Starting Lineup?

[knightni]

Jose most likely will play no matter how Willie and Juan are playing.

 

Would they consider moving Valentin to 3b sometimes?

 

Also, would Lee benefit more if they moved him to #3 in the batting order?

 

I could see a lineup like this:

 

 

1. Uribe ss (lots of hits, always on base)

2. Harris 2b (quick, but doesn't hit as well... would be perfect to sacrifice Uribe to 2nd or bunt hit in the 2nd hole)

3. Lee lf (pretty fast still, needs someone hitting behind him so he can see better pitches)

4. Thomas dh (good opportunity for RBIs in #4)

5. Ordonez rf (good speed, can protect Thomas from so many walks)

6. Konerko 1b (good RBI opportunities at #6)

7. Valentin 3b (decent speed, can get on base when needed)

8. Rowand cf (some speed, picking up the hitting)

9. Olivo c (showing power, good speed for a catcher, can get on base and not clog them up for the #1 and #2 guys)

 

Crede can come in and play for Valentin and move Valentin back to ss and bench Harris on occasion. Or move Willie to the cf sometimes and bench Rowand.

 

Any thoughts?

[T R U]

Heres a thought...

 

16 - 9

 

why come in and take away the fastest player on the team who IS batting over .280 right now and bench him???

 

I say, if the Sox are smart, Valentin is out of luck and benched.. theres now way you f*** with this teams chemistry right now.. were on a tear and if you mess it all up it could be costly..

 

The teams playing good, Valentin will have to sit till there is reason to bench either Harris or Uribe, and right now I see no reason to do either... Whats that gonna do for Willies confidence?? Hes starting to hit and then gets benched, it would hurt his progress, definatley

[Rowand44]

Jose most likely will play no matter how Willie and Juan are playing.

 

Would they consider moving Valentin to 3b sometimes?

 

Also, would Lee benefit more if they moved him to #3 in the batting order?

 

I could see a lineup like this:

 

 

1. Uribe ss (lots of hits, always on base)

2. Harris 2b (quick, but doesn't hit as well... would be perfect to sacrifice Uribe to 2nd or bunt hit in the 2nd hole)

3. Lee lf (pretty fast still, needs someone hitting behind him so he can see better pitches)

4. Thomas dh (good opportunity for RBIs in #4)

5. Ordonez rf (good speed, can protect Thomas from so many walks)

6. Konerko 1b (good RBI opportunities at #6)

7. Valentin 3b (decent speed, can get on base when needed)

8. Rowand cf (some speed, picking up the hitting)

9. Olivo c (showing power, good speed for a catcher, can get on base and not clog them up for the #1 and #2 guys)

 

Crede can come in and play for Valentin and move Valentin back to ss and bench Harris on occasion. Or move Willie to the cf sometimes and bench Rowand.

 

Any thoughts?

So many people bashed jm for tinkering with positions and lineups(myself included) it seems all the sudden people on this board want the sox to tinker with their lineup, leave the damn thing alone, they're 16 and 9, Joe Crede is our 3b. The one thing i see as a good possibility is moving willie to cf when Jose comes back, but please leave Joe alone.

[T R U]

I wouldnt mind seeing Willie in CF because its clear Rowand has sucked it up..

 

ALSO

 

Willie has no errors this year, the mans playing some good baseball

[witesoxfan]

I'll spare the trade Lee banter(though that is probably the best way to handle it IMO).

 

Willie can play CF, Uribe and Jose can play 3B, Rowand can play LF...there is no doubt in my mind consistent playing time can be had for these players.

[1549]

Definately too early for trade talk...especially when we are playing well.

 

I would like to see the lineup remain exactly the same when Jose comes back.

[knightni]

My reasoning for the whole thread is:

 

#1, Valentin is a power left handed batter that the Sox need to get back in the lineup.

 

How do you do that? By moving the good hitters?

 

No, by benching people like Crede or Rowand that are struggling and batting under .240.

 

Valentin helped the Sox get to 16-9.

 

Just because Ozzie is superstitious doesn't mean that change is bad.

 

He has to get back in the lineup.

 

 

 

#2, Lee is struggling and Maggs' batting average has slumped.

 

Lee needs more protection to return to his '03 form.

 

A little adjustment to the batting order is no huge issue.

 

 

#3, The best leadoff guys are the ones that have good SB potential but great OBP.

 

Uribe is that guy right now.

 

Harris is improving a lot in his bunting and can really be of use to the Sox as a sacrifice bunter at #2 to move Uribe over.

 

 

 

The Marlins won with Pierre leading off and Castillo batting second.

 

The Cardinals succeeded with Vina leading off and Renteria batting #2.

 

The Sox need to keep Uribe AND Harris in the lineup at the top.

