BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 When will it be OK to say without hesitation, without any self-deluding spin that Koch is just plain bad? When was it OK to say that about Todd Ritchie, Julio Ramirez, Jaimme Navarro, Armando Rios, Harold Baines, Danny Wright, Mike Caruso, Rick White, Greg Norton among many others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 bumping this one again -- As Billy is about to enter the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Billy Koch is no good. Please Oz, no more. I'm begging you. Everytime I see him come in the game, the same thing happens to me ---> a How lucky are we that we won this one too? Man oh man And on another note...11-1 in 1-run games sounds real f***ing good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Bring on Baj!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 everytime we see koch, we know we're in for some entertainment...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Billy Koch is no good. Please Oz, no more. I'm begging you. Just watch, there'll be homers defending him, using tonight as some kind of proof of his "grit".... And on another note...11-1 in 1-run games sounds real f***ing good Except, it's been statistically proven time and time again that no team can mantain that kind of success in 1-run games over the entire year. It's not as if we have Gagne and Foulke as 1-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Just watch, there'll be homers defending him, using tonight as some kind of proof of his "grit".... LMAO Except, it's been statistically proven time and time again that no team can mantain that kind of success in 1-run games over the entire year. It's not as if we have Gagne and Foulke as 1-2. It's also been proven that Koch giving up runs, be it blowing a save or giving up enough runs to give us a 1-run lead, has been a huge part in us winning these 1-run games. The only time it is good that you are that good in 1-run games is if your closer is doing the exact OPPOSITE of what Koch is doing, meaning he's nailing down 1-run games like it's a piece of cake(ala Gagne). Koch's ass has been bailed out too many times before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 All those morons who were kissing up to Koch's ass can kiss my ass too No way this moron will ever help us when it is pressure cooker time against the Twinkies, Yanks, BO Sox, Angels in the playoff race or the playoffs itself :fyou Botch....you f***ing suck jag bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 everytime we see koch, we know we're in for some entertainment...... understatement of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I guess I repost the question since nobody cared to asnwer it the first time.... When will it be OK to say without hesitation, without any self-deluding spin that Koch is just plain bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I guess I repost the question since nobody cared to asnwer it the first time.... It is ok right now in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I guess I repost the question since nobody cared to asnwer it the first time.... I guess when he actually blows a save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I guess when he actually blows a save. I used to feel that way. But now his ERA is probably over 6.00. You're closer CANNOT have an ERA over 6. That's not a closer, that's a lucky foooo. He still can't consistently get ahead of hitters, even after his pitching coach and manager drilled it into his head. With his weak fastball he needs to get ahead. I've seen enough. BTW, the team looked shaken while congratulating one another. I think that the team has seen enough too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I'll answer it this way. Do I have confidence in Koch? Not really. Has he done anything to lose his job as the closer? Not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I think he's done enough to be demoted from the closer role, even though he didn't blow a save in the Orioles series. He was one hit away from having a blown save tonight, and one nice play by Uribe from blowing 2 saves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 What makes me mad/sick, is that we all know the only way Koch is going to get out of the closers role is to blow some games, which we all know is pretty much inevitable. Ideally, KW swallows his pride and allows Ozzie to relegate Koch to blow-out duty. But we know this is White Sox we're talking about here; cheap, arrogant and short-sighted. So Koch stays and more smoke gets blown in our faces. Even Hawk can't defend this guy anymore. I'll say this much: it's better that he blow a save or 3 in May and subsequently gets CANNED than if he blows them in September and October. Since Politte and Marte are better as set-up men, a move HAS to be made at the All-Star Break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I think he's done enough to be demoted from the closer role, even though he didn't blow a save in the Orioles series. He was one hit away from having a blown save tonight, and one nice play by Uribe from blowing 2 saves I'm still not sure. My other problem is I don't see a clear cut option to replace him. Politte has a horrible track record as a closer. We can give Shingo a chance but who knows how that will go. I find Marte more valuable to the team as a set up man/closer. And I'm not a big proponent of the closer by committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I'm still not sure. My other problem is I don't see a clear cut option to replace him. Politte has a horrible track