Geneva convention rules

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Good Lord, Apu, are you serious? Our proxy war in Afghanistan? s***, why didn't the Kremlin take a few DC-10s, seeing as they conducted an actual war in Afghanistan? Your first three examples were 12-20 years ago. Genocide in Iraq? I think it has been well proven that Saddam and others scammed the system and did very well for themselves, at the expense of his people. Why didn't he have a plane flown into his palace? Apartheid regime in Israel? That's laughable. Of course, why would Israelis want to be separated from people bent on their destruction? How ludicrous! Those Israelis sure can be overly sensitive!

 

Besides, there's a difference between having foreign policy contrary to the interests of a group of people and chopping off someone's head. I suppose if I chop off a liberal's head for voting against Bush in order to end the war on terrorism, I can claim, hey, your violence begets my violence.

Yeah, having the Afghans fight our war for us and then leaving them high and dry with a destroyed infrastructure. (Remember the Marshall Plan of WW II?) That tended to piss a bunch of people off. They got used to fight for US interests and got left with a destroyed infrastructure. It was, as they say, "The Great Betrayal". Insert the madrassas when their abject poverty overtakes people and they can't eat and hey, what do you get? A bunch of radical Wahabbi fundamentalists who see that the US used and abused them. And we wonder why they hate us?

 

15-20 years ago? There tends to be a long history in that region if you don't remember. (i.e. Israel going back to ancient times for their claims to the land) Hell, during the Iran/Iraq war Saddam made posters of himself as a military leader from approx 600 AD to commemorate military victories. There is a long history there. And by your thinking then when 9/11 is 15-20 years ago, we should just let it go and forget it? I think not.

 

Genocide in Iraq. Technically under international law, Madeline Albright could be prosecuted for intent to commit genocide. I dunno if you've read the list of banned items on the sanctions list when it was established or if you've had the ability to speak to anybody who has been to Iraq. I've had the opportunity to do both (people who have been to Iraq both military and humanitarian work bring food/meds into Iraq) Banned items included tape, televisions, toothbushes, nail clippers, fans, etc.

 

And if we really get technical there is some evidence of Al Qaeda helping Chechen rebels. Plus they defeated the Russians back in '89 so the Moujhadeen and the USSR as an entity sort of dissolved and Russia sorta has a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE.

 

Apartheid regime in Israel. Supporting the IDF killing of children, bulldozing of houses, not allowing people to get through checkpoints to go to work, not allowing Palestinians to use streets yet if my friend Adam (a Jew, necessary for the story) goes to Israel without checking his background he can use the highways because of his Jewish heritage. Yet everyday Palestinians who need to go to work or a hospital cannot use them. The UN, in its anti-semitic idiocy, went and created the nation of Israel in 1948 because the Security Council nations wanted to get rid of their Jewish populations.

 

When you walk around the world for 50 years doing whatever the f*** you want since World War II and we only get 1 9/11 then we have to consider ourselves DAMN LUCKY.

 

Read my other post in the "Islamic web site..." thread. There is more evidence that the Berg assassination was a psy ops to create the outrage you're feeling so torture of Iraqis in prison would be tolerated if they do it in the future and the outrage over the current scandal would subside. Looks like the propaganda just might be working.

[IlliniBob72]

Read my other post in the "Islamic web site..." thread.  There is more evidence that the Berg assassination was a psy ops to create the outrage you're feeling so torture of Iraqis in prison would be tolerated if they do it in the future and the outrage over the current scandal would subside.  Looks like the propaganda just might be working.

I did read it. I found it comical.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=5119272

 

Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.

 

Even in the Baghdad Sunni Muslim stronghold of Adhamiya, where there is fierce opposition to the occupation, many residents were appalled by the decapitation of Berg.

 

"We denounce this act. No-one can accept the killing of another human being in this horrible way," said Yassir Saleh, a 30-year-old barber. But he too pointed to a tide of violence that has swept the country since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

 

"Sometimes I really can't understand the logic of what is happening, all the violence that I could have never imagined would take place in my country," he said.

 

See IlliniBob, there are Arabs condemning the action.

[IlliniBob72]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?t...storyID=5119272

 

Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.

 

Even in the Baghdad Sunni Muslim stronghold of Adhamiya, where there is fierce opposition to the occupation, many residents were appalled by the decapitation of Berg.

 

"We denounce this act. No-one can accept the killing of another human being in this horrible way," said Yassir Saleh, a 30-year-old barber. But he too pointed to a tide of violence that has swept the country since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

 

"Sometimes I really can't understand the logic of what is happening, all the violence that I could have never imagined would take place in my country," he said.

 

See IlliniBob, there are Arabs condemning the action.

Maybe Yassir the Barber can mobilize the people to effect some change.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Maybe Yassir the Barber can mobilize the people to effect some change.

Can you be a little bit more condescending cuz that'd be great.