 

(But Valentin's lefty bat also needs to be back in.)

[Chisoxfn]

I'll spare the trade talk for now, but I'd do all I can to amke sure Jose, Juan and Willie get consistent playing time. Willie is the leadoff hitter and I want him in their every day or damn near every day. He should replace Timo as the part time centerifelder while also playing 2nd base often. Juan should play 2nd and fill in at short.

 

I wouldn't get too adamant about trading Lee just yet. He'll heat up.

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't get too adamant about trading Lee just yet.  He'll heat up.

I'm not really concerned about him heating up...we all know that will happen. I'm more concerned about .300 30 110 with very little plate discipline for $6 mill, let alone the $9 mill he'll make next year. That and the fact that a spot almost has to be cleared for Jeremy Reed when he is ready.

 

If come June the M's are out of it, I would personally look to trade Lee to Seattle for Garcia/Piniero. Garcia seems to be pitching real damn well this year(though he is 0-1 this year, his ERA is 2.27 and his WHIP is 1.15, BAA is .234, K/9 is around 6.3 and K/BB is around 3 in 35.6 innings)

 

But enough of that...get Jose, Willie, and Juan in there consistently. Call it Oz's first challenge.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree at the end of the season the Sox will be choosing between Lee and Maggs. However, what if the choice ended up being between Lee and Konerko. Both will be due pretty good money and if Konerko has a good year he will also be marketable.

 

I think as of now, the Sox will hold, but I'd look for KW to be agressive if a player is out their to really put this team over the top.

[BrandoFan]

I'm not really concerned about him heating up...we all know that will happen. I'm more concerned about .300 30 110 with very little plate discipline for $6 mill, let alone the $9 mill he'll make next year. That and the fact that a spot almost has to be cleared for Jeremy Reed when he is ready.

 

It's not that 100 RBI isn't worth 6 Mill -- it probably is. Obviously I liked Carlos at 4.2 Mill last year a little more, but I wouldn't say he is totally overpaid either.

 

However, when we're talking about 9 Mill next year, his 825 OPS ain't gonna get it done -- esp when Jeremy Reed might be ready to put up similar #s with better defense and speed by 2005 at a fraction of that.

 

That's just economic reality rolled into common sense.

 

You can overpay a little for Maggs and Thomas because they are the faces of your franchise, but everybody else must step up NOW or be gone.

 

If Seattle could survive Griffey, Unit and A-Rod and if Oakland can live without Giambi, Justice and Tejada and if Texas can kick ass without A-Rod, Palmeiro, Gonzo and Everett.......there will be life without Carlos. Hopefully he breaks out this year to the tune of 130 RBI/900+ OPS and stays, but if he doesn't....oh well.

[witesoxfan]

I agree at the end of the season the Sox will be choosing between Lee and Maggs.  However, what if the choice ended up being between Lee and Konerko.  Both will be due pretty good money and if Konerko has a good year he will also be marketable. 

 

I think as of now, the Sox will hold, but I'd look for KW to be agressive if a player is out their to really put this team over the top.

Choosing between Lee and Konerko is somewhat difficult, atleast to me anyways. You will almost always get .280 25 100 .850 out of Konerko, and with Lee you can get .300 30 100 .830 with 20 steals, or you can get .260 25 80 .850 with 5 steals.

 

It's a hard choice, to me atleast. Not a big fan of station-to-station baserunning(which is exactly what Konerko brings to the table), but I'm not a big fan of bad plate discipline either, which is where this gets even harder. Konerko walks about 50 times a year, and usually has an OBP of around .350-.360. Lee, on the other hand, walks either 37 times a year, or he walks 75 times...in '00, '01, and '03, he walked 38, 38, and 37 times respectively, but in '02, he walked 75 times. All I can do is go . Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Lee could easily be one of the better yound hitters in the league very soon...Manny Ramirez-like...if only he could draw a walk and had good plate discipline. Because of that lack of discipline, he may only become a Dmitri Young-type player at his very best, and while Young is a solid ballplayer, he is not one of the best hitters in the league. Meanwhile, Konerko seems like he could be a player that, if he ever puts two good halfs together, could hit 30-35 homers, hit .310, and drive in 110-120 while having a .950 OPS. Real hard to judge at this point, IMO.

 

I think the Sox would have to be looking at moving Lee with Reed coming up like he has. I haven't seen Reed play, so I don't know what kind of range or arm he has, but I assume putting him in LF initially would not hurt him. However, I do not believe he can play 1B, which would be a reason we keep Konerko.

 

 

Anyways, I have no doubt that if needed, KW will get what is necessary. He seems to always be a player at the break, be it buying or selling. We'll see moves, and I can guarantee that.

