Soxfest Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I have seen in that some teams are asking about AT, but TJ was the worst in the NFL last year 3 of 10 in getting 2 yds or less to keep drive alive or score TD, so I see Bears keeping AT and him getting alot of the scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I think Thomas Jones will have a great year with our rebuilt line, for some reason Anthony Thomas just doesn't excite me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 A train must learn that he is a north/south runner. not fast enough to get the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 TJ is gonna light s*** up! just wait and see, with this line... he's gonna be a pro bowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 I have seen in that some teams are asking about AT, but TJ was the worst in the NFL last year 3 of 10 in getting 2 yds or less to keep drive alive or score TD, so I see Bears keeping AT and him getting alot of the scores. He was also playing for the Arizona Cardinals which makes it a little tough to get good production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 A train must learn that he is a north/south runner. not fast enough to get the corner. And they would quit going to the guy too soon. He is a bruiser who needs 25 carries to wear down a line, and make him really dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 He was also playing for the Arizona Cardinals which makes it a little tough to get good production. No he was playing for the Buccaneers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Bears running attack - ATrain + TJ injury / TJ failure = NO RUNNING GAME!! A-Train's top 5 performances: 22 rushes, 188 yards 31 rushes, 173 yards 33 rushes, 160 yards 32 rushes, 141 yards 18 rushes, 127 yards Two of these are in the Bears top 20 of all time. The only players with more than that are Payton (12) and Sayers (3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Bears running attack - ATrain + TJ injury / TJ failure = NO RUNNING GAME!! A-Train's top 5 performances: 22 rushes, 188 yards 31 rushes, 173 yards 33 rushes, 160 yards 32 rushes, 141 yards 18 rushes, 127 yards Two of these are in the Bears top 20 of all time. The only players with more than that are Payton (12) and Sayers (3). I'm glad you brought up stats. Why has the starting running back job been absolutely handed to Thomas Jones? He's done absolutely nothing to warrant getting the starting job. I was surprised to see Anthony Thomas get even 1000 yards behind that awful line we had last year, in the worst offense in the NFL. People say he can't catch out of the backfield - when was he consistently given a chance to catch the ball out of the backfield? Because, IIRC at Michigan, he did a pretty damn good job at Michigan. Bulls*** that he isn't exciting, or he can't break the long run - I've seen him do it several times over his short career with the Bears, one being last year vs the Packers. Lovie Smith can say "speed this, speed that". Well, he needs to also understand that while speed is a good thing, it won't be as effective on grass as it was on turf in a dome. You need a bruising back like Thomas, especially in the later months of December and hopefully January. I'm all for Thomas Jones having a successful year with the Bears, but he should have to earn his spot first. I'm all for sort of a running back by commitee. Hell, put them both in the backfield at the same time, I wouldn't mind that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 This is unbelievable. Do you guys really believe A-Train fits this system? If so you are fooling yourselves. He just doesn't have the outside speed or shiftiness to work this offense. Stats are very misleading. Thomas Jones didn't play much last year and when he did he was playing behind a very poor offensive line. While our line wasn't the best pass blocking line in the league they were a pretty good run blocking line. Tampa's was good at nothing. 22 rushes, 188 yards vs Cincinatti in 2001 gave up 104.7 Rushing YPG 31 rushes, 173 yards vs Tampa Bay in 2001 gave up 106.4 Rushing YPG 33 rushes, 160 yards vs Jacksonville in 2001 gave up 100.7 Rushing YPG 32 rushes, 141 yards vs Washington in 2003 gave up 103.3 Rushing YPG 18 (27?) rushes, 127 yards vs San Francisco in 2001 gave up 98.2 Rushing YPG Notice a trend here? In 2001 we had a very good offensive line, maybe one of the best for run blocking. He loaded up against poor run defenses in 2001 as well except for the 49ers which was an overtime game. We were a team that was always playing ball control in 2001 and trying to run out the clock and we had the O-line and defense to do it. He was rookie of the year when it was clear to everyone that LaDanian Tomlinson should have won that award. You can make statistics fit your argument if you want, but it is clear to just about everyone that A-train just doesnt fit this offensive system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Anthony Thomas -- 3 fumbles in 791 touches --- Puts the ball on the turf once per season, or 1 every 250+ touches Thomas Jones -- 8 fumbles in 596 touches --- give the ball to the other team once every 75 touches --------------------- At least TJ can break the big run -- TJ -- breaks a 20+ yard run 1 in every 83 carries AT -- breaks a 20+ yard run 1 in every 40 carries (since I'm sure that you'll argue that it was due to the good offensive line in 2001, I'll drop all of the 20+ yd. carries from that year, but still keep the attempts) That would come out to 1 in every 73.6 carries -- Still a better ratio that TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Anthony Thomas -- 3 fumbles in 791 touches --- Puts the ball on the turf once per season, or 1 every 250+ touches Thomas Jones -- 8 fumbles in 596 touches --- give the ball to the other team once every 75 touches --------------------- At least TJ can break the big run -- TJ -- breaks a 20+ yard run 1 in