America's Culture War

[JUGGERNAUT]

This is yet another sign that America is indeed in the midst of a culture war back home.

First I want to say that not only is this appauling & disgusting but it is likewise the dumbest thing I have ever witnessed from a female Brig General.

 

It is HER JOB to know what is GOING on with the troops that serve UNDER her.

It is HER JOB to establish the standards & procedures for action & treatment of prisoners that fall under the CARE of her troops.

There is ownership & accountability of responsibility in the military like no other institution. The evidence seems crystal clear not so much by the pyramid stacking but more so by the female smoking a cigarette, laughing, & boozing it up. Like it's some accomplishment for her.

 

I will not be happy with just Federal prison time for these sadists.

I want every facet of their adult lives displayed before the public.

IMO, if you engage in such acts then you forfeit your rights to privacy.

 

I am equally appauled by some comments from College students , sorority, & fraternity alumni suggesting this was not torture but light hazing. Though that

may be true by the acts occuring on our campuses this only further illustrates the

stupidity of their comments by equating prisoners of war to pledges.

 

What is the world to think when they hear the stories, see the hazing on Oprah, listen to how America's youth seems to accept & tolerate it, & then see it reflected on the treatment of prisoners of war?

 

That is why this is much bigger than Iraq. This is a culture war.

 

America used to be a God praying country that had both reverence & respect for human rights, public decency, & a moral & virtuous life. Today it is clearly divided between those who want America to turn back to that tradition & those who want America become a greater pool of sin & decadence & debauchery.

 

This is why it is imperative that the investigation interview the backgrounds, education, & people that influenced these sadists lives. The American people

need to know the causes behind not only these persons behavior but likewise their

mindsets. When I heard that private contractors were involved as well there is no

question this is a lot bigger than just inquisition techniques.

 

This comes on the heels of some very bad news about America in general.

Why would any country believe us when they need only turn on their TV

the week before & learn on Prime Time that the majority of America's students cheat & life their way thru school. They see a country where students take text messaging cell phones into tests (incl the SAT, & ACT) & the proctors & teachers allow it. They see a country where students pay for papers to be written for them in both the high school & college level. What does the rest of the world think when EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE KIDS interviewed refers to Clinton's words over the Monica affair?

 

Is Clinton's real legacy to be the biggest generation of cheats & liars?

 

It shocks me when these same kids graduate with high grades & then wonder why legal research work is being farmed out to Bombay. Perhaps a firm isn't too impressed with a 3.5 gpa JD grad that can't write a legible research paper.

 

================================

 

What the world sees is an America that is being slowly driven by the Godless.

What is the Arab world to think when a high school in Broward county purposefully schedules a trip to Disney world during gay pride week? Never mind the fact that their are eye-witness reports of groping & other acts of public indecency occuring at the park in that week by gays & lesbians. Shouldn't the parents of those childrens

been allowed to elect the day the school should take the trip? Why should morally consciencable students be forced to choose between trip & no-trip?

 

================================

 

I'm sick & tired of listening to the useless crap that comes out of the mind of the Godless. We are now experiencing a country of adults that are products of an education system that has tried to be Godless. The results? The majority of them are completely clueless of what is considered morally decent behavior. The majority of them do not feel the US Justice system is an effective deterent to enforce morally decent behavior.

 

So what is the answer? The God driven people of America today understand the importance of freedom in America so they are more concerned in protecting their freedoms than limiting others. But there is an answer. Rights to privacy. If people

can not govern themselves toward public decency & moral behavior that respects human rights then they should be subjected to losing their rights to privacy. When something like this happens the people involved should be treated as the sex offenders they are. Whenever you force any persons into nakedness you have crossed the line into being a sex offender. Especially when you take delight in their humiliation.

 

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Often I hear the dumb arse lame excuse from legal persons that fetishes are acceptable when two persons consent. Again such a statement shows their ignorance. Perhaps they are of the cheating ilk that never bothered to do any research on their own. The basic question to ask in all of these acts is what constitutes consent? This applies to hazing as well at both high schools, & colleges.

The intelligent, rational mind considers consent a decision arrived by a well-informed adult over a period of time in which that adult can both research & inquire upon the effects of his/her decision. A simple spur of the moment yes or no should never constitute consent.

 

Any one who has bothered to take some sociology & psychology classes in college

(and of course wrote their own research papers) would know that there are many forms of stress & pressure that can be wielded by another individual, group, or institution to coerce a form of consent. Consent can only be respected when the decision is made AWAY from such influences.

 

Now the reason why I am mentioning this is because of the mindset portrayed in those pictures. It is the celebratory context of some of them which indicates a major breakdown in the education (both school & life) of these grunts. America has a right to know what influences in their lives brought them to take delight in the suffering of others.

