Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Anyone wanna bet that Heredia or Loaiza opens the season as the 5th starter with Rauch in AAA? Unless Rauch is lights-out in ST or someone gets hurt, I'd almost guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 i kinda had a feeling that heredia gets that spot... dont know why but he keeps popping into my thought pattern when i think of our pitching staff....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Well, all signs right now point to it being Loiza's job to lose. Now I'm thinking Rauch is going to pitch damn good and will make the rotation. Thats just me hoping cause I want to see him there. I guarantee he's starting by May 1st though. The Sox may just want to have him in the minors for the first month if Loiza isn't going to be used much. Still, I see no point in holding Rauch back unless they think he needs another month. If thats the case, then I trust the organization. Now if they think Loiza is the better pitcher, then they are nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Significantly better than Heredia or Loaiza. Keep in mind that the 5th starter is not needed regularly in April, hence my feeling they will want Rauch to get regular work. We saw last year what happened when they put him in the bullpen and only pitched him once every 10 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Significantly better than Heredia or Loaiza. Keep in mind that the 5th starter is not needed regularly in April, hence my feeling they will want Rauch to get regular work. We saw last year what happened when they put him in the bullpen and only pitched him once every 10 days. Gotcha, here's to hoping Loaiza and Heredia having double digit ERA's and Rauch a solid 5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Significantly better than Heredia or Loaiza. Keep in mind that the 5th starter is not needed regularly in April, hence my feeling they will want Rauch to get regular work. We saw last year what happened when they put him in the bullpen and only pitched him once every 10 days. Man, were thinking alike tonight Hudler. I don't think Loiza or Heredia will have too much sucess in the hot air. Rauch's curve won't have near as much hook to it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt4evah Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I say Rauch will be 5th starter on opening day. The kid didn't do AWFUL last year, and for him being a player of the year in the minors I think its time for him to start paying off. I don't see Kenny Williams goin out to sign any more FA with the solid 1-2 of Buehrle and Colon, and the constant improving of Garland (cy young cough cough) and Wright. I think we can handle having Rauch start every other 5 games. Also, the bullpen will be able to eat up innings since Colon is a workhouse. (though so was ritchie, let us never speak his name again) Well thanks for everybody bein so nice n welcoming me! I'm only 16, my birthday was last sunday, haha anyways thanks everyone for a place I can talk to REAL Sox fans and not wrigley field fans or 3rd generation (is robin ventura still playing?) fans. Thanks again! Much love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 JM is going with 4 starters for the most part in the first month or so in the season....... you may see Heredia or Loaiza get a start or two and then Jon come up from AAA and take over from there on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Significantly better than Heredia or Loaiza. Keep in mind that the 5th starter is not needed regularly in April, hence my feeling they will want Rauch to get regular work. We saw last year what happened when they put him in the bullpen and only pitched him once every 10 days. Man, were thinking alike tonight Hudler. I don't think Loiza or Heredia will have too much sucess in the hot air. Rauch's curve won't have near as much hook to it either. just remember jas it will be cold still when they return here.........lol and our starting games are all in cold weather this time around... detroit, here, kc, no domes nor florida type weather till its hot here and by then who cares huh.......lol......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Just out of curiosity how well did Heredia pitch last year. I found Loaiza and that era of 5.71 does't look to good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 What's the definition of "lights out" in ST at Tucson? A sub 5 ERA? Significantly better than Heredia or Loaiza. Keep in mind that the 5th starter is not needed regularly in April, hence my feeling they will want Rauch to get regular work. We saw last year what happened when they put him in the bullpen and only pitched him once every 10 days. Man, were thinking alike tonight Hudler. I don't think Loiza or Heredia will have too much sucess in the hot air. Rauch's curve won't have near as much hook to it either. just remember jas it will be cold still when they return here.........lol and our starting games are all in cold weather this time around... detroit, here, kc, no domes nor florida type weather till its hot here and by then who cares huh.......lol......... The weather could very well be another reason the Sox won't bring Rauch up to start the season. First they figure the Sox are only going to use the 5th on rare occassions in the first month. Secondly it will be really cold. Why not let Rauch pitch in the warmth and get warmed up down in AAA and Spring Training and once May roles around and you start using the 5th full time you call him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 Still, I see no point in holding Rauch back unless they think he needs another month. If thats the case, then I trust the organization. Now if they think Loiza is the better pitcher, then they are nuts. I don't think it would be too far fetched to say that either Heredia or Loaiza is a better pitcher than Rauch at this point. Rauch's upside is far greater, but he has pitched a grand total of 8 games in the Majors. Loaiza, on the other hand, has started 32, 28, 15 (plus 15 appearance out of the pen), 31, 30 and 25 games in the six years. He hasn't been a great pitcher, but take his experience, our offense and project him against other 5th starters in the leagues. I think we would be in good shape. Heredia must have been hurt all last year, because I cannot find any numbers on him, including the Mexican League. He has made 128 career Major League starts with a 4.46 career ERA, so his experience is nothing to be laughed at either, especially if he is healthy. He has a couple of really nice years with Oakland. This is not a knock on Rauch, just shows the options we have. Rauch's time will come, but I am not convinced it will not be better served with at least another half year of AAA. Going slow with Crede seemed to work, Garland and Wright have had their growing pains, so why not be patient with Rauch if we have options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Still, I see no point in holding Rauch back unless they think he needs another month. If thats the case, then I trust the organization. Now if they think Loiza is the better pitcher, then they are nuts. I don't think it would be too far fetched to say that either Heredia or Loaiza is a better pitcher than Rauch at this point. Rauch's upside is far greater, but he has pitched a grand total of 8 games in the Majors. Loaiza, on the other hand, has started 32, 28, 15 (plus 15 appearance out of the pen), 31, 30 and 25 games in the six years. He hasn't been a great pitcher, but take his experience, our offense and project him against other 5th starters in the leagues. I think we would be in good shape. Heredia must have been hurt all last year, because I cannot find any numbers on him, including the Mexican League. He has made 128 career Major League starts with a 4.46 career ERA, so his experience is nothing to be laughed at either, especially if he is healthy. He has a couple of really nice years with Oakland. This is not a knock on Rauch, just shows the options we have. Rauch's time will come, but I am not convinced it will not be better served with at least another half year of AAA. Going slow with Crede seemed to work, Garland and Wright have had their growing pains, so why not be patient with Rauch if we have options? If I'm not mistaken Heredia was out of baseball last year. The year before he was with the A's and coming off a pretty good season, but then all heck broke lose and he fell apart. I don't think he even stuck with the A's for a full season he was so bad. He was a solid pitcher though for a couple years. The one good thing about Loiaza is that he has pretty solid stuff. From what Matthew said he's got a really hard fastball and some solid breaking stuff. Not to bad for a 5th starter considering he'd provide innings. Rauch is special though. He showed me enough late last season when he was finally healthy and even then his velocity wasn't quite where it was and he still wasn't back at full strength. This year he should be really good. I really think he could be ROY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 It might be all for the best to let Rauch start in AAA. The Sox's won't use there 5th starter that much at the start of the season, might as well keep Rauch fresh and prepare him to join the staff around the All-Star game (if he's doing well in AAA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 All I remember about Loaiza is he pitched on rehab last year in Birmingham and tossed 7.2 innings. Took him only 65 pitches to face 24 batters (that's one over the minimum for those of you scoring at home). Everytime we'd get a hit it took him about 2 pitches to get a DP ball. We hit into 3 or 4 if I recall. All of that and 50 cents will buy you a soda, coke, pop (not sure where everyone is from). I just think they would be better served starting Rauch in AAA and bringing him up when he is needed (or if) only if he is doing well. Why let a guy have growing pains in the Majors if you have another option and you are trying to win a pennant? Like I said, patience worked with Crede and probably would have worked better with Garland, Wright or even Kip Wells. Let's try something different and be patient with a pitcher this time. Esp. if you think Rauch will be a stud for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 All I remember about Loaiza is he pitched on rehab last year in Birmingham and tossed 7.2 innings. Took him only 65 pitches to face 24 batters (that's one over the minimum for those of you scoring at home). Everytime we'd get a hit it took him about 2 pitches to get a DP ball. We hit into 3 or 4 if I recall. All of that and 50 cents will buy you a soda, coke, pop (not sure where everyone is from). I just think they would be better served starting Rauch in AAA and bringing him up when he is needed (or if) only if he is doing well. Why let a guy have growing pains in the Majors if you have another option and you are trying to win a pennant? Like I said, patience worked with Crede and probably would have worked better with Garland, Wright or even Kip Wells. Let's try something different and be patient with a pitcher this time. Esp. if you think Rauch will be a stud for the long haul. Well a new pitching coach would of worked better with Kip, but a bit more time would of definately helped him. I like the fact that the Sox aren't rushing there players anymore. Olivo is kind of getting rushed, but he has the defensive abilities to fall back on, plus he isn't in a high pressure spot. Plus, it isn't too difficult to out hit MJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Well, from what I can see from reading these posts the #5 spot will be a great battle during Spring Training, but I will have to agree that keeping Rauch in AAA for a while will help him in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 I like the fact that the Sox aren't rushing there players anymore. Olivo is kind of getting rushed, but he has the defensive abilities to fall back on, plus he isn't in a high pressure spot. Plus, it isn't too difficult to out hit MJ. Chisxfn, keep in mind Olivo did two turns at AA, so he is not being as rushed as it first may seem. It is still a big jump, but he did get two full years of AB's in a pitcher's park and in a pitching dominated league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 If the fifth starter only gets 2 starts the entire month of April, the Rauch SHOULD start the season in AAA. Let him get his rythem, get his feet on the ground. He can have some success down there, come up in May and begin his ROY run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaSoxRox Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 If the fifth starter only gets 2 starts the entire month of April, the Rauch SHOULD start the season in AAA. Let him get his rythem, get his feet on the ground. He can have some success down there, come up in May and begin his ROY run. No problem as long as he doesn't have the expectation of staying up in April right from the beginning...if he thinks he's got a legitimate shot, does ok, and is told to head on down because we're going to go with a veteran....well, I think it could hurt his confidence somewhat....don't give him any false expectations if you are planning on starting him in aaa regardless of how he does in st....be upfront with him....imo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 If the fifth starter only gets 2 starts the entire month of April, the Rauch SHOULD start the season in AAA. Let him get his rythem, get his feet on the ground. He can have some success down there, come up in May and begin his ROY run. No problem as long as he doesn't have the expectation of staying up in April right from the beginning...if he thinks he's got a legitimate shot, does ok, and is told to head on down because we're going to go with a veteran....well, I think it could hurt his confidence somewhat....don't give him any false expectations if you are planning on starting him in aaa regardless of how he does in st....be upfront with him....imo.... I'll go along with that. They should be up front with him. Tell him to pitch 4 or 5 games in AAA, then we'll bring you up. Of course, that could backfire if Loaiza or Heredia or whoever is 3-0 with 1.69 ERA on May 1st. That would be a good problem to have, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 Tell him to pitch 4 or 5 games in AAA, then we'll bring you up. Of course, that could backfire if Loaiza or Heredia or whoever is 3-0 with 1.69 ERA on May 1st. That would be a good problem to have, though. That is exactly why they can't tell him any more than go to AAA pitch your ass off and your time will come. You can't promise a guy something or even say you intend to do something specific like that. What if Rauch is 1-2 with a 4.95 ERA in AAA? Do they feel pressured to bring him up at a certain point because of a "promise made"? Realistically, if Rauch goes to Charlotte, he could be in Chicago in May or not until September depending on what the 5th starter does and whether injuries occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 speaking of ST..why the hell are we in arizona??...our summer weather mimicks florida in march with both being at sea level and the humidity then pitching in arizona at a higher altitude adn in very dry air...if curve balls break alot ore here then they do in arizona doesnt it make it hard for the manager to tell who will be successful in chicago??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Rex, I totally agree with your thoughts on Rauch. The Sox did him a great disservice last year by taking him north with the team. He didn't find his groove until late in the year. If we look at the depth chart, this pitching staff is 15-16 deep ... STARTERS: Colon, Buerhle, Garland, Wright, Heredia, Loiaza, Rauch, Brian Cooper, maybe Malone RELIEVERS: Koch, Marte, Gordon, Wunsch, White, Glover, Ginter, Porzio, Sanders, Munoz, Almonte That's 20 guys right there, with 14 of them having significant major league service. A pretty deep staff. I'm still concerned about up the middle. Olivo is a rookie. Rowand is coming off a nasty injury, and may not be ready for Opening Day. Jimenez is unproven. Valentin has the great intangibles but is error prone. Harris looked really overmatched at the plate last year. Graffanino is coming off major knee surgery. Great teams are great up the middle ... the Sox have lots of question marks. More than anything, this may be the key to the '03 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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