacks to justify their militaristic expansion. They were condemned saying that pre-emptive wars were not justifiable. So are we going to sink to the level of the Nazis? Well, we've already started the genocide of over a 1/2 million Iraqi children. The liberals aren't with it because the U.S. sold him the weapons in the 1980s. The liberals aren't with it because Bush has yet to give evidence that war is our only option. Bush has yet to justify the fact that a unilateral attack would break international law and make us world criminals. I mean, we have a President who didn't win the election and a regime who is s***ting all over civil rights in the Constution....so we should get another country to invade us and take us out? Saddam cannot be compared to Hitler because he has no navy, a SMALL negligable air force and his army is 1/5 the size of when it was in GW I. HSC said it right saying that "Who is guarding us?" The U.S. hasn't went after the people who perpetrated 9/11. They are going after some 3rd world dictator who had nothing to do with the terror attacks. If the US/UK case against Saddam is so airtight then how come most of the world community thinks it is bulls***? I just think it's a lame attempt at 'wagging the dog' because the Bush regime is failing so badly at catching Al Qaeda and it is also preventing the media from discussing things like our s***ty economy, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 apu i think you took that wrong.. when i said whos minding the fort.. i meant whos protecting us from someone waltzing in and taking over...........our troops are spread thin here with everyone being deployed over there to the sandlot.....and what worries me most is some wiseass like canada getting a bug up their ass and deciding to invade......can you imagine what speaking french/canadian will be like with a deep chicago accent??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I have decided to stay away from this thread because I have very pronounced views and a son over there. (Hey how many peaceniks do you know who raise Marines? But all I ever asked of him was to do what was right in his conscience and he is, and that is fine by me - but I am scared s*** for him, for Nuke, and for a lot of people, our own and the people of Iraq.) Anyway - how to bow out of political threads which will only get me really going yet leave you knowing that I am sayng Right On! to 97.36% of everything Apu posts and I don't want him to feel alone and the rest of you to think you are right - which you aren't so I got this in the email today and I shall leave the war and peace thread with this thought on non violent ways to fight the Taliban so you will remember that war is not the answer: As we all know, the Taliban considers it a sin for a man to see a naked woman who is not his wife. So, this Sunday at 2:00 PM Eastern time all American women are asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighborhood terrorists. Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this anti- terrorist effort. All men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of their house to prove they are not Taliban, demonstrate that they think it's okay to see nude women other than their wife and to show support for all American women. And since the Taliban also does not approve of alcohol, a cold six- pack at your side is further proof of your anti-Taliban sentiment. The American Government appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and applauds your participation in this antiterrorist activity. God Bless America! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 The CIA is quite proficient at taking down governments (Hell, they did it throughout the 1940s to the current time all over the world) The U.N. Resolution of 1990 prevents invasion of Baghdad (It was the reason that Daddy Bush gave that he couldn't go into Iraq in GW I) The Treaty of Westphalia prevents us from going into countries with the purpose of "regime change". The Nuremburg Tribunal prevents "crimes against peace". The Nazis used the defense of pre-emptive attacks to justify their militaristic expansion. They were condemned saying that pre-emptive wars were not justifiable. So are we going to sink to the level of the Nazis? Well, we've already started the genocide of over a 1/2 million Iraqi children. The liberals aren't with it because the U.S. sold him the weapons in the 1980s. The liberals aren't with it because Bush has yet to give evidence that war is our only option. Bush has yet to justify the fact that a unilateral attack would break international law and make us world criminals. I mean, we have a President who didn't win the election and a regime who is s***ting all over civil rights in the Constution....so we should get another country to invade us and take us out? Saddam cannot be compared to Hitler because he has no navy, a SMALL negligable air force and his army is 1/5 the size of when it was in GW I. HSC said it right saying that "Who is guarding us?" The U.S. hasn't went after the people who perpetrated 9/11. They are going after some 3rd world dictator who had nothing to do with the terror attacks. If the US/UK case against Saddam is so airtight then how come most of the world community thinks it is bulls***? I just think it's a lame attempt at 'wagging the dog' because the Bush regime is failing so badly at catching Al Qaeda and it is also preventing the media from discussing things like our s***ty economy, etc. everyday its looking more and more like the right thing to do is get rid of saddam...rumblings from within iraq say millions of iraqi's are just waiting for us to get rid of saddam...the rest of ther world is coming on board apu...much to the chigrin of you im sure...only NATO countries not on board are germany , france (like anyone cares about france - didnt they lose a war to greenpeace?) and belguim...by the time we go to war we will have a majority, a big majority behind us... and with each passing day your position takes on a more insane look...now we are "commiting genocide of over 1/2 million iraqi chioldren". yeah thats right...the angenda we hear on tv about removing saddam and setting up a democratic government is only a smoke screen..the real agenda by evil satans bush and cheney is to systematically wipe out all the iraqi children...i can see bush and cheney sitting in the whitehouse with their "dr evil " laughs just thinking about all the dead iraqi children... your position is more whacked then bin laden's...i havent even heard him come out with the genocide theory..youre really losing it...it makes me ill to read some of the crap you believe...if you really feel we are committing genocide why dont you do something about it..there is a group of 20 americans traveling through turkey right now..their goal is to cross over into iraq and give themselves up to saddam and ask to be used as human shields against the US...shouldnt you join them to help save the iraqi children??? cwsox..you know your son, as well as all our servicemen are in our prayers...we