every 83 carries AT -- breaks a 20+ yard run 1 in every 40 carries (since I'm sure that you'll argue that it was due to the good offensive line in 2001, I'll drop all of the 20+ yd. carries from that year, but still keep the attempts) That would come out to 1 in every 73.6 carries -- Still a better ratio that TJ And when has Thomas Jones had a good offensive line to play with? I have also heard these fumble comparisons with Ahman Green and Clinton Portis. I would take both over A-Train. Is A-Train better at breaking off the long run than Portis and Green? As I have said stats are decieving and you can manipulate them and use them anyway you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 And when has Thomas Jones had a good offensive line to play with? I have also heard these fumble comparisons with Ahman Green and Clinton Portis. I would take both over A-Train. Is A-Train better at breaking off the long run than Portis and Green? As I have said stats are decieving and you can manipulate them and use them anyway you want. You cited stats in your last response -- yet those weren't manipulated Last year was the worst offensive line that I can ever remeber the bears having -- yet thomas still rushed for a 4.0 YPC average, and broke 7 runs for 20+ yards -- that more than in TJ's career -- And TJ definitly had a better O-line that the Train last year -- Also -- Who the f*** was hired as the O-line coach? -- the one from Arizona. --------------------------------------- What was the purpose of bringing CP and AG into the argument? -- No AT doesn't compare with either of those backs, but I could just argue that Denver and GB just have better O-lines(which they did), and that stat's can be misleading and manipulated. You seem to like to do that when you're out of anything to back up your own argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 You cited stats in your last response -- yet those weren't manipulated Last year was the worst offensive line that I can ever remeber the bears having -- yet thomas still rushed for a 4.0 YPC average, and broke 7 runs for 20+ yards -- that more than in TJ's career -- And TJ definitly had a better O-line that the Train last year -- Also -- Who the f*** was hired as the O-line coach? -- the one from Arizona. --------------------------------------- What was the purpose of bringing CP and AG into the argument? -- No AT doesn't compare with either of those backs, but I could just argue that Denver and GB just have better O-lines(which they did), and that stat's can be misleading and manipulated. You seem to like to do that when you're out of anything to back up your own argument. I took stats that were offered up and yes they were manipulated. No one knew who those games were against or when they were played. Put more facts behind them. Our line was not bad at run blocking last year at all. It was definately better than Tampa's. Ahman Green has 25 fumbles in 1,269 touches, average of one every 61 touches. That is more than Thomas Jones. Would you not want Ahman Green instead of Train? I don't give a s*** who the O-Line coach is. I care about who is actually PLAYING on the O-Line. Look who was PLAYING in Arizona at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Marshall Faulk fumbles once every 85 touches Kevan Barlow fumbles once every 68 touches Tiki Barber fumbles once every 37 touches Clinton Portis fumbles once every 80 touches Fred Taylor fumbles once every 92 touches Edgerin James fumbles once every 63 touches I would take each and every one of these backs ahead of Train in the system we will be using. You wouldn't? They all fumble more than Train and are around the same range as TJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Marshall Faulk fumbles once every 85 touches Kevan Barlow fumbles once every 68 touches Tiki Barber fumbles once every 37 touches Clinton Portis fumbles once every 80 touches Fred Taylor fumbles once every 92 touches Edgerin James fumbles once every 63 touches I would take each and every one of these backs ahead of Train in the system we will be using. You wouldn't? They all fumble more than Train and are around the same range as TJ. All of them have better offensive lines-- and those numbers are manipulated The point is we aren't comparing those backs -- we are comparing TJ and AT How does TJ compare to those backs? -- Less favorably than does the train. Also how many of those backs have shown the GREAT break-away ability of TJ? -- 3 20+ yard rushes a season is really hard to match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Our line was not bad at run blocking last year at all. It was definately better than Tampa's. 2003: Chicago rushing ypg 110.3 Tampa Bay rushing ypg 103.0 That's definitely better? A whole 7 yards a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 22 rushes, 188 yards vs Cincinatti in 2001 gave up 104.7 Rushing YPG 31 rushes, 173 yards vs Tampa Bay in 2001 gave up 106.4 Rushing YPG 33 rushes, 160 yards vs Jacksonville in 2001 gave up 100.7 Rushing YPG 32 rushes, 141 yards vs Washington in 2003 gave up 103.3 Rushing YPG 18 (27?) rushes, 127 yards vs San Francisco in 2001 gave up 98.2 Rushing YPG Notice a trend here? In 2001 we had a very good offensive line, maybe one of the best for run blocking. He loaded up against poor run defenses in 2001 as well except for the 49ers which was an overtime game. We were a team that was always playing ball control in 2001 and trying to run out the clock and we had the O-line and defense to do it. He was rookie of the year when it was clear to everyone that LaDanian Tomlinson should have won that award. You can make statistics fit your argument if you want, but it is clear to just about everyone that A-train just doesnt fit this offensive system. 