[kapkomet]

Read my other post in the "Islamic web site..." thread.  There is more evidence that the Berg assassination was a psy ops to create the outrage you're feeling so torture of Iraqis in prison would be tolerated if they do it in the future and the outrage over the current scandal would subside.  Looks like the propaganda just might be working.

So do you believe it? That's why I said "wow" over there and left it at that.

 

Why do we even live here if we are so freaking bad?

 

Clinton let the Cole happen (so he can rule the world)

 

Bush let 9/11 happen (so he can rule the world)

 

Clinton let World Trade Centre I in 1993 happen (so he can rule the world)

 

etc

 

etc

 

etc

 

What about all the billions that do get sent to other countries for NOTHING but humanitarian efforts? Ahh, we have a motive there. Probably oil in a place where there isn't any.

 

The United States sucks ass. We should just blow ourselves up and get it over with.

 

It's too bad, though, we are only human and greed and all the other bad character traits get in the way of true goodness and it's disgusting.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Kap, newsflash .01% of our GDP goes to foreign aid. Check it out next time.

 

1993 WTC - FBI helped cook the bomb

 

Dec. 15, 1993 Chicago Tribune article states that it was an FBI informant that built the bomb that was used. Even the New York Times stated on Oct. 28, 1993:

 

"Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building

a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center,

and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting

harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after

the blast.

 

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb

and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by

an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer,

Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

 

The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of

hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his

talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as

being in a far better position than previously known to foil

the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers."

source: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/P...OK/wtcbomb.html

 

I'm not saying I 100% buy the explanation made by Infowars.com re: Berg's execution but it does bring up some questions that should be answered before all the sheep start "Baa"ing and allow Bush more carte blanche to do whatever the f*** he wants. Skepticism - it's a good thing.

[kapkomet]

Kap, newsflash .01% of our GDP goes to foreign aid.  Check it out next time.

 

1993 WTC - FBI helped cook the bomb

 

Dec. 15, 1993 Chicago Tribune article states that it was an FBI informant that built the bomb that was used.  Even the New York Times stated on Oct. 28, 1993:

 

"Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building

a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center,

and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting

harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after

the blast.

 

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb

and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by

an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer,

Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

 

The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of

hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his

talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as

being in a far better position than previously known to foil

the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers."

source: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/P...OK/wtcbomb.html

 

I'm not saying I 100% buy the explanation made by Infowars.com re: Berg's execution but it does bring up some questions that should be answered before all the sheep start "Baa"ing and allow Bush more carte blanche to do whatever the f*** he wants.  Skepticism - it's a good thing.

While it's too small, .01% of the worlds biggest economy, nevermind the PRIVATE sources as well, still makes the US the world's largest "chartiable" country.

 

Skepticism is indeed good. I grant you that.

 

Having said that, this stuff is pretty heavy stuff, and basically to accuse our government, (don't even say it's just GWB), of blatently killing our own citizen in this manner is, well, extremely messed up.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

The US government has no qualms killing it's own people.

 

According to former State Department member, William Blum, and the US Army, the US Army has admitted that "between 1949 and 1969, 239 populated areas from coast to coast were blanketed with various organisms during tests designed to measure patterns of dissemination in the air, weather effects, dosages, optimum placement of the sources and other factors." Testing over such areas was supposedly suspended after 1969, but there is no way to be certain. Open air spraying even continued at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah. Here's a list of the places the US government sprayed with dangerous bacterias.

 

Watertown NY area & Virgin Islands: 1950, the Army used aircraft and homing pigeons to drop turkey feathers dusted with cereal rust spores to contaminate oat crops to prove that a "cereal rust epidemic" could be spread as a biological warfare weapon.

 

San Francisco Bay area: Sept. 20-27 1950, 6 experimental biological warfare attacks from the US Army. It began on a ship where the Army used bacillus globugii and serratia marcescens, at one point creating a cloud about two miles long as the ship traveled slowly along the shoreline of the bay. One of the stated objectives of the operation was to study "the OFFENSIVE (emphasis mine) possibilities of attacking a seaport city with a biological warfare aerosol" from offshore. Beginning on September 29, patients at Stanford University's hospital in San Francisco were found to be infected with serratia marcescens. This type of infection had never before been reported at the hospital. Eleven patients became infected and one died. According to a report submitted to a Senate committee by a professor of microbiology at State University of New York at Stony Brook: "an increase in the number of serratia marcescens can cause disease in a healthy person and...serious disease in sick people." Between 1954 and 1967, other tests were carried out in the bay area including some with a base of operations at Fort Kronkhite in Marin County.

Minneapolis: 1963, 61 releases of zinc cadmium sulfide in four sections of the city involving massive exposure of people at home and children in school. The substance was later described by the EPA as "potentially dangerous because of its cadmium content" and a former Army scientist, writing in the professional journal "Atmosphere Environment", in 1972, said that cadmium compounds, including zinc cadmium sulfide, are "highly toxic and the use of them in open atmospheric experiments presents a human health hazard." He stated that symptoms produced by exposure to zinc cadmium sulfide include lung damage, acute kidney inflammation and fatty degeneration of the liver.

