Bullying in Schools

[JUGGERNAUT]

Some of you expressed concern of this problem in schools.

Today there are ways to deal with it & in light of more data coming from the Columbine event seems to suggest that it should no longer be ignored.

 

I guess you could ask that if there was greater surveillance & a greater loss of privacy at Columbine could the massacre have been prevented?

 

Morality & ethics classes would certainly help sway some to being good kids, but it's not a solution by itself. We know that metal detectors are in place at Chicago HS, but that's more of a knee jerk reaction than a solution.

 

What's at the core issue here is the privacy of a student vs the right to provide a safe & secure environment for the school. It's pretty close to the central issue on terrorism as well.

 

I'm going to take the stance that safe & secure is more important than privacy when it comes to schools. Having taken that stance, technology can be used to remove privacy from the school. The cost is not cheap but there is no way the ACLU would allow this to be budgeted & controlled at the Federal level. Likewise it's too intrusive at the state level so ultimately this cost & control needs to fall on the shoulders of the tax payers at the district level. Maybe even the school level.

 

You need to install the cameras, mics, & of course the people to watch & review.

Volunteers should be welcome to keep the cost down. In theory you could completely cover the school so that no bullying event goes unrecorded.

 

With that kind of control, it's likely bullying would end within the school grounds

in a matter of months. Suspension alone would not be enough. If caught bullying susbstantial fines would be levied. That would inspire even the deadbeat parents.

 

Now before the Big Brother cats weigh on remember that corruption can be prevented with effective checks & balances. I'll save that for another day.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I realize this thread was initiated primarily because of me. I do think that school violence is at a crisis level, but that it is symptomatic of the larger issue which is a broken school system. I won't dwell on that other than to say that if kids were held accountable for actually knowing what the standards say they were truly required to know before passing onto the next grade (regardless of how many times a grade had to be repeated), a lot of other problems would begin to get fixed. If students know they can get away with doing nothing and still passing each year, they already think they can get away with anything. They have no respect for teachers, administrators, or their peers, realize non-accountability is the norm, and they do what they want to. In the long run, all the kids and all of society is better served by making them work to earn a passing grade and actually learning something while they're in school.

 

As far as the violence thing... I'm going with 'other', not because I'm patently against increased fees but because I think increasing surveilance is a secondary concern.

 

What needs to happen is adopting a zero tolerance policy on school violence in much the same way as zero tolerance on drugs has been pretty much universally adopted. Suspensions, expulsions, and police intervention need to be utilized with consistency and the policies should be clearly stated. Extramural club, athletic, etc. priveleges should be forfeited. Ditto for student athletes guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

Verbal and emotional abuse needs to be cracked down on with equal severity.

 

And teachers can't be forced to buckle under to pressure from parents (who can't be bothered until it's time to fish their kid out of the fryer) or from administrators who would rather ignore problems anf hope they go away quietly.

 

I don't think federal legislation is the answer here. The states have to address these issues on their own, with federal support.

[Mathew]

I realize this thread was initiated primarily because of me.  I do think that school violence is at a crisis level, but that it is symptomatic of the larger issue which is a broken school system.  I won't dwell on that other than to say that if kids were held accountable for actually knowing what the standards say they were truly required to know before passing onto the next grade (regardless of how many times a grade had to be repeated), a lot of other problems would begin to get fixed.  If students know they can get away with doing nothing and still passing each year, they already think they can get away with anything.  They have no respect for teachers, administrators, or their peers, realize non-accountability is the norm, and they do what they want to.  In the long run, all the kids and all of society is better served by making them work to earn a passing grade and actually learning something while they're in school.

 

As far as the violence thing... I'm going with 'other', not because I'm patently against increased fees but because I think increasing surveilance is a secondary concern.

 

What needs to happen is adopting a zero tolerance policy on school violence in much the same way as zero tolerance on drugs has been pretty much universally adopted.  Suspensions, expulsions, and police intervention need to be utilized with consistency and the policies should be clearly stated.  Extramural club, athletic, etc. priveleges should be forfeited.  Ditto for student athletes guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

Verbal and emotional abuse needs to be cracked down on with equal severity.

