Wong & Owens Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Rhode Island population: 1,058,920 Alaska Population : 634,892 OK. Cute. I was obviously referring to physical size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Rhode Island population: 1,058,920 Alaska Population : 634,892 OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 I was saying that some people believe that humans were created by God, and did not evolve. **AND(I'M SORRY), THOSE PEOPLE ARE SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT. some people would say humans from monkeys is akin to dragons in antarctica **SEE ABOVE ANSWER I tak offense to that. Thanks. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Anyone who would refuse to acknowledge that humans and apes have common ancestors, in light of the HEAPING MOUNDS of evidence saying so, then yes, they are ignorant, stubborn, and most likely scared. Here's some proof to validate this argument. Genetics have proven there is over a 99% similarity between primate (specifically Chimpanzee) and human DNA. http://24hour.sacbee.com/24hour/healthscie...p-6219132c.html Far as Noah Ark, I remember Discovery Channel running a special on what could be the "object" located on Mt. Ararat. Up to the time the program was made (I'm guessing late 90's) the U.S. government wouldn't de-classify aerial photos of the moutain terrain in which the strange "object" was to be located. It sure didn't help that the Turkish government was denying researchers access to the mountain. Why would the U.S. withhold pictures of the mountain and Turkey prevent any expeditions? Could it be that there is NOTHING on top of Ararat and U.S. was doing everything it could (including persuading Turkey) not to allow anyone to find out the truth. Maybe the absense of Noah Ark would be yet another example of how the bible is proven false. (Remember how God created the world in seven days) Whatever the prior excuse for withholding information/access to the mountain, what is going to happen when those mountaineers find nothing but a big f***ing chunk of ice? I'm very interested in how this story progresses. I'm sure Christian leaders across the world are paying very close attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Cute. I was obviously referring to physical size. I figured, but I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Actually the evolution theory is that monkeys and humans are decended from the same 'line' so to speak. Not that humans are decended from monkeys. And for whatever it's worth, I do believe in evolution. But I do think God started the whole thing so I guess what I believe is that they are inter-related... I'll make it quick, sorta. FanOf14, you have it exactly right of course. NO evolutionary biologist - classical nor Neo-Darwinian EVER said man descended from monkeys. I think the words WayneGhost used... SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT... are perfectly accurate descriptors of anyone who wants to dismiss >3.5 years of testable, verifiable life on Earth with statements along the lines of "Well, I didn't come from no damn monkey." What a bite in the ass for the Flat-Earther mouth-breathing set to find out humans are just a blip on the organic roadmap. PA, not in any way to say SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT are terms I'd ever tag on to the vast majority of spiritually minded yet also simultaneously intelligent people. Just the SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT ones (and they know who they are). I appreciate that you refrain from the evolutionary debates, but to casually toss around the 'man from monkeys' misconception while fully knowing it falsely represents evolutionary theory doesn't add anything of substance. As for Noah's Ark - sure, let a privately funded team of explorers look for that, unicorns, Leprechauns, or whatever else they want to. My research institution had a group contact them in all seriousness about hiring out our research ships and manned submersibles to go look for Atlantis (no lie). They had maps and everything, and if they come up with the scratch to pay for 30K a day in ship and sub-ops support, we'll do it. The research cruise schedule has been light the last two years due to Federal budget redirections, so what the heck. We won't be calling Discovery Channel about the old Atlantis mission though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 YES! Yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 I tak offense to that. Thanks. :headshake OK, if I apologize for offending you, will please elaborate on why you would disregard an ocean-sized container of evidence that says you and Bonzo are cousins? Does the adam and eve story actually make any sense to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 27, 2004 Author Share Posted April 27, 2004 No theres not. The bible is the only place it is mentioned, and the bible is not a reliable history source. There is actually a lot of archiological evidence that points to a catstrophic flood of the middle east. There is also lots of archiological evidence for lots of biblical stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Maybe the absense of Noah Ark would be yet another example of how the bible is proven false. Why don't you list those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Far as Noah Ark, I remember Discovery Channel running a special on