record as a closer. We can give Shingo a chance but who knows how that will go. I find Marte more valuable to the team as a set up man/closer. And I'm not a big proponent of the closer by committee. Aye, there's the rub. There isn't a better option in-house right now. But, I'll tell you the tapestry of profanities I weaved between Monday's 9th inning and tonight's regarding Koch's ineptitide frightened the wife and neighbors. My wife knows when Billy comes on just by hearing me swearing at the television from the other room. Tonight she matter-of-factly said, "Doesn't the manager get that he's just plain bad?" I had no response, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I disagree. I think tonight was a substantial improvement in the handling of Crotch. Olivo made 2 trips. Showing that he's not afraid to interrupt Crotchy. Tonight was similar to last night only in reverse. Last night he was getting all the inside corner pitches for strikes. Tonight he wasn't getting the outside corner pitches for strikes. He was beginning to unravel when Olivo calmed him down. After the 2nd trip, Koch came in on the plate just a little bit & was able to get weak hits to end the inning. I thought that was big. The pitch that went to right was a tough one to hit. It would have been called a ball as it was both too high & outside, but Tejada creamed it any way. I think Magglio should have been able to make a play because it dropped right in front of his feet. That's usually a sign of a late jump. There will be some nights when he gets both corners called for strikes & those will be the nights we don't need prep-H. But when that's not the case as long as the SOX learn how to deal with him mentally he can still be an effective closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 My wife knows when Billy comes on just by hearing me swearing at the television from the other room. Tonight she matter-of-factly said, "Doesn't the manager get that he's just plain bad?" I had no response, of course I like your wife already. Ozzie may or may not be a good manager when it's all said and done.....but he's been around baseball long enough to know that Koch is bad. However, there are economic realities and politics that a rookie like Ozzie knows not to mess with. If Sox had an alternative or Koch was making 4-5 Mill less, we wouldn't have this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I disagree. I think tonight was a substantial improvement in the handling of Crotch. Olivo made 2 trips. Showing that he's not afraid to interrupt Crotchy. Tonight was similar to last night only in reverse. Last night he was getting all the inside corner pitches for strikes. Tonight he wasn't getting the outside corner pitches for strikes. He was beginning to unravel when Olivo calmed him down. After the 2nd trip, Koch came in on the plate just a little bit & was able to get weak hits to end the inning. I thought that was big. The pitch that went to right was a tough one to hit. It would have been called a ball as it was both too high & outside, but Tejada creamed it any way. I think Magglio should have been able to make a play because it dropped right in front of his feet. That's usually a sign of a late jump. There will be some nights when he gets both corners called for strikes & those will be the nights we don't need prep-H. But when that's not the case as long as the SOX learn how to deal with him mentally he can still be an effective closer. Do you even believe half the stuff you just wrote? The low expectationitis acutus is what gets to me. After 2001-2003 and the disappointing off-season, it rears its ugly head in almost every thread -- from pretending that Willie Harris is gonna lead us to the promised land, to the Kelly Dranfelt Mania after he blooped a couple of mistakes to RF, to lauding Danny Wright's "breakthrough" 2002 season, to total satisfaction with Joe Crede's performance, etc, etc, etc, etc. Here we are making a slew of silly excuses for a loser who basically cost us the entire 2003 season and is already up to 5.60 ERA -- in low-pressure games of April-early May! You wanna hang out wit da big dawgs in post-season? You wanna build on that and become the Indians of the 2000's? Then recognize that Koch is garbage, cut your losses and move the f*** on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Two games ago he had thrown 7/1/3 scoreless had he not. And today he didn't have the ball hit hard. He had a single drop in front of Maggs because Maggs was playing incredibly deep. The walk kicked his but, but I'm not near ready to give up on Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greppson24ottondo Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 not every one of botch's save situations will include a two or three run cushion. on sunday he came in with a one run lead and he was able to dominate after the lead-off single. is it just his nature to step it up when the gap narrows or is he just plain lucky. personally i think he is getting lucky as hell, and once he comes in to a few save situations with only one run leads he'll be in SERIOUS trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Two games ago he had thrown 7/1/3 scoreless had he not. And today he didn't have the ball hit hard. He had a single drop in front of Maggs because Maggs was playing incredibly deep. The walk kicked his but, but I'm not near ready to give up on Koch. He has also had the bases loaded the past two times he "earned" a save. That, to me does not bode well for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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