 

And teachers can't be forced to buckle under to pressure from parents (who can't be bothered until it's time to fish their kid out of the fryer) or from administrators who would rather ignore problems anf hope they go away quietly.

 

I don't think federal legislation is the answer here.  The states have to address these issues on their own, with federal support.

Every time I every got suspended it was a few days holliday. Furthermore the kid who gets into trouble and is on the football team, your suggestion of kicking him off the team in most cases doesn't make him turn himself around. That studenin my experience, quits school and really causes trouble.

[zach61]

I say prosecute the parents for their kids actions until the kid can be tried as an adult. If the parent had to do community service for something their kid did, they might pay more attention to what they are doing in school and even outside of school. Kids will see how far they can push things, and it's up to the parents to make sure there are consequences if they get caught doing something wrong.

[southsider2k5]

Our school district has taken to having people who fight, arrested by our local police department and charged as if they were fighting anywhere else. Fights at our HS have dropped dramatically.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Our school district has taken to having people who fight, arrested by our local police department and charged as if they were fighting anywhere else.  Fights at our HS have dropped dramatically.

That's the way to do it.

[YASNY]

My initial reaction to privacy vs safety in the schools is this: In 12 years you'd have the first generation of young adults that were systematically trained to accept the fact that "government" has the right to invade their privacy. Not a good thing, imho.

[The Beast]

I am a victim of bullying. Ever since 6th grade, (the worst grade) I have been beat up about 8-10 times in the past few years. In 6th grade, a group of people ganged up and beat on me. They skinned my knees, pushed me into poles, made me trip, hit me, kicked me on the ground, and pushed me when I was going up for a shot in basketball. Now, in high school I find people making false accusations on me and threatening to beat me up. Many of them are drug lords and gangsters, but still. It really isn't a pretty process. Our deans are corrupt, and actually told the gangsters things about the person who told. I'm usually made fun of on a regular basis, and am mocked by a certain poster on this board. Not cool. Not fun at all.

[Wong & Owens]

I think things like Columbine get blown way out of proportion. What I mean is, when you take the total number of high school kids today, then count the number of violent psychotics who shoot up classrooms, you surely would get the same ratio as you would for society as a whole, no? There will always be bullies, always be victims, and, sadly, always be a Ryan Harris or Dylan Kleibold lurking somewhere. It's human nature, and no level of security can ever totally eradicate it. Extra security measures won't do much but create an atmosphere that I would not feel comfortable subjecting my kid to every day. Look at the big picture, is the chance of your kid getting hurt at school REALLY any worse now than it was 30 years ago?

[JUGGERNAUT]

Our school district has taken to having people who fight, arrested by our local police department and charged as if they were fighting anywhere else.  Fights at our HS have dropped dramatically.

How did this come about because your district deserves greater study. The biggest problem in attacking bullying is breaking through the fear syndrome. The bullies instill enough fear so that nobody talks. So how is it that people started talking to where the fear of being arrrested became reality?

 

I do not think we should take Columbine lightly. The evidence is overwhelming now that had the administrators acted upon the information that was collected beforehand this tragedy might have been prevented. Likewise the reality of what is to come in the near future will make modern solutions obsolete. We will have plastic guns & plastic bullets & they will be capable of killing people. This is inevitable. Metal detectors will not prevent & more expensive scanning machines are cost prohibitive. To sit & wait for something to happen before acting seems to be the consensus of what we do in America. I feel this is a foolish approach. The best way to deal with problems is to anticipate them & plan against them.

[southsider2k5]

How did this come about because your district deserves greater study.  The biggest problem in attacking bullying is breaking through the fear syndrome.  The bullies instill enough fear so that nobody talks.  So how is it that people started talking to where the fear of being arrrested became reality?

 

I do not think we should take Columbine lightly.  The evidence is overwhelming now that had the administrators acted upon the information that was collected beforehand this tragedy might have been prevented.  Likewise the reality of what is to come in the near future will make modern solutions obsolete.  We will have plastic guns & plastic bullets & they will be capable of killing people.  This is inevitable.  Metal detectors will not prevent & more expensive scanning machines are cost prohibitive.  To sit & wait for something to happen before acting seems to be the consensus of what we do in America.  I feel this is a foolish approach.  The best way to deal with problems is to anticipate them & plan against them.

Our district has had gang, drug, and violence problems just like many other districts. Teachers have been injured trying to break up fights, and the school board decided to try this. I remember the number of fights when I was in HS, and the number my wife, who is a teacher at the HS, says that there are now. There are a fraction of the problems now. It sounds like a huge success so far.

 

In my eyes it teaches the most important lesson I think you can learn at the HS level, and that is to take responsibility for your actions. If there are no consequences for fighting, what is to stop you from doing it? The mantra of most HS kids is I want to be treated like an adult. Well by being arrested for fighting, you get treated exactly like an adult would.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Our district has had gang, drug, and violence problems just like many other districts.  Teachers have been injured trying to break up fights, and the school board decided to try this.  I remember the number of fights when I was in HS, and the number my wife, who is a teacher at the HS, says that there are now.  There are a fraction of the problems now. It sounds like a huge success so far. 

 

In my eyes it teaches the most important lesson I think you can learn at the HS level, and that is to take responsibility for your actions.  If there are no consequences for fighting, what is to stop you from doing it?  The mantra of most HS kids is I want to be treated like an adult.    Well by being arrested for fighting, you get treated exactly like an adult would.

Ok, I think what you're saying is that anything that looked like a fight was quickly brought to the attention of the police & both parties were arrested. So the snitch so to speak could be any body & not the kid being bulied. Eventually the fear of being arrested greatly dimiinishes the fights & solves a greater part of the bully problem.

 

The only think I don't like about this is that in the beginning at least those who stand up to bullies or fight for others are seen no better or worse than the bully themselves. Grant it the numbers are probably small but it does present injustice for people like myself that were endoctrinated to do so at an early age. I can't believe it was unique to my day & so there must be kids in school today then why they see someone being bullied they are compelled to fight in defense of the kid. I would hope there would be some means to not lump the defender with the offender.

 

Those of you who know me know that I do not believe that fighting for a just cause is wrong. Certainly there is a lot more latitude as a minor than an adult with respect to the law in this regards. I think fighting for justice instills a sense of pride & courage not just for the defender but for those who witness their acts. I know this was the case with me because I met many people in my life I probably wouldn't have if I had not taken on that role. I have been stabbed, slashed, & beaten as a result but always did enough damage to where the kid was never bullied in my sight again. Maybe it stems from being endoctrinated as a football player at a young age or perhaps the books we read. I can't really say. From the time I was 4 yrs old I was a fighter.

 

In any case, it sounds like a good idea but I doubt if every school district would get that cooperation from it's police district. I kind of think a Guardian Angels movement in high school might work as well. Active recruitment in a club designed to police the school by students of the school. Limiting the club to soph, jrs, & snrs places better term limits on the members to prevent corruption. There mere presence on the school campus may be enough to deter bullying actions. Certainly enrollment as a peace-keeper would be resume worthy.

[SuperSteve]

I have done my fair share, there is nothing really to do. Just take the kids out back with a switch and show teach them a lesson, no pun intended.

[JUGGERNAUT]

SS got me thinking & I want to change my vote to OTHER.

 

I don't know what it's like in every school but in my day we had to become patrol boys in junior high. This was the first time in our lives that we were responsible for the safety of others. It's that daily endoctrination of being in that role that leads you to a protector role. This was not an elective, this was an assignment. At first it was volunteer but the numbers dwindled to where it became an obligation.

 

This role was not without consequence. If you left your corner after the 2nd bell because there were no kids in sight it didn't matter. The teacher who was in charge & driving around in his car checking up on you might see kids you could not. You would serve detention if that was the case. He took it that serious.

 

Why not extend & adopt the same idea to patrolling the school in general? Not just a corner, but every stair way, entrace & court yard. Obligate boys to patrol the school & then others to monitor their patrol to make sure they are doing their job. It seems to me this idea has the lowest cost & the best benefit. There are plenty of sports clubs in schools to where you could obligate certain persons to fill this role.