what could be the "object" located on Mt. Ararat. Up to the time the program was made (I'm guessing late 90's) the U.S. government wouldn't de-classify aerial photos of the moutain terrain in which the strange "object" was to be located. It sure didn't help that the Turkish government was denying researchers access to the mountain. Why would the U.S. withhold pictures of the mountain and Turkey prevent any expeditions? Could it be that there is NOTHING on top of Ararat and U.S. was doing everything it could (including persuading Turkey) not to allow anyone to find out the truth. Maybe the absense of Noah Ark would be yet another example of how the bible is proven false. (Remember how God created the world in seven days) Whatever the prior excuse for withholding information/access to the mountain, what is going to happen when those mountaineers find nothing but a big f***ing chunk of ice? I'm very interested in how this story progresses. I'm sure Christian leaders across the world are paying very close attention. exactly what I was saying. whoopie, so there's nothing up there, why the fuss if there isn't? it won't disprove christianity or the existence of God. On the contrary, what happens if there is something up there? Remember how God created the world in seven days please, read the bible before you attempt to quote from it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Late in his life, I can't find the exact quote but, Darwin even said that if you believe that all the perfection in the human body happened by chance without help from a supreme being, you're nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 There is actually a lot of archiological evidence that points to a catstrophic flood of the middle east. There is also lots of archiological evidence for lots of biblical stories. A flood in the MIDDLE EAST, sure. But the bible says/implies(and correct me if my recollection is off-line) that the whole world was going to be flooded--hence the need to take two of every living species on board. And I disagree with your other statement. I don't think there is much evidence out there that corroborates specifically-bible stories, but the bible does interweave hsitorical occurences that have other sources of confirmation as well. What I mean is, you find find other sources that say Pontius Pilate existed, or that Solomon was a king, etc. But, you won't find ANY other source that recounts Noah's Ark, Job, the Red Sea story, the Tower of Babel, et al. Most of these stories are "fish tales" in that they are exaggerated and embellished accounts. Think the Bill Brasky sketch on SNL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Well, I didn't come from no damn monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Sounds interesting - wonder if there will be a special on Discovery about the quest afterwards... There was a show on Discovery about the search for the Ark, but this was a couple years ago. Saw it and would watch it if a new one was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 PA, not in any way to say SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT are terms I'd ever tag on to the vast majority of spiritually minded yet also simultaneously intelligent people. Just the SCARED, STUBBORN, AND IGNORANT ones (and they know who they are). I appreciate that you refrain from the evolutionary debates, but to casually toss around the 'man from monkeys' misconception while fully knowing it falsely represents evolutionary theory doesn't add anything of substance. I read ya buddy. That's why I really didn't want to discuss it all, but I just thought the logic was quite flawed. point stands, humans coming from the same line as monkeys seems fictional to some. I've taken a ton of anthropology, sociology, etc classes. I think that there are many similarities with humans and binobos, for instance. My problem is that there is clearly a seperation between "us and them." There is a clear seperation between us and homo habilis, homo erectus, and even sapien neaderthalus. I just don't know how writing just suddenly pops up out of no where around 5k year ago, as one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 But, you won't find ANY other source that recounts Noah's Ark, Job, the Red Sea story, the Tower of Babel, et al. Most of these stories are "fish tales" in that they are exaggerated and embellished accounts. Think the Bill Brasky sketch on SNL. During Lent I watched a program on the History Channel that said there's other texts that claim of a giant flood, not just the bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 During Lent I watched a program on the History Channel that said there's other texts that claim of a giant flood, not just the bible. A worldwide flood? I'd be interested in finding out what these other texts are. I'd like to see what their take on it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Late in his life, I can't find the exact quote but, Darwin even said that if you believe that all the perfection in the human body happened by chance without help from a supreme being, you're nuts. Exactly how I came to my beliefs - evolution started off by the Supreme Being of my choice. In an overly simplistic explanation of what I believe, it's sort of along the lines of baking a cake. In crude forms it starts out as eggs grain (flour), sugar, etc. Sit them on the table for as long as you like and