 

================================

 

With respect to America's culture war it's time to bring God back to the class room.

If the majority of students & parents want God in the class room then it can be no worse then what is occuring in those schools today. The majority should have the final say. Tolerance should not include cohersion. Yet that is exactly what is being enacted in schools in America today. Cohersion to accept the gay & lesbian lifestyle, cohersion to accept a porn like way of life, & cohersion to eliminate all mention of God from America.

 

I recall Lenon's famous lyrics .. imagine a world without religion. I need only look to the decay in American soceity to see a clear picture of that. A world w/out religion doesn't work. Religion is not an opium of the people as some suggest. It is not a crutch either. It is in it's idealic sense an institution of trust that is beyond the animallistic nature of mankind. That's what Religion is. Without it, there is nothing but rule of law to guard against that nature. We have 30 years of history now in America to see clearly that is not enough. What happens over time is a Godless

moralless nation loses respect for the rule of law. We see that clearly in America today.

 

But of course those that made the statements including Lenon himself never bothered to invest the time or energy into studying psychology & sociology

in the world today. What Freud hypothesized (because he had little means to

conduct clinical trials) can fit in one semester of a psych degree. That's called

progress. Developing a wiser knowledgebase over time. It stands in stark contrast

to talking from the hip.

[BrandoFan]

You're right, American couture wars get reeeaal ugly. Downfall of the Fabulous is upon us. Scary stuff.

[Controlled Chaos]

I agree with most of your post. Clearly, it has been shown that removing some of the principals that this country was founded upon has influenced the degradation of our society.

[southsider2k5]

Where did you cut and paste this stuff from?

[JUGGERNAUT]

There are so MANY problems in America today that DID NOT exist prior to the 1960's.

It was at that time when the public education system began removing God from the class room & consequently added pressure on private education systems to curtail morality lessons from the class room.

 

An example is malpractice suits.

The problem: The rising costs of malpractice insurance is driving the low numbers of doctors in America to dangerously low levels in states like IL.

The right-wing: Cap all mal-practice insurance.

The left-wing: Leave it as is.

 

The moderate: The courts should recognize a capitalistic answer to this problem: varying levels of malpractice caps. Don't legislate the caps but rather let the patient & doctor's agree in writing on the levels of the cap. Now you let supply & demand forces decide on what a tolerable cap level is.

 

The problem in America is that the moderate doesn't get a voice any more.

 

Now you ask how does this relate to God & Godless? Because any person who practices reverenance to God will try to balance the two sides. Realizing the irresponsibility befitting society to allow greed to lower the number of practicing physicians & nurses in America. A Godless person has no motivation other than their own ability to obtain medical care to consider this.

 

Now for the lawyers that visit this thread, when I make general statements I am referring to a BY & LARGE context (better than just a majority).

 

=========================================

Abortion of course is at the central point of this culture war. Without discussing a 30 yr history how much longer will abortion advocates cling to their only crutch that a fetus is not a human being WHEN .. in yrs to come .. medical science will be able to guarantee a better than 90% probability that a fetus will become a human being?

 

In otherwords if science (the state) is able to incubate a fetus with as good or better than a woman then where do you draw the line as to when human life begins? We already have physical evidence indicating brain activity after 6 wks! When does a right choose become a right to kill?

 

This is a very complex question to answer because each year medical science redefines the basis of human life. Recently 5 embryos were grown from stem cells to help treat an ailiing boy in Chicago. Now you can hide behind any legal jargon you want but the bottom line is that science provides us the ability to clone ourselves

to varying degrees of re-production to sustain ourselves? Is it moral to kill versions of ourselves to sustain our eldest version? This is not science-fiction any more.

This is near term future.

 

The evidence is over-whelming that if we continue on a path toward negating God from public life that these new problems of conscience will ultimately ruin our country. I usually keep silent on these things but that picture of her smiling over her handiwork was too much to bear.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Rummsfeld should resign over this. He has no excuse for sitting on this so long & as sec of defense it's his job to oversee the conduct of the generals that serve beneath him.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Wait, Jug, what portions of that post were the comments made by the Brig General and what were yours?

 

edit: nm

[BrandoFan]

A simple spur of the moment yes or no should never constitute consent.

 

That's right. The Godless skank shouldn't say 'NO!' before researching and inquiring upon the effects of such decision. Those effects may include, but not be limited to, buying a rum bottle upside that pweeetty heeeeyd.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Where did you cut and paste this stuff from?

A site without a spellchecker?

[FlaSoxxJim]

One of the "Godless" here, Juggs.

 

I promise you I am every bit as outraged by the Iraqi prisoner abuse as you are. Ditto for the disintegrating academic standards and integrity in America.

 

But you go off the deep-end (and then some) when you suggest that these are symptoms of an underlying problem of "Godlessness" in our society. 80% of Americans state that they belong to an organized faith and half of these claim to be regular church-attending practitioners. The vast majority of these are Christians. If the backgrounds of the abusers in the Iraqi prison were examined I suspect you would find a similar breakdown.

 

Sure, you can argue that calling yourself a Christian and truly being one are often wholly different matters, and I will agree with you (although I refuse to accept anyone as having the authority to deem who or what a "true Christian" is).

 

But the solution to all the woes of modern American life is not to take militant steps to put God into (or back into) our schools, our government, our lives. There are myriad reasons society is in the shape it's in, and a lot of them have more to do with human greed, laziness, the economic realities of two working parents and their latch-key kids, etc., than how much time we spend offering our lives and works up to a Divine Agent that may or may not be up there to take our calls.

 

I concur that maybe the Broward school trip to Disney during next week's Gay Days is more agenda than the diverse student body and their parents should be asked to swallow. I commend the administrator(s) who want to expand the minds of the straight and narrow, but there should be an alternative and equally fun trip for the students who don't want to go. At the same time, "What is the Arab world to think when a high school in Broward county purposefully schedules a trip to Disney world during gay pride week?" Are you serious??? I can tell you how much press coverage this earth-shattering story is going to get in the Arab world.

 

[incidentally, I will be taking my wife and kids out this weekend to attend our fourth consecutive Gay Day at Disney. Being part of the straight-not narrow crowd, I feel it is important to show my support for both the gay community and for Disney who allows (while not officially sponsoring or sanctioning) the event despite lots of pressure and protest from the fundamentalist religiosos. My kids give the whole thing not a second glance or thought, as it should be, as they drag me onto the Pirates of the Caribbean ride for the 15th time...]

 

But Juggs, what about this GLARING DOUBLE STANDARD?:

 

With respect to America's culture war it's time to bring God back to the class room.  If the majority of students & parents want God in the class room then it can be no worse then what is occuring [sic] in those schools today.

 

If you're concerned about forcibly exposing the minds and immortal souls of the straight and narrow to the horrors of Gay Days at Disney, then why are you not equally upset by the prospect of unilaterally cramming whitebread Christianity down the throats of all students? Many of whom are not Christian and don't care to be bombarded by all the Fear of God claptrap. Others do come from Christian families but the families rightly realize that home and the church community are the more appropriate stewards of Junior's Godly upbringing than the homeroom teacher at P.S. 159.

 

Your statement, "tolerance should not include cohersion [sic]" seems not to apply if all we are talking about coercion to force-feed children some government-approved Christian doctrine when they should be learning about math and science and history – including high points of Christian ideology like the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, the Holocaust.

 

I enjoyed the statement, " I recall Lenon's [sic] famous lyrics .. imagine a world without religion" – mostly because you obviously do not recall them at all.

 

Imagine there's no heaven, It's easy if you try. No hell below us, Above us only sky...

 

Imagine there's no countries, It isnt hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, No religion too...

 

Lennon also said, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" (and bad marks to all who didn't peg that one when posted last week – CW and SS2k4 I'm looking in your direction...). I find little in today's world to suggest John was very far off on that one.

[JUGGERNAUT]

That's right. She shouldn't say 'NO!' before researching and inquiring upon the effects of such decision. Those effects may include, but not be limited to, buying a rum bottle upside that pweeetty heeeeyd. 

Especially when there now exists a FOUNTAIN of clinical research reports indicating that the powers of suggestion increase significantly with drug & alcohol use.

 

If you want a prisoner to talk you need not subject them to humiliation through nakedness & pyramid stacking. You simply need to inject them with drugs &/or alcohol. I've read (but can not attest to) reports that drinks injected directly into the colon (via needles) is many times more effective to becoming drunk then drinking itself.

 

And it's a fact that as people become drunk they become more open to suggestion. Especially in answering personal questions or any questions that bear some stress on that person in a normal context.

[BrandoFan]

Lennon also said, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"

 

Lennon was a raging no-Godnik - what does he know!

 

"Love is always having to say you're sorry"......pffff, that's not what Ryan O'Neal and Robert Evans claim

[Controlled Chaos]

I am the walrus!!!!!!!

[Controlled Chaos]

Wow.. after typing that as a joke, I searched to see what the hell it meant.

 

Here's an interpretation I found:

 

I Am The Walrus - An Interpretation

 

 

I am he as you are he/ We are all spirits of the same God

as you are me and we are all together/ therefore we are all the same

See how they run like pigs from a gun/ Man on earth today for the most part

see how they fly/ denys this simple beautiful truth

I'm crying / That they do is a sad thing

 

Sitting on a cornflake, / Cookie-cutter conformist capitalists

waiting for the van to come/ that take carpools to work

Corporation t-shirt, stupidy / all dressed the same, in their boring

bloody tuesday / day-to-day jobs

man you been a naughty boy/ and criticise people like John Lennon

you let your face grow long / who don't look like they do

I am the eggman / I am a spirit of God

They are egmmen / And so are you

I am the Walrus / I am God (and therefore so are you)

Goo goo ga joob / Isn't that Wonderful?