2001 Cincinnati Rush defense ranked 11th 2001 Tampa Bay rush defense ranked 12th 2001 Jacksonville rush defense ranked 10th 2003 Washington rush defense ranked 24th 2001 San Francisco rush defense ranked 9th 2001 Bears rush offense ranked 17th Bears were in the bottom half in the NFL in running the football while these teams A-Train ran against, with the exception of Washington were in the upper half of the league. So your theory of the Bears great offensive line for blocking doesn't hold up. If you remember the Bears were a better pass blocking line that year only allowing 12 sacks for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 all your stats are belong to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Thomas Jones will be the opening day starter and there is NOTHING we can do about it. But I can guarantee that A-Train will be in there on 3rd down situations. Now, if Jones faulters and A-Train does well, A-Train will get 1000+ yards with the revamped O-Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 all your stats are belong to us. Que? Does this make any sense to anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 2003: Chicago rushing ypg 110.3 Tampa Bay rushing ypg 103.0 That's definitely better? A whole 7 yards a game? You judge O-Lines by stats or do you judge them by watching them play? To each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 2001 Cincinnati Rush defense ranked 11th 2001 Tampa Bay rush defense ranked 12th 2001 Jacksonville rush defense ranked 10th 2003 Washington rush defense ranked 24th 2001 San Francisco rush defense ranked 9th 2001 Bears rush offense ranked 17th Bears were in the bottom half in the NFL in running the football while these teams A-Train ran against, with the exception of Washington were in the upper half of the league. So your theory of the Bears great offensive line for blocking doesn't hold up. If you remember the Bears were a better pass blocking line that year only allowing 12 sacks for the season. Bears averaged 108.9 Yards per game rushing in 2001 which placed them 16th in the NFL in 2001. Ahead of teams such as New Orleans, Balitmore, San Diego, and Green Bay. Those are some pretty good running teams. So we were middle of the pack. My theory of the great run blocking offensive line doesnt hold up why? Cause the stats say so? Go back and look who we had and you will see it was a damn good run blocking line. Blake Brockermeyer, Rex Tucker, Olin Kreutz, Chris Villarrial, and Big Cat Williams. If you think that was a bad run blocking line or mediocre run blocking line then you are fooling yourself. Watch the games and dont worry about the stats. San Fran ranked 9th with 98.2 YPG Jacksonville ranked 10th with 100.7 YPG Cincinatti ranked 11th with 104.7 YPG Tampa Bay ranked 12th with 106.4 YPG So what? Ranked 20th were the Washington Redskins in 2001 at 116.8 YPG. That is only 10 more yards per game than Tampa Bay. Is there really much seperating teams when it comes to ranking them? From the very top to the very bottom yes, but from the middle teams no there isn't. You can take all these stats and throw em out the window they don't mean crap. If a team is giving up 100 or more yards per game I would definately not consider them a good run defense. Everyone of those teams besides San Fran averaged more than 100 YPG against. These stats you have pointed out mean s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 All of them have better offensive lines-- and those numbers are manipulated The point is we aren't comparing those backs -- we are comparing TJ and AT How does TJ compare to those backs? -- Less favorably than does the train. Also how many of those backs have shown the GREAT break-away ability of TJ? -- 3 20+ yard rushes a season is really hard to match It is so funny because when the Bears start winning and Thomas Jones is running all over the place you will not even be able to enjoy it. You will be so pissed off that he is actually doing good. Sucks to be you. Plus you never really explained how Jerry Angelo sabotaged the coaching staff last year. You seemed to just blow that off and never responded to it. I would love to hear your explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 It is so funny because when the Bears start winning and Thomas Jones is running all over the place you will not even be able to enjoy it. You will be so pissed off that he is actually doing good. Sucks to be you. Plus you never really explained how Jerry Angelo sabotaged the coaching staff last year. You seemed to just blow that off and never responded to it. I would love to hear your explanation. First of all it's nearly impossible not to win in the NFL(the Bengals even won 8 games) -- I submit the 2003 Chicago Bears as exhibit A -- They nearly finished .500, while having the worst offensive line I have ever seen in a bears uniform -- Remember the San Fran game :puke Why bring JA into this argument? -- I never mentioned him, Nobody else mentioned him -- The Name of the thread is "TJ/A-train", yet when you've been 'pwn3d' by several posters here, you bring up other names like Clinton Portis.. Or bring up JA. For what purpose? -- Are you really taking away from the real argument -- TJ has never done anything to deserve a starting NFL job. He couldn't hack it in Arizona, couldn't beat out the HOF Pittman in TB, Fumbles the ball, and doesn't break big runs -- Why would I welcome a guy who is a castoff of both Arizona and TB? Are thier uniforms made of kryptonite? Will TJ suddenly turn into superman because he puts on a magic jersey? Will I be mad if the Bears win, make the playoffs with TJ as thier featured back? No. I'm a Bears fan. But just because I'm a bears fan, doesn't mean I have to accept everything they do as Gospel. That would be acting like a cubs fan. So I'm going to continue to question the moves of the Bears. There will be some moves I like, and some that I don't. Some moves will work, others won't. There's no reason to have blind faith in any sports organization. That's just "Cubbieism". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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