 

St. Louis: 1953, releases of zinc cadmium sulfide over residential, commercial and downtown areas, including the Medical Arts Building, which presumably contained a number of sick people whose illnesses could be aggrevating by inhaling toxic particles.

 

Washington DC area: 1953, aerial spraying of zinc cadmium sulfate mixed with lycopodium spores from a height of 75 feet. Areas sprayed include the Monocacy River Valley and Leesberg, Virginia...30 miles from the capital. In 1960, the Army conducted 115 open air tests of zinc cadmium sulfate near Cambridge, Maryland. Earlier in the 1960s, the Army covertly disseminated a large number of bacteria in Washington's National Airport to evaluate how easy it would be for an enemy agent to scatter smallpox through the entire country by infecting air passengers. The bacterium used, bacillus subtilis, is potentially harmful to the infirm and the elderly, whose immune system is impaired, and to those with cancer, heart disease or a host of other ailments according to a professor of microbiology at the Georgetown University Medical Center. A similar experiment was carried out at the Washington Greyhound bus terminal. Sometime during Richard Nixon's time in office, the Army "assassinated" him with germs via the White House air conditioning system. At a building used by the Food and Drug Administration surreptitiously placed a (supposedly harmless) colored dye into the water system. Whether anyone suffered harm from drinking a certain quantity of the water is not known.

 

Florida: 1955, the CIA conducted at least one open air test with whooping cough bacteria around the Tampa Bay area. The number of whooping cough cases in Florida from 339 and one death in 1954 to 1080 and 12 deaths in 1955. The Tampa Bay area was one of three places that showed a sharp increase in 1995.

 

Savannah, Georgia and Avon Park, Florida: 1956-58, The Army, wishing to test "the practicality of employing aedes aegeypti mosquitos to carry a biowarfare agent", released over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of this mosquito which can be a carrier of yellow fever and dengue fever, both dangerous diseases. The Army stated that the mosquitos were uninfected but prominent scientists said that, for several reasons, the experiment was not without risk and was a "terrible idea." The actual effects on the targeted population will probably never be known.

 

New York City: 1956, a CIA-Army team sprayed New York streets and Holland and Lincoln Tunnels using trick suitcases and a car with a dual muffler.

June 6-10, 1966, The Army report of this test was called "A Study of the Vulnerability of Subway Passengers in New York City to Covert Attack with Biological Agents". Trillions of bacillus subtilis variant niger were released into the subway system during rush hours. One method was to use light bulbs filled with the bacteria; those were unobtrusively shattered at sidewalk level on subway ventilating grills or tossed onto the roadbeds inside the stations. Aerosol clouds were momentarily visible after the release of bacteria from the light bulbs. The report noted that "When the cloud engulfed people, they brushed their clothing, looked up at the grating apron and walked on." The wind of passing trains spread the bacteria along the the tracks; in the same time it took for two trains to pass, the bacteria were spread from 15th Street to 58th Street. It will never be known how many people later became ill from being unsuspecting guinea pigs but the United States Army exhibited not the slightest interest in this question.

 

Chicago: 1960s, the Chicago subway system was the scene of a similar Army experiment.

 

Stockyards: November 1964-January 1965, The Army conducted aerosol tests over stockyards in Texas, Missouri, Minnesota, South Dakota, Iowa and Nebraska using "anti-animal non biological stimulants". It's not clear why stockyards were chosen or what effect this might have had on the meat consumed by the public.

 

Nuremburg: The International Military Tribunal at Nuremburg, Germany 1946-1949, revealed many details of the Nazi medical experiments on involuntary subjects, leading the judges to create a set of principles known as the Nuremburg Code...a bill of rights for people participating in medical experimentation. The Code's first tenet states: "The voluntary consent of the subject is absolutely essential." Very shortly thereafter, the US Army-CIA testing program began and although the tests, of course, were nowhere near as grotesque as those of the Nazis, and the subjects of the tests were not humans as such, but rather the behavior of certain substances in the air, the fact remains that the testers knew that untold numbers of humans were being directly contaminated and none of the reports of the tests mentions a word about obtaining the consent of any of these humans. If the testers did not "know" that the contaminating substances were potentially dangerous it can only be because they didn't investigate this question, which is saying the same thing as they didn't know because they didn't WANT to know.

 

Face to Face Human Experimentation: For the human experimentation, the various government agencies appear to have chosen as their subjects primarily those who had the least political clout, such as servicemen and women, conscientious objectors, prison inmates, blacks, the poor, mentally retarded, the elderly, the young, mental patients..."It's a little cockail. It'll make you feel better." Helen Hutchinson recalled the doctor telling her in July 1946, during a visit to the Vanderbilt University Hospital Prenatal Clinic. It didn't make her feel better at all. It contained radioactive iron. She was one of 829 people to receive various amounts of the potion over a two year period. Both Hutchinson and the daughter she carried went on to suffer a lifetime of strange ailments. Hutchinson's hair fell out at one point, she suffