Koch is no longer the closer...please

[Harry Chappas]

Wasn't that the third day in a row he has pitched and earned a save.

 

Nobody hit a ball in the air.

 

Didn't Marte blow a save Saturday which forced us to extra innings and then allow a run by allowing a runner to third with a wild pitch. I am not saying anything against Marte I like the way he has pitched but this is how it goes.

 

The guys on BBTN are morons. If that was another reliever they would have talked about the good at-bats by the O's hitters all three guys were down 1-2 and then fouled off pitches to draw walks. Koch has done a nice job, not Mariano Rivera but he is getting the job done. Last year he was getting pounded.

[cwsox]

Guys this is Ozzie style of managing at work here.  He wants to show confidence in his players, and see if that pulls them through.  I think we are already seeing the results early on in Jon Garland.  He looks like a totally different guy out there this year, and Ozzie sticking with him in pressure situations is why.  Billy Koch is our closer until further notice, like it or not.

that is an excellent point

 

it is getting the players toughened up mentally and emotionally for the big games in the season - every time they get through a rough situation and win, will make it easier the next time and especially when it could really mean something

[DBAHO]

Guys this is Ozzie style of managing at work here.  He wants to show confidence in his players, and see if that pulls them through.  I think we are already seeing the results early on in Jon Garland.  He looks like a totally different guy out there this year, and Ozzie sticking with him in pressure situations is why.  Billy Koch is our closer until further notice, like it or not.

We could always hav sum1 worse than Billy Koch. How about Matt Mantei?

[Texsox]

What save percentage are we accepting? 100% 99% or something more reasonable?

 

Closers are going to blow save opportunities, they are going to almost blow some save opportunities, and they will strike out the side. I believe Koch has done all three this year.

 

I do not want my closer trotting out to the mound thinking if he blows this save his season is over, at least not in May.

[Ozzietheairedale]

I don't understand the "he got the save so he's the closer" mentality. No good closer walks the bases loaded...ever.

 

The fact that hitters fouled off lots of good pitches is NOT proof the guy is a good closer, in fact, it's proof that he no longer has that overpowering fastball. Every mediocre hitter is going to keep doing just that to Koch. Alot of his pitches were not even close to the strike zone and I'm not sure Koch has any clue where half his pitches are going when he releases them.

 

I don't know who would be better on the team now. But a closer by committee is the way to go for now.

 

I'm not willing to wait until this guy spoils another team effort. Put a fork in him, he's done. :puke

[winninguglyin83]

Raise your hand if you want to go into the playoffs with Koch as your closer.

 

NO WAY!

 

Guillen says what he says because he's trying to pump Koch up -- and he knows he doesn't have a better alternative.

 

But ... if that ball would have gotten past Uribe last night, 99 percent of us would have been ready to run Koch out of town. And the first time he pulls one of his wild thing appearances and loses a big game against the Twinkies, the outrage will be monstrous.

 

Yes, Koch is the closer.

 

But, no, the Sox aren't going to do anything meaningful until either Koch improves or the Sox find a better option.

[slick03]

good closers get the job done....i dont care how its done..but it gets done

[Texsox]

Alot of his pitches were not even close to the strike zone and

Pitches-strikes:

Schoeneweis 107-69, 65% Strikes

Politte 10-9, 90% strikes

Marte 1-1, 100% strikes

Takatsu 2-1, 50% strikes

Koch 37-21, 57% strikes

 

I'm not certain what an acceptable ratio is.

 

As far as blown saves; Koch's big year 2002 he went 44 of 50 for a 88% conversion. I would assume some of those were close like yesterday.

 

I do know Foulke is 5 for 5 with an ERA below 1.0

[JUGGERNAUT]

Pitches-strikes:

Schoeneweis 107-69, 65% Strikes

Politte 10-9, 90% strikes

Marte 1-1, 100% strikes

Takatsu 2-1, 50% strikes

Koch 37-21, 57% strikes

 

I'm not certain what an acceptable ratio is.

 

As far as blown saves; Koch's big year 2002 he went 44 of 50 for a 88% conversion. I would assume some of those were close like yesterday.

 

I do know Foulke is 5 for 5 with an ERA below 1.0

If I may be so bold as to tell Ozzie what to do, I would stick with Koch .. but I would not leave him alone when he gets in trouble.

 

Do we all agree that Koch is a bit of a mental case?

If so then it's imperative you keep talking to him when things don't go his way.

 

Koch is going to give up walks. I explained why, but for those who didn't read back I'll say it again: He's a corner pitcher. If a hitter is routinely fouling off his corner pitches then Koch will either give up a hit or a walk. I prefer he gives up a walk.

 

What I don't want is you people messing with his mind & telling him not to be so fine on the corners. Because when that happens he comes over the plate more & gives up the big hit. I don't want that.

 

What bothered me last night is that it took 2 bowling pitches to get any body up & out there to talk to him. It was clear his mind imploded (so to speak) when BJ got the ball call on what would have been strike three. That was the mental fuse that melted Koch. Thank God for Uribe because he did exactly what I didn't want him to do : come over more on the plate.

 

In an ideal world, somebody goes out to talk to Koch as soon as the ump called ball on what should have been strike three. You have to quiet his mind when these things happen or else it will implode.

 

To his credit I will say that when he is in the right mind, Koch can hit the corners like nobody else in that bullpen.

 

But I still think moving Shingo into a setup/staged-closer position is a smart move because of his arsenal of pitches.

[Texsox]

If I may be so bold as to tell Ozzie what to do, I would stick with Koch .. but I would not leave him alone when he gets in trouble. 

 

Do we all agree that Koch is a bit of a mental case? 

If so then it's imperative you keep talking to him when things don't go his way.

 

Koch is going to give up walks.  I explained why, but for those who didn't read back I'll say it again:  He's a corner pitcher.  If a hitter is routinely fouling off his corner pitches then Koch will either give up a hit or a walk.  I prefer he gives up a walk.

 

What I don't want is you people messing with his mind & telling him not to be so fine on the corners. Because when that happens he comes over the plate more & gives up the big hit.  I don't want that.

 

What bothered me last night is that it took 2 bowling pitches to get any body up & out there to talk to him. It was clear his mind imploded (so to speak) when BJ got the ball call on what would have been strike three. That was the mental fuse that melted Koch.  Thank God for Uribe because he did exactly what I didn't want him to do : come over more on the plate.

 

In an ideal world, somebody goes out to talk to Koch as soon as the ump called ball on what should have been strike three. You have to quiet his mind when these things happen or else it will implode.

 

To his credit I will say that when he is in the right mind, Koch can hit the corners like nobody else in that bullpen.

 

But I still think moving Shingo into a setup/staged-closer position is a smart move because of his arsenal of pitches.

Good analysis.

 

I wonder what Ozzie would have done yesterday if he had Marte or Zero available for the 9th.

 

When I saw Koch trotting out there I knew it was his to save or lose. I couldn't see Oz pulling him for who?

[SoxFanForever]

I don't understand the "he got the save so he's the closer" mentality.  No good closer walks the bases loaded...ever. 

 

The fact that hitters fouled off lots of good pitches is NOT proof the guy is a good closer, in fact, it's proof that he no longer has that overpowering fastball.  Every mediocre hitter is going to keep doing just that to Koch.  Alot of his pitches were not even close to the strike zone and I'm not sure Koch has any clue where half his pitches are going when he releases them.

 

I don't know who would be better on the team now.  But a closer by committee is the way to go for now. 

 

I'm not willing to wait until this guy spoils another team effort.  Put a fork in him, he's done. :puke

No good closer walks the bases loaded ever or has a lot of men on base? I guess you never saw Bobby Thigpen.....you know, the guy with the season save record? I am not a Koch backer by any means but some of the greatest closers walked a fine line between getting the save and blowing it. That is just how it goes sometimes.

[Reddy]

right, there was no one warming because there was no point. I like the way Ozzie dealt with that situation, making sure Koch knew it was him or no one. So far I cant complain with his style of managing... its working

[cwsox]

In an ideal world, somebody goes out to talk to Koch as soon as the ump called ball on what should have been strike three. You have to quiet his mind when these things happen or else it will implode.

 

Excellent point.

[Reddy]

although that pitch was a strike, one he had called a strike earlier was most definitely a ball so that was just the ump being fair.

[Texsox]

although that pitch was a strike, one he had called a strike earlier was most definitely a ball so that was just the ump being fair.

I agree with the sentiment. The ump was balancing out bad calls.

However, fair is calling every pitch to the best of your ability, not trying to balance it out.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

The problem with the closer by committee idea with our staff is that the committee would basically suck. Marte seems reluctant to throw his fastball to lefties, Shingo has the dreaded stuff-deficiency disease, Jackson I don't know, Politte has 9th inningitis. Koch is killing me too, but this is a tough bullpen to manage after the 7th inning. (Kudos to Cotts and generally to Adkins.)

 

I think Ozzie is doing all a manager can with this assortment of not quite closers.

[mreye]

However, fair is calling every pitch to the best of your ability, not trying to balance it out.

Ding ding ding!

 

 

Great analysis!

[Ozzietheairedale]

No good closer walks the bases loaded ever or has a lot of men on base?  I guess you never saw Bobby Thigpen.....you know, the guy with the season save record?  I am not a Koch backer by any means but some of the greatest  closers walked a fine line between getting the save and blowing it.  That is just how it goes sometimes.

I definitely remember Thigpen. And let me say this - I saw Bobby Thigpen, Bobby Thigpen was a great reliever for the Sox. Billy Koch is no Bobby Thigpen. :puke

 

Can you recall a time when Thigpen walked the bases loaded in the ninth?

 

Also, try not to misquote me. I didn't say a great reliever doesn't occasionally have "a lot of men on base". I said a good reliever doesn't WALK THE BASES LOADED.

[kapkomet]

I definitely remember Thigpen.  And let me say this - I saw Bobby Thigpen, Bobby Thigpen was a great reliever for the Sox.  Billy Koch is no Bobby Thigpen. :puke

 

Can you recall a time when Thigpen walked the bases loaded in the ninth?

 

Also, try not to misquote me.  I didn't say a great reliever doesn't occasionally have "a lot of men on base".  I said a good reliever doesn't WALK THE BASES LOADED.

Exactly! That's what bugged me. If the dude gets hit, ok, it happens. But to walk the bases loaded and give up 2 unearned runs and almost a 3rd based solely on walking the bases loaded is :puke

[cwsox]

Billy Koch is no Bobby Thigpen.

Thigpen's last year with us and Koch's last year with us looked a lot the same at times

[T R U]

Seriously this is ridiculous..

 

The man went out and got the job done, he did what was asked of him... Thats all he is supposed to do dammit..

 

Why jump his ass? Its pointless... When you look at the final it says...

 

W - Schoeneweis (2-1)

L - DeJean (?-?)

S - Koch (4)

 

Thats all that matters, and sitting here b****ing about him is doing nothing but running you a greater risk of getting carpletunnel syndrom from wasted typing

[MurcieOne]

Im sorry to say it boys n gals, but William "Billy" Koch is the closer of this team, and his success or failure will have alot to do with the eventual record and place of this team.

 

We traded our all-star closer in the winter of 02 and we got this guy.... like it or not he's here and he's gotta be in the game in the 9th... and in the ninth he's gotta finish these games.

[SoxFanForever]

I definitely remember Thigpen.  And let me say this - I saw Bobby Thigpen, Bobby Thigpen was a great reliever for the Sox.  Billy Koch is no Bobby Thigpen. :puke

 

Can you recall a time when Thigpen walked the bases loaded in the ninth?

 

Also, try not to misquote me.  I didn't say a great reliever doesn't occasionally have "a lot of men on base".  I said a good reliever doesn't WALK THE BASES LOADED.

And if you quoted me right you would notice that I never said Koch was even close to Thigpen

[YASNY]

I'm sure Koch has experienced not getting a called strike he thought he deserved, I don't think that shook him up all that much. However, I think Koch is the type of pitcher that can't quite kick everything into gear with full focus until he gets into dire straits. He seems to be a better pitcher in a one run game than in a game with a 3 run lead. He also seems to better when he's put a couple of runners on base than he is with bases empty. Of course, that might be because he always allows baserunners. When's the last time Koch had a 1-2-3 inning?

[BrandoFan]

In an ideal world, somebody goes out to talk to Koch as soon as the ump called ball on what should have been strike three. You have to quiet his mind when these things happen or else it will implode.

 

You.have.got.to.be.joshing.me.here.

 

If Koch comes unglued because the ump (rightfully) didn't give him the second border-line call of the ab-bat in a May 2nd game....you might as well send him to AAA.

 

Compared to the pressure the Twins will be putting on him during the pennant race, and compared to sheer knee-buckling instensity of PLAYOFF baseball.....That 9th inning against Roberts and Surhoff with a 3-run lead was a walk (npi) in a park.

 

Koch blows, there is no way around it. He throws 92-94 when he needs to throw 96-100. Superior control is not something you learn at 29. Choker's mentality is not something Don Cooper can fix overnight. Koch is toast, and the sooner Sox realize that, the better.

 

Even Hawk Harrelson, who NEVER says anything remotely negative, went on the Score tonight and pretty much admitted that he has NO idea what Koch has to do to succeed as a closer; his tone did not convey anything remotely resembling confidence in Billy Blownsave. Hawk!

 

Politte and Marte should be the closing commitee for now. Perhaps a bonafied closer can be aquired at the deadline.