 

Mr. City policeman/ The policemen (the establishment)

sitting pretty little policemen in a row / look pretty and officious in their uniforms

see how they fly / But when it comes down to doing the

like lucy in the sky / right thing and helping people

see how they run / They just sell out

I'm crying, I'm crying / That they do is a sad thing

I'm crying, I'm crying / Very sad

 

Yellow matter custard / Man's inhumanity to man gets worse

dripping from a dead dog's eye / and more ludicrous and disgusting

Crabalocker fishwife / every day

pornagraphic priestess / And those that are not corrupt

boy, you been a naughty girl / monetarily are corrupt morally

you let your knickers down/

I am the eggman / I am a spirit of God

They are egmmen / And so are you

I am the Walrus / I am God (and therefore so are you)

Goo goo ga joob / Isn't that Wonderful?

 

Sitting in an English garden / If you just relax and get into a

waiting for the sun / calm state you can see the

If the sun don't come / simple beauty of life

you get a tan from standing / And the world goes on if you do

in the English rain / or not

I am the eggman / I am a spirit of God

They are egmmen / And so are you

I am the Walrus / I am God (and therefore so are you)

Goo goo ga joob / Isn't that Wonderful?

 

Expert texpert choking smokers / The morally corrupt think they're

don't you think the joker / cheating fate

laughs at you / And don't realise that they're

ho ho ho / going to have to pay in the end

hee hee hee/

ha ha ha/

See how they smile / But they just go innocently on

like pigs in a sty / not caring about the world

see how they snied/

I'm crying / That they do is a sad thing

 

Semolina pilchards / Some people try to reach God in

climbing up the Eiffel Tower / the strangest ways

Elementary penguin / But even the lowly animals know

singing hare krishna / know how to be one with God

man you should have seen them/ And even if you're a good person

kicking Edgar Allen Poe / you shouldn't expect praise

I am the eggman / I am a spirit of God

They are egmmen / And so are you

I am the Walrus / I am God (and therefore so are you)

Goo goo ga joob / Isn't that Wonderful?

 

 

 

http://www.getback.org/breflib/iatw.html

[Wong & Owens]

One of the "Godless" here, Juggs.

 

I promise you I am every bit as outraged by the Iraqi prisoner abuse as you are.  Ditto for the disintegrating academic standards and integrity in America.

 

But you go off the deep-end (and then some) when you suggest that these are symptoms of an underlying problem of "Godlessness" in our society.  80% of Americans state that they belong to an organized faith and half of these claim to be regular church-attending practitioners.  The vast majority of these are Christians. If the backgrounds of the abusers in the Iraqi prison were examined I suspect you would find a similar breakdown.

 

Sure, you can argue that calling yourself a Christian and truly being one are often wholly different matters, and I will agree with you (although I refuse to accept anyone as having the authority to deem who or what a "true Christian" is).

 

But the solution to all the woes of modern American life is not to take militant steps to put God into (or back into) our schools, our government, our lives.  There are myriad reasons society is in the shape it's in, and a lot of them have more to do with human greed, laziness, the economic realities of two working parents and their latch-key kids, etc., than how much time we spend offering our lives and works up to a Divine Agent that may or may not be up there to take our calls.

 

I concur that maybe the Broward school trip to Disney during next week's Gay Days is more agenda than the diverse student body and their parents should be asked to swallow. I commend the administrator(s) who want to expand the minds of the straight and narrow, but there should be an alternative and equally fun trip for the students who don't want to go.  At the same time, "What is the Arab world to think when a high school in Broward county purposefully schedules a trip to Disney world during gay pride week?"  Are you serious???  I can tell you how much press coverage this earth-shattering story is going to get in the Arab world.

 

[incidentally, I will be taking my wife and kids out this weekend to attend our fourth consecutive Gay Day at Disney.  Being part of the straight-not narrow crowd, I feel it is important to show my support for both the gay community and for Disney who allows (while not officially sponsoring or sanctioning) the event despite lots of pressure and protest from the fundamentalist religiosos.  My kids give the whole thing not a second glance or thought, as it should be, as they drag me onto the Pirates of the Caribbean ride for the 15th time...]

 

But Juggs, what about this GLARING DOUBLE STANDARD?:

 

 

 

If you're concerned about forcibly exposing the minds and immortal souls of the straight and narrow to the horrors of Gay Days at Disney, then why are you not equally upset by the prospect of unilaterally cramming whitebread Christianity down the throats of all students?  Many of whom are not Christian and don't care to be bombarded by all the Fear of God claptrap.  Others do come from Christian families but the families rightly realize that home and the church community are the more appropriate stewards of Junior's Godly upbringing than the homeroom teacher at P.S. 159.

 

Your statement, "tolerance should not include cohersion [sic]" seems not to apply if all we are talking about coercion to force-feed children some government-approved Christian doctrine when they should be learning about math and science and history – including high points of Christian ideology like the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, the Holocaust.

 

I enjoyed the statement, " I recall Lenon's [sic] famous lyrics .. imagine a world without religion" – mostly because you obviously do not recall them at all. 

 

 

 

Lennon also said, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" (and bad marks to all who didn't peg that one when posted last week – CW and SS2k4 I'm looking in your direction...).  I find little in today's world to suggest John was very far off on that one.

Well, I was just going to call him a raving lunatic, but I'll defer to your gentler, more diplomatic rebuttal. If you need a little more vitriol on behalf of the atheist/agnostic side, lemme know, I gotch yo back!

[JUGGERNAUT]

One of the "Godless" here, Juggs.

Lennon also said, "God is a concept by which we measure our pain" (and bad marks to all who didn't peg that one when posted last week – CW and SS2k4 I'm looking in your direction...).  I find little in today's world to suggest John was very far off on that one.

Your words seem to speak of finding a balance between the Godless & God-revering cultures. I am not advocating a forced or militant re-emergence of God in the public class room. What I am advocating is the right for parents & students to bring God back to the class room so long as the majority support it. More importantly than the symbolism of what God represents is the Christian value system. The Godless have by & large rejected that system. Even in Japan, & China (traditionally Godless nations) those values are surfacing in their public education system & as well as their print & media.

 

That is what is missing in America today. There is no education teaching morals with respect to respect for human life. Morality is not teaching students it's good to be gay or lesbian. Morality is teaching students what is proper & admirable based on society's norms of the time. You may think men wearing skirts with no underwear at Disneyland fits that criteria but it's clearly not by every means available to measure majority opinions. You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not. These are abberations of a system forcing the fusion of straights & non-straights (as you call them) towards acceptance of a non-straight lifestyle.

 

In a general point of view this is about segregation vs non-segregation. Forcing cultures to interact with one another is no better than forcing them to segregate.

As you suggested the best answer is to provide freedom of choices: straights, mixed, & non-straights. Let the parents decide which group they want their students

education fostered by. This shouldn't just apply to sexual-preference either. It should apply to Christian values. Elective segregation is much better than prohibition or forced interaction.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Well, I was just going to call him a raving lunatic, but I'll defer to your gentler, more diplomatic rebuttal.  If you need a little more vitriol on behalf of the atheist/agnostic side, lemme know, I gotch yo back!

Godless Ones Unite!

[BrandoFan]

Godless Ones Unite! 

Oh great, just what we need....MLB Player's Union and the Democratic Party joining forces.

[Wong & Owens]

Your words seem to speak of finding a balance between the Godless & God-revering cultures. I am not advocating a forced or militant re-emergence of God in the public class room.  What I am advocating is the right for parents & students to bring God back to the class room so long as the majority support it.  More importantly than the symbolism of what God represents is the Christian value system.  The Godless have by & large rejected that system.  Even in Japan, & China (traditionally Godless nations) those values are surfacing in their public education system & as well as their print & media.

 

That is what is missing in America today.  There is no education teaching morals with respect to respect for human life. Morality is not teaching students it's good to be gay or lesbian. Morality is teaching students what is proper & admirable based on society's norms of the time. You may think men wearing skirts with no underwear at Disneyland fits that criteria but it's clearly not by every means available to measure majority opinions. You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not.  These are abberations of a system forcing the fusion of straights & non-straights (as you call them) towards acceptance of a non-straight lifestyle. 

 

In a general point of view this is about segregation vs non-segregation. Forcing cultures to interact with one another is no better than forcing them to segregate.

As you suggested the best answer is to provide freedom of choices:  straights, mixed, & non-straights.  Let the parents decide which group they want their students

education fostered by. This shouldn't just apply to sexual-preference either.  It should apply to Christian values. Elective segregation is much better than prohibition or forced interaction.

More importantly than the symbolism of what God represents is the Christian value system.

 

**I GUESS PISS ON THE JEWISH, MUSLIM, OR BUDDHIST VALUE SYSTEMS. THEY MUST BE WORTHLESS. JUST SOUNDS LIKE TYPICAL, CLOSE-MINDED CHRISTIAN BULLs*** TO ME.

 

The Godless have by & large rejected that system.

 

**I AM ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC, AND I WILL PUT MY ETHICAL, MORAL, AND COMMUNITY SERVICE "RECORDS" UP AGAINST 99% OF CHRISTIANS, AND I WILL ANNIHILATE THEM--I GUARANTEE IT. LAST I CHECKED, THE GODLESS HAVE NEVER KILLED AN ABORTION DOCTOR, NEVER KILLED SCORES OF PEOPLE FOR DISAGREEING WITH THEIR ATHEISTIC VIEWS, AND NEVER TOLD ANYONE THEY WERE DOOMED TO A LIFE IN HELL FOR NOT AGREEING WITH THEM. BY AND LARGE, THE RELIGIOUS CAN BITE MY CRANK.

 

 

Even in Japan, & China (traditionally Godless nations)

 

** SIMPLY INCORRECT. WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION?

 

You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not.

 

**6' 11" STUDENTS, OR STUDENTS WITH ONE ARM AREN'T THE NORM EITHER. WHO CARES -- EXTRA TALL FOLK, GALS WITH ONE ARM, AND GUYS WHO MAKE OUT WITH GUYS ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON, THEY DON'T HURT ANYBODY.

 

As you suggested the best answer is to provide freedom of choices: straights, mixed, & non-straights. Let the parents decide which group they want their students education fostered by.

**AS LONG AS EACH GROUP GETS EQUAL PUBLIC FUNDING, AND EQUAL PUBLIC RESOURCES, THEN FINE. BUT GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

[FlaSoxxJim]

More importantly than the symbolism of what God represents is the Christian value system.  The Godless have by & large rejected that system.  Even in Japan, & China (traditionally Godless nations) those values are surfacing in their public education system & as well as their print & media.

 

Morality is teaching students what is proper & admirable based on society's norms of the time. You may think men wearing skirts with no underwear at Disneyland fits that criteria but it's clearly not by every means available to measure majority opinions. You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not.  These are abberations of a system forcing the fusion of straights & non-straights (as you call them) towards acceptance of a non-straight lifestyle. 

 

In a general point of view this is about segregation vs non-segregation. Forcing cultures to interact with one another is no better than forcing them to segregate.

As you suggested the best answer is to provide freedom of choices:  straights, mixed, & non-straights.  Let the parents decide which group they want their students

education fostered by. This shouldn't just apply to sexual-preference either.  It should apply to Christian values. Elective segregation is much better than prohibition or forced interaction.

What I am advocating is the right for parents & students to bring God back to the class room so long as the majority support it.

 

And by extension, of the majority of teachers and families in the Broward County school you referred to suported the trip to Gay Days you're also ok with that, correct?

 

As far as the groping, the 'skirts with no underwear,' etc. at Gay Days claim, I've been to the last three and you have MY eye-witness account that I saw nothing obscene on any visit. I saw men holding the hands of other men and kissing each other, I saw women doing the same thing with women. But the amount of publicly acceptable affection (if you consider holding hands and kissind a loved one publicly acceptable) among the gay crowd was no more than among the straight crowd tthat day or any other. Yes, there is a lot of flamboyance on those days, and that's kind of the point, GAY PRIDE and all (My favorite last year was a bunch of unattached guys with shirts on that said:"Unsigned Free Agent" on them).

 

The problem, I believe, is that you (not just you or course) find two men sharing a non-gratuitous kiss in public obscene, but you would not give a straight cpouple kissing a second thought.

 

... I have to go pick up my kid and get her to her T-ball game - I'll finish up this response later.

[whitesoxfan99]

That is what is missing in America today.  There is no education teaching morals with respect to respect for human life. Morality is not teaching students it's good to be gay or lesbian. Morality is teaching students what is proper & admirable based on society's norms of the time. You may think men wearing skirts with no underwear at Disneyland fits that criteria but it's clearly not by every means available to measure majority opinions. You may think girls & boys making out in front of public schools with the same sex is the norm, but again it's not.  These are abberations of a system forcing the fusion of straights & non-straights (as you call them) towards acceptance of a non-straight lifestyle. 

Why do people act as if homosexuality is a recent development? Homosexuality was widely accepted by the ancient Greeks and Romans in young men. I assume their morals were corrupt as well and that they taught people it is good to be gay or lesbian.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Go ahead Godless unite. I have 35 yrs of history in America to destroy any argument you wish to make. I more than welcome your attempts.

 

The odds (based on clinical research) suggest you are dead wrong in what you think the background of those sadists are. The research suggests they do not revere God which is what this about. It's not about professing a weak & useless belief in God. It's about showing reverance to Christian values. The odds are that these grunts & the general

herself experienced such acts themselves. Either during their time in the military or beforehand during elementary, high, or univeristy education. The odds are that these grunts & the general have participated in sadistic acts in the past.

 

In general here are the questions to ask your Godless selves:

1) By what right do you have to force Godless behavior on those who show reverance to God? Do you not believe that these people have a right to segregate themselves from you?