nothing is going to happen. Add a person and an oven and evutually you will have a cake (or a mess lol). You need something as a catalyst for the whole thing - this is where I think God came in the picture. He started the process known as evolution, or so my theory goes. I admit, I stole that from a teacher I had in grammar school. Grammar school teachers....YES! (had to work the White Sox in there somehow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 During Lent I watched a program on the History Channel that said there's other texts that claim of a giant flood, not just the bible. Yes, I remember that - very good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 But the difference is there are historical documents that refer to an ark, a flood, etc. This is an entirely serious question. What historical (non-Biblical or non-quasi Biblical) references are there to the Ark or its mission are there? What historical or scientific references support a 40-day, 'worldwide' (yes, it would have been a small "world" back then) deluge? Again, I'm not asking sarcastically, I would greatly appreciate your pointing me in the direction of these sources because I would like to look into them. Some of the most amazing Creationist (or is it "Intelligent Voodoo Design" now?) slight of hand I have seen are references to climatalogical/geological 'anomalies' recorded on either short-term (i.e, last couple ice ages and maybe 100-200K years) or long-term (i.e., tectonic based changes over the last 260 million years) to try to bolster their "scientific" arguments. I've got a growing collection of Creationist pap that suggests that the Permean, K-T, and other extinction events are showed as evidence in support of a Great Flood? When Creationist doctrine itself doesn't allow that the planet os more than what, 10K years old or so? So, of course, accepted scientific dating methods are called into question as are the very constants pf the physical universe like the known rates of decay of various isotopes, BUT the physical evidence of fauna laid waste is held up in support of Biblical catastrophic events. It hardly even phases these authors that such evidence in support of a purported highly diverse ante-Deluvian fauna that suddenly becomes greatly impoverished and with the lost species NOT SHOWING UP AGAIN in the time and space of the fossil record or as modern species FLATLY CONTRADICTS suggestions that Noah and Co. did a very good job saving them all two-by-two and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Late in his life, I can't find the exact quote but, Darwin even said that if you believe that all the perfection in the human body happened by chance without help from a supreme being, you're nuts. I don't doubt the existance of God, I just don't believe any of the bible stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 This is an entirely serious question. What historical (non-Biblical or non-quasi Biblical) references are there to the Ark or its mission are there? What historical or scientific references support a 40-day, 'worldwide' (yes, it would have been a small "world" back then) deluge? Again, I'm not asking sarcastically, I would greatly appreciate your pointing me in the direction of these sources because I would like to look into them. I wish I could find them. I've been looking. They mentioned them on the HC program I watched. I just want to add that I'm on the fence about this and many stories in the Old Testament. I may be at odds with my church and with other Christians, but I don't believe the earth was created in just 7 days. I don't think we are all decendents of Adam and Eve. In my here and now world, it's hard to believe all of this. maybe my faith isn't strong enough. I DO believe the New Testament. I know I'll tak some heat on this for "picking and choosing," but that's how I feel. As far as my defense of this whole NOah/ark thing, I'm just going on what I've watched and read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 Exactly how I came to my beliefs - evolution started off by the Supreme Being of my choice. In an overly simplistic explanation of what I believe, it's sort of along the lines of baking a cake. In crude forms it starts out as eggs grain (flour), sugar, etc. Sit them on the table for as long as you like and nothing is going to happen. Add a person and an oven and evutually you will have a cake (or a mess lol). You need something as a catalyst for the whole thing - this is where I think God came in the picture. He started the process known as evolution, or so my theory goes. I admit, I stole that from a teacher I had in grammar school. Grammar school teachers....YES! (had to work the White Sox in there somehow) Ach! I take back your high marks, Kid! If your grade school teacher's take on things was a Mechanistic, Divine Hand setting it in motion, then there's still hope. If, on the other hand, the view is a teleological one (i.e., that humans or any other slice of evolutionary time were somehow a preordained end-point), then it is completely irreconcilable with modern evolutionary theory. Just enjoy being a happy accident, and being conscious of the incredible unlikelihood of our very existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted April 27, 2004 Share Posted April 27, 2004 homo erectus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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