[Rowand44]

Choosing between Lee and Konerko is somewhat difficult, atleast to me anyways.  You will almost always get .280 25 100 .850 out of Konerko, and with Lee you can get .300 30 100 .830 with 20 steals, or you can get .260 25 80 .850 with 5 steals. 

 

It's a hard choice, to me atleast.  Not a big fan of station-to-station baserunning(which is exactly what Konerko brings to the table), but I'm not a big fan of bad plate discipline either, which is where this gets even harder.  Konerko walks about 50 times a year, and usually has an OBP of around .350-.360.  Lee, on the other hand, walks either 37 times a year, or he walks 75 times...in '00, '01, and '03, he walked 38, 38, and 37 times respectively, but in '02, he walked 75 times.  All I can do is go  .  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Lee could easily be one of the better yound hitters in the league very soon...Manny Ramirez-like...if only he could draw a walk and had good plate discipline.  Because of that lack of discipline, he may only become a Dmitri Young-type player at his very best, and while Young is a solid ballplayer, he is not one of the best hitters in the league.  Meanwhile, Konerko seems like he could be a player that, if he ever puts two good halfs together, could hit 30-35 homers, hit .310, and drive in 110-120 while having a .950 OPS.  Real hard to judge at this point, IMO.

 

I think the Sox would have to be looking at moving Lee with Reed coming up like he has.  I haven't seen Reed play, so I don't know what kind of range or arm he has, but I assume putting him in LF initially would not hurt him.  However, I do not believe he can play 1B, which would be a reason we keep Konerko.

 

 

Anyways, I have no doubt that if needed, KW will get what is necessary.  He seems to always be a player at the break, be it buying or selling.  We'll see moves, and I can guarantee that.

I agree that choosing between clee and pauly is real tough. It's actually an odd situation, because 2 offseasons ago when there were rumors that the sox might trade pauly for russ ortiz nobody wanted that, but if it was carlos everyone was fine with it, now this offseason there were the rumors with perez and everyone was in favor of getting rid of pauly, but no one wanted to get rid of carlos, with those two it's just an odd situation.

[BobDylan]

This topic has been and is being discussed in the hot topic...

[SkokieSox]

I wouldnt mind seeing Willie in CF because its clear Rowand has sucked it up..

 

ALSO

 

Willie has no errors this year, the mans playing some good baseball

Then why take him out of his comfort zone. The man is a second baseman, and that's where he is at his best. Although I still think Rowand is a pretty decent player, if I'm going to make a CF change, it's going to be with Reed. Remember, Rowand is a left fielder forced into playing CF based on need. Putting Willie is essentially doing the same thing done to Rowand. Willie is better off staying where he's at.

[BrandoFan]

Choosing between Lee and Konerko is somewhat difficult, atleast to me anyways.  You will almost always get .280 25 100 .850 out of Konerko, and with Lee you can get .300 30 100 .830 with 20 steals, or you can get .260 25 80 .850 with 5 steals. 

 

It's a hard choice, to me atleast.  Not a big fan of station-to-station baserunning(which is exactly what Konerko brings to the table), but I'm not a big fan of bad plate discipline either, which is where this gets even harder.  Konerko walks about 50 times a year, and usually has an OBP of around .350-.360.  Lee, on the other hand, walks either 37 times a year, or he walks 75 times...in '00, '01, and '03, he walked 38, 38, and 37 times respectively, but in '02, he walked 75 times.  All I can do is go  .  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Lee could easily be one of the better yound hitters in the league very soon...Manny Ramirez-like...if only he could draw a walk and had good plate discipline.  Because of that lack of discipline, he may only become a Dmitri Young-type player at his very best, and while Young is a solid ballplayer, he is not one of the best hitters in the league.  Meanwhile, Konerko seems like he could be a player that, if he ever puts two good halfs together, could hit 30-35 homers, hit .310, and drive in 110-120 while having a .950 OPS.  Real hard to judge at this point, IMO.

 

I think the Sox would have to be looking at moving Lee with Reed coming up like he has.  I haven't seen Reed play, so I don't know what kind of range or arm he has, but I assume putting him in LF initially would not hurt him.  However, I do not believe he can play 1B, which would be a reason we keep Konerko.

 

 

Anyways, I have no doubt that if needed, KW will get what is necessary.  He seems to always be a player at the break, be it buying or selling.  We'll see moves, and I can guarantee that.

Why do you have to choose? Konerko should be gotten rid of the sooner the better and Lee is the one who either break-outs in 2004 or becomes very expendable in 2005. This isn't 2000 when both were grossely underpaid.

 

Mentioning Lee in the same sentence as Manny Ramirez is not right. I feel Manny's cancer-esque personality stunted his growth a few years ago, but even so --he is still one of the deadliest run producers in all of baseball. He was already kicking major ass when he was Lee's age. I gave up on BabyRamirez back in 2002.