 

I wish your stats were true, but they are not. Roughly 85% of Americans profess a belief in God. But only about 25% of them practice that belief on a daily or weekly basis. Just 30 yrs ago that number was as high as 40% & 15 yrs before that it was as high as 70%. Clearly God's absence from the class room has had a dramatic effect on that number.

 

God should never be a requirement in a class room, but it should be an option.

It should never be a prohibition & it is today. What signal do you think this sends

to young adults when they see children punished for showing reverance to their

faith? And why is it fair to only punish the Christians? Again the cases that have been documented today indicate reports of acceptance for muslims & jews.

 

The bottomline is all these slogans like "education begins at home" don't work.

Parents simply will not bother to teach things to their children that might cause them stress. They expect the public education system to do that job for them. It's clear now that the pub ed has failed to do that. Failed in the past 30 yrs what it used to do routinely before that.

 

There are answers to these problems. What is more important to America?

Teachers or politicians? Why then do we not have term limits & elections for teachers & school admins?

 

The best way to stop the abuses of admins like those at Broward county is to hold these people accountable to the majority of residents in that county. Just has voting records hold politicians accountable so to should decisions apply to these admins. Even the Godless should see merit in that.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Some of you are hilarious. First he states I will put my record up against 99% of you Christians & then he ends it "bite my crank". I rest my case on that one.

 

Public funding should reflect the demographic of the community the school serves.

Example: If a county breaks down as 10% Godless, 50% mixed, & 40% God then 10% of the schools in the county should be segregated for the Godless, 50% for mixed, & 40% for God. Oh no there's that E-V-I-L segregation word the liberals hate. Of course this is ELECTIVE & not forced segregation. There would be nothing to prevent a Godless student from CHOOSING to go to a God school or vice-versa.

 

If the majority of residents choose to support the high school trip during Gay pride week then yes that is acceptable so long as parents still have the right to keep their kids home w/out fear of consequence. Your personal eye-witness reports only support the more sublime accounts of other personal testimony offered in print & news media. Why would I accept yours over someone else's?

 

Someone challenged the assertion that the MAJORITY religious culture in Japan & China is Godless. Do you need a history lesson. Since you did not refute that Christian VALUES (which of course do not exclude Buddhists or Jewish values) are popping up in these cultures & their education system there really in offering that history lesson.

 

Since the best approximation of Godless & Gays is about 10% (funny how those 2 are so close) why would seeing their public portrayals of affection merit any more worth than the roughly 1% of S&M practicers pulling their slaves around by a collar & chain? The numbers simply do not promote treating gay behavior any different than any other fetish behavior that the majority of Americans do not consider socially acceptable. Is Disney discrimination against the S&M people because they don't have an S&M Pride week?

 

For those who forget or were never taught how a democracy works let me explain it:

1- Freedom of speech & expression is guaranteed so that ALL people have the opportunity to influence the majority.

2- The majority opinion is expected to be the governing opinion.

 

That is the essence of democracy void of God, religion, or any other value system

that would shape the context of the majority opinion.

 

So for those of you who support MINORITY opinions you have the right to do all you can to influence the MAJORITY of your opinion. But you do not have the right to systemically undermine that majority opinion.

 

If you think the majority of residents of Broward county would elect for the high school trip to Disney during gay pride week then you are trully clueless as to where the majority stands in America.

[Wong & Owens]

Go ahead Godless unite.  I have 35 yrs of history in America to destroy any argument you wish to make.  I more than welcome your attempts.

 

The odds (based on clinical research) suggest you are dead wrong in what you think the background of those sadists are. The research suggests they do not revere God which is what this about.  It's not about professing a weak & useless belief in God.  It's about showing reverance to Christian values.  The odds are that these grunts & the general

herself experienced such acts themselves.  Either during their time in the military or beforehand during elementary, high, or univeristy education. The odds are that these grunts & the general have participated in sadistic acts in the past. 

 

In general here are the questions to ask your Godless selves:

1) By what right do you have to force Godless behavior on those who show reverance to God? Do you not believe that these people have a right to segregate themselves from you? 

 

I wish your stats were true, but they are not. Roughly 85% of Americans profess a belief in God. But only about 25% of them practice that belief on a daily or weekly basis. Just 30 yrs ago that number was as high as 40% & 15 yrs before that it was as high as 70%. Clearly God's absence from the class room has had a dramatic effect on that number.

 

God should never be a requirement in a class room, but it should be an option.

It should never be a prohibition & it is today. What signal do you think this sends

to young adults when they see children punished for showing reverance to their

faith?  And why is it fair to only punish the Christians? Again the cases that have been documented today indicate reports of acceptance for muslims & jews.

 

The bottomline is all these slogans like "education begins at home" don't work.

Parents simply will not bother to teach things to their children that might cause them stress.  They expect the public education system to do that job for them. It's clear now that the pub ed has failed to do that. Failed in the past 30 yrs what it used to do routinely before that.

 

There are answers to these problems.  What is more important to America?

Teachers or politicians?  Why then do we not have term limits & elections for teachers & school admins?

 

The best way to stop the abuses of admins like those at Broward county is to hold these people accountable to the majority of residents in that county.  Just has voting records hold politicians accountable so to should decisions apply to these admins. Even the Godless should see merit in that.

1) By what right do you have to force Godless behavior on those who show reverance to God? Do you not believe that these people have a right to segregate themselves from you?

 

**SURE THEY DO, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PRIVATE, CATHOLIC(OR OTHER DEMONINATIONS) SCHOOLS FOR THOSE WHO WANT THEIR CHILDREN TAUGHT IN A CHRISTIAN(OR JEWISH, WHATEVER) ENVIRONMENT. YOU CAN SEGREGATE YOURSELVES IN WHATEVER ORGANIZATIONS YOU WANT, TRUST ME, THE ATHEISTS WANT NO PART OF YOU.

 

I wish your stats were true, but they are not. Roughly 85% of Americans profess a belief in God. But only about 25% of them practice that belief on a daily or weekly basis. Just 30 yrs ago that number was as high as 40% & 15 yrs before that it was as high as 70%. Clearly God's absence from the class room has had a dramatic effect on that number.

 

**NO, THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN RACE IS WHAT HAS HAD THE BIGGEST EFFECT ON THAT NUMBER.

 

God should never be a requirement in a class room, but it should be an option.

It should never be a prohibition & it is today.

 

**IN A PUBLIC CLASSROOM, YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT IT SHOULD BE PROHIBITED.

 

when they see children punished for showing reverance to their

faith? **WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS? WHERE IS THIS HAPPENING?

 

Parents simply will not bother to teach things to their children that might cause them stress.

**THEN THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT HAVING KIDS. EDUCATION, ESPECIALLY MORAL AND ETHICAL EDUCATION, BEGINS AT HOME, OR IT WON'T BE LEARNED AT ALL.

 

Why then do we not have term limits & elections for teachers & school admins?

**ARE YOU EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BIT AWARE OF THE MAJOR TEACHER SHORTAGE GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY? PUT TERM LIMITS ON THEIR JOB, AND WATCH THE NUMBER QUICKLY DWINDLE TO ZERO. AND THAT'S JUST ONE REASON WHY THAT RIDICULOUS PROPOSAL WON'T WORK.

[1549]

Some of you are hilarious.  First he states I will put my record up against 99% of you Christians & then he ends it "bite my crank". I rest my case on that one.

 

Public funding should reflect the demographic of the community the school serves.

Example:  If a county breaks down as 10% Godless, 50% mixed, & 40% God then 10% of the schools in the county should be segregated for the Godless, 50% for mixed, & 40% for God. Oh no there's that E-V-I-L segregation word the liberals hate.  Of course this is ELECTIVE & not forced segregation.  There would be nothing to prevent a Godless student from CHOOSING to go to a God school or vice-versa. 

 

If the majority of residents choose to support the high school trip during Gay pride week then yes that is acceptable so long as parents still have the right to keep their kids home w/out fear of consequence. Your personal eye-witness reports only support the more sublime accounts of other personal testimony offered in print & news media.  Why would I accept yours over someone else's?

 

Someone challenged the assertion that the MAJORITY religious culture in Japan & China is Godless.  Do you need a history lesson. Since you did not refute that Christian VALUES (which of course do not exclude Buddhists or Jewish values) are popping up in these cultures & their education system there really in offering that history lesson.

 

Since the best approximation of Godless & Gays is about 10% (funny how those 2 are so close) why would seeing their public portrayals of affection merit any more worth than the roughly 1% of S&M practicers pulling their slaves around by a collar & chain?  The numbers simply do not promote treating gay behavior any different than any other fetish behavior that the majority of Americans do not consider socially acceptable.  Is Disney discrimination against the S&M people because they don't have an S&M Pride week?

 

For those who forget or were never taught how a democracy works let me explain it:

1- Freedom of speech & expression is guaranteed so that ALL people have the opportunity to influence the majority.

2- The majority opinion is expected to be the governing opinion.

 

That is the essence of democracy void of God, religion, or any other value system

that would shape the context of the majority opinion.

 

So for those of you who support MINORITY opinions you have the right to do all you can to influence the MAJORITY of your opinion.  But you do not have the right to systemically undermine that majority opinion.

 

If you think the majority of residents of Broward county would elect for the high school trip to Disney during gay pride week then you are trully clueless as to where the majority stands in America.

Since when did Juggernaut become Soxtalks local reactionary?