defianelty are about as far apart on this subject as we can get and probably pissed off at me right now and ready to kick my ass(im sure my message to apu did it for ya .. ) but your son is in all our prayers from all posters on these boards..for what thats worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 the only thing that I am pissed at you for baggio is your willingness to trade Mags - what was up with that? Now if we dropped Griffey on Iraq, would that be a big enough bomb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I know I said I was bowing out of this thread and I keep posting but evidentlly the little joke about naked women was not such a joke http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/ausp...alia.nude.reut/ and who says peace people have no fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 I know I said I was bowing out of this thread and I keep posting but evidentlly the little joke about naked women was not sujch a joke http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/ausp...alia.nude.reut/ and who says peace people have no fun? i already posted on the other board that you guys win..igive up trading maggs..lol they showed those women on the news last night...i thought the group that spelled out "no bush" was the best one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I've been thinking heavily on this subject and have done quite a bit of reading and talking to some of my professors. I know Apu has his statement regarding what we would be doing would be an illegal war. Well, let me say this much, from what I've read and heard, there were plenty of people saying the same thing when World War II came around and the Nazis were slaughtering everyone. Sometimes you have to go out and take a stand, even if some countries disagree. Saddamm is an asshole, who has chemical weapons and has no fear whatsoever in deploying them or his nukes. Why do people keep saying, make him disarm. Isn't that what the US has been trying to do for the past 10 years, yet he never ever complies? When is enough enough. Also, France is probably over there helping Saddam out for whatever reason because they are still bitter we forgot about them after the Revolutionary War. Of course we aided them in Vietnam and in the World War's but whats that matter to France. Anyway, what I'm getting at is now is the time to make the stand. The people of Iraq want a new regime and according to some people I've talked to that lived in Iraq and still have family there, the people will support the United States. The one thing I wonder is whose going to take over. Also, Apu is right 100%. Bin Laden does hate Saddam. Saddam isn't religious whatsoever while Bin Laden is an extremely religious person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 everyday its looking more and more like the right thing to do is get rid of saddam...rumblings from within iraq say millions of iraqi's are just waiting for us to get rid of saddam...the rest of ther world is coming on board apu...much to the chigrin of you im sure...only NATO countries not on board are germany , france (like anyone cares about france - didnt they lose a war to greenpeace?) and belguim...by the time we go to war we will have a majority, a big majority behind us... and with each passing day your position takes on a more insane look...now we are "commiting genocide of over 1/2 million iraqi chioldren". yeah thats right...the angenda we hear on tv about removing saddam and setting up a democratic government is only a smoke screen..the real agenda by evil satans bush and cheney is to systematically wipe out all the iraqi children...i can see bush and cheney sitting in the whitehouse with their "dr evil " laughs just thinking about all the dead iraqi children... your position is more whacked then bin laden's...i havent even heard him come out with the genocide theory..youre really losing it...it makes me ill to read some of the crap you believe...if you really feel we are committing genocide why dont you do something about it..there is a group of 20 americans traveling through turkey right now..their goal is to cross over into iraq and give themselves up to saddam and ask to be used as human shields against the US...shouldnt you join them to help save the iraqi children??? cwsox..you know your son, as well as all our servicemen are in our prayers...we defianelty are about as far apart on this subject as we can get and probably pissed off at me right now and ready to kick my ass(im sure my message to apu did it for ya .. ) but your son is in all our prayers from all posters on these boards..for what thats worth... I agree that Saddam is evil. However, if he is so incredibly evil, then the UN & NATO can step in for the good of the world community and get rid of his lame ass. However, a unilateral pre-emptive attack by the US breaks international law. We'd break UN resolutions, Nuremburg Tribunal verdicts, and numerous other international laws. Jim Baker has been quoted as saying that this "war is about oil." & Paul Wolfowitz has said that this war is about "re-making states". (Both those men have great influence in the current administration) Who are the United States to choose states that we don't like and go destabilize their countries? (i.e. Chile in 1973 and the tons of others that Congress made the CIA admit to) Do me a favor, Baggio. Read the book "It's a Free Country: Personal Freedom In America After September 11". The book is a conglomoration of articles from conservatives and liberals discussing the rape of our civil liberties and how the Bush administration is s***ting all over us. And the rest of the world coming on board? That's a good one...That's why a majority of countries are asking for the inspections to still work. Simply because they all found out that a bunch of the US/UK dossier that Powell used in his UN speech was PLAGIARIZED FROM A GRAD SCHOOL STUDENT'S WORK IN 1992! It's been covered in CNN, the Guardian, the BBC and numerous other sources. If we are gonna wage urban warfare and risk the lives of tons of people, how about giving us credible info, eh George W Chickenhawk? The UK media is now starting anti-Blair stories because of this plagiarism. They are saying that Bush and Blair are attempting to manipulate the world. And it's difficult to not believe that when they use plagiarized material that is 11 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 if you really feel we are committing genocide why dont you do something about it Like move to France Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 f*** this thread. The twin towers go down, Binladden WILL strike here again and and if sadam is not uder supervision with weapons, he will strike . we're supposed to lay down like f***ing pussies?????? The f***s wrong with you people??? Hey, it's us or them and if it means killing "the innocent people" who spit on our flag and cheered as the towers went down, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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