BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 At the same time, "What is the Arab world to think when a high school in Broward county purposefully schedules a trip to Disney world during gay pride week?" Are you serious??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 If you believe that a decision between a few 100 $'s for books & fees & nearly 10000 $'s to send a child to a private school is a choice then please relocate to Europe. That is not a VIABLE choice. You can easily find the cases of prejudice against Christians in schools by searching the topic at ABC news, MSNBC, or FOX or if you prefer just do it via Google. If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Since you have no real basis to debate the subject there's no point in my elaborating. I find it amusing how your argument towards retaining bad teachers coincides with the Church's argument of retaining bad priests: there are so few of them. Quality is far better than quanity & technology makes quality more available to answer the question of quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 If you believe that a decision between a few 100 $'s for books & fees & nearly 10000 $'s to send a child to a private school is a choice then please relocate to Europe. That is not a VIABLE choice. You can easily find the cases of prejudice against Christians in schools by searching the topic at ABC news, MSNBC, or FOX or if you prefer just do it via Google. If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Since you have no real basis to debate the subject there's no point in my elaborating. I find it amusing how your argument towards retaining bad teachers coincides with the Church's argument of retaining bad priests: there are so few of them. Quality is far better than quanity & technology makes quality more available to answer the question of quantity. Ok...I am a practicing catholic. I go to a public school. If my principal or one of my teachers ever has the nerve to hold a prayer session during school I will be very upset. That would be a crime against what the public school system in this country stands for. How are non-christians supposed to feel while this prayer is going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 What you don't think they have Internet access in the Arab world? I understand some of you simply don't have the mental capacity to absorb that much information in a week. Go to ABC News, Prime Time & look up the episode on the impact of modern media in the arab world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. So in a classroom of 20 kids, if 11 want to hold a prayers session, it should be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 If you believe that a decision between a few 100 $'s for books & fees & nearly 10000 $'s to send a child to a private school is a choice then please relocate to Europe. That is not a VIABLE choice. You can easily find the cases of prejudice against Christians in schools by searching the topic at ABC news, MSNBC, or FOX or if you prefer just do it via Google. If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Since you have no real basis to debate the subject there's no point in my elaborating. If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Since you have no real basis to debate the subject there's no point in my elaborating. **THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IS PREDICATED ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. IF THE STATE IS FUNDING THE SCHOOL, THEN NO CHURCH CAN EXERT INFLUENCE OVER IT. IS THAT ENOUGH BASIS FOR DEBATE, MEIN FUHRER? I find it amusing how your argument towards retaining bad teachers coincides with the Church's argument of retaining bad priests: there are so few of them. Quality is far better than quanity & technology makes quality more available to answer the question of quantity. **OH, IT'S THAT EASY IS IT? WELL YOU JUST HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, DON'T YOU? YOU KNOW WHY THERE ARE SO FEW PRIESTS? BECAUSE NOBODY BELIEVES IN THEM ANYMORE. IF 85% OF PEOPLE ARE SO GOD-FEARING, THEN YOU'D THINK MORE OF THEM WOULD BE WILLING TO WALK THE WALK IF IT WAS SUCH A BIG DEAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Here is the biggest problem I have with your argument juggernaut. Why do kids so desperately need to pray in a group during school anyways. Would it be a big deal if a kid just decided to pray silently to himself for a minute? Many public schools offer afterschool prayers groups. group prayer should not be held in a public classroom under any circumstances, and it does not need to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 IS THAT ENOUGH BASIS FOR DEBATE, MEIN FUHRER? Juggernaut's MEIN (Soxtalk) KEMPF coming to a bookstore near you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 Ok...I am a practicing catholic. I go to a public school. If my principal or one of my teachers ever has the nerve to hold a prayer session during school I will be very upset. That would be a crime against what the public school system in this country stands for. How are non-christians supposed to feel while this prayer is going on? Nice try. Notice I said "MAJORITY" of STUDENTS in the class room. Not the teacher nor the principal. What you have just stated is that you feel it is ok for the minority of students to prohibit socially good & morally sound behavior of the MAJORITY. I'm still waiting for an intelligent argument against this. Specifically the cause & effect or wicked consequences that will arise from allowing such behavior to enter the class room. Please take a shot, so that I can then list all the crap that goes on in the class room today & outline the consequences of that behavior. God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating 2) reduced lying 3) reduced molesting 4) reduced taunting 5) reduced emotional abuse 6) reduced physical abuse 7) reduced drug usage Oh yes the dire consequences of prayer in the class room might just prevent a few more sadists. We certainly wouldn't want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Nice try. Notice I said "MAJORITY" of STUDENTS in the class room. Not the teacher nor the principal. What you have just stated is that you feel it is ok for the minority of students to prohibit socially good & morally sound behavior of the MAJORITY. I'm still waiting for an intelligent argument against this. Specifically the cause & effect or wicked consequences that will arise from allowing such behavior to enter the class room. Please take a shot, so that I can then list all the crap that goes on in the class room today & outline the consequences of that behavior. God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating 2) reduced lying 3) reduced molesting 4) reduced taunting 5) reduced emotional abuse 6) reduced physical abuse 7) reduced drug usage Oh yes the dire consequences of prayer in the class room might just prevent a few more sadists. We certainly wouldn't want that. In a room of 300 kids, if 299 Christian kids begin a big prayer, it is going to be uncomfortable for the 1 jewish kid. And don't think for a minute that those 299 kids are all of the sudden going to become model citizens because they pray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 That is what is missing in America today. There is no education teaching morals with respect to respect for human life. Ok fine, then put some it. Teaching respect and ethics doesn't require fire and brimstone bulls*** behind it. I have 35 yrs of history in America to destroy any argument you wish to make. Correlation isn't grounds for causation, Jug. One could just as easily say that the removal of forced prayer has resulted in increased civil rights or better technology. 1) By what right do you have to force Godless behavior on those who show reverance to God? Do you not believe that these people have a right to segregate themselves from you? Oh I thought you were going to provide some examples of forcing behavior on people. I guess that isn't necessary because it's so obvious that health ed classes now include Homosexuality Quizzes where students must have gay sex. It should never be a prohibition & it is today. "god" is not prohibited. Forced prayer is. What signal do you think this sends to young adults when they see children punished for showing reverance to their faith? And why is it fair to only punish the Christians? Again the cases that have been documented today indicate reports of acceptance for muslims & jews. Warning. Nonsensical martyrdom complex ahead. Since the best approximation of Godless & Gays is about 10% (funny how those 2 are so close) Again, nonsense. If you again believe that if a majority of students desire to hold prayer in their classroom should be prohibited then please relocate to a Godless country. Sorry, I already live in a secular country where all people's tax dollars go towards a secular public education. These institutions can have religious clubs and all students are able to congregate and share their beliefs IN APPROPRIATE SETTINGS. If you believe that if a majority of students desire to waste the time of other students with religious garbage, they should be allowed, then please relocate to a theocracy. We all know how well those countries work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating 2) reduced lying 3) reduced molesting 4) reduced taunting 5) reduced emotional abuse 6) reduced physical abuse 7) reduced drug usage Please explain how prayer will do any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 10 to 1 this thread gets closed soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Nice try. Notice I said "MAJORITY" of STUDENTS in the class room. Not the teacher nor the principal. What you have just stated is that you feel it is ok for the minority of students to prohibit socially good & morally sound behavior of the MAJORITY. I'm still waiting for an intelligent argument against this. Specifically the cause & effect or wicked consequences that will arise from allowing such behavior to enter the class room. Please take a shot, so that I can then list all the crap that goes on in the class room today & outline the consequences of that behavior. God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating 2) reduced lying 3) reduced molesting 4) reduced taunting 5) reduced emotional abuse 6) reduced physical abuse 7) reduced drug usage Oh yes the dire consequences of prayer in the class room might just prevent a few more sadists. We certainly wouldn't want that. God forbid if prayer in schools might lead to : 1) reduced cheating**BECAUSE JIM BAKKER NEVER GOT CAUGHT SWINDLING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS 2) reduced lying **BECAUSE GEORGE W. BUSH NEVER LIED ABOUT GETTING BUSTED ON A DWI 3) reduced molesting**BECAUSE NO PRIEST HAS EVER BEEN ACCUSED OF MOLESTING A CHILD 4) reduced taunting **BECAUSE NO CHRISTIAN HAS EVER TAUNTED A PEACE-LOVING MUSLIM SINCE 9/11 5) reduced emotional abuse **BECAUSE NO BATTERED WIFE WAS EVER TOLD BY A RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY TO STAY IN AN ABUSINVE MARRIAGE 6) reduced physical abuse **BECAUSE THE INQUISTION, HOLOCAUST, AND CRUSADES NEVER HAPPENED 7) reduced drug usage **BECAUSE ED MEESE WASN'T A DRUNK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 10 to 1 this thread gets closed soon.... Just in case it does, I would like to apologize to Juggernaut for comparing him to Hitler. Though I disagree with his views, I do not believe Juggernaut is like Hitler in anyway, and the Mein Kempf comment was poor judgement on my part and I would like to apologize to Juggernaut. Juggernaut, My strong feelings on this issue took me too far, I hope I have not offended you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 Separation of Church & State: what does it mean? It does not mean the State can not HELP assist any institution that has an affiliation with a Church. There is NOT one WORD in the Constitution that either states or implies this. What it means is that the State can NOT ACKNOWLEDGE any Church ruling, provision, etc. as a formal ruling of the State. The purpose of this separation was to PREVENT the emergence of what had taken place in Europe up to that time. It was to prohibit FORCED acceptance of state ruling on the basis of their religious affiliation. An abuse that was common in Europe at the time. Do you realize how your points are defeating themselves? First you say that segregation should be allowed in all fairness but then you want to deny it on your belief that a God based school deserves special prohibition over any other idealogical school? And then on top of that you have the nerve to associate my words to those of Hitlers. Do you know how utterly stupid that is? I will give you an example: If Juggernaut were leader of Germany in the 1930's the Jews would have a clear & present voice in government & the funds to education their children as they see fit. Now if you were the leader of Germany in the 1930's you would send the Jews home. You're making me burst with laughter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 It's a good debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 And then on top of that you have the nerve to associate my words to those of Hitlers. Juggernaut- I apologized for that, just in case you haven't seen the apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 It's a good debate! I agree.. however someone might disagree. Just sayin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Why then do we not have term limits & elections for teachers & school admins? **ARE YOU EVEN THE SLIGHTEST BIT AWARE OF THE MAJOR TEACHER SHORTAGE GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 A general response (not to anyone or their post inparticular): There are too many religions in this country to force them to pray to a particular 'God.' If there were silent prayer time in the beginning of the school day (as in pray to the God of your choice), I don't see a problem with that. But, I do have a problem with students being forced to pray to a particular 'God.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 A general response (not to anyone or their post inparticular): There are too many religions in this country to force them to pray to a particular 'God.' If there were silent prayer time in the beginning of the school day (as in pray to the God of your choice), I don't see a problem with that. But, I do have a problem with students being forced to pray to a particular 'God.' I hate to stray from the subject, but what the hell am I looking at in your avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I hate to stray from the subject, but what the hell am I looking at in your avatar? Lon Chaney is his 'Phantom of the Opera' makeup. I have a couple, but for some reason, this one makes me laugh so I am using that one for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Lon Chaney is his 'Phantom of the Opera' makeup. I have a couple, but for some reason, this one makes me laugh so I am using that one for now. He resembles Homer Simpson, but with a weird nose, weird eyes, and deformed teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I understand some of you simply don't have the mental capacity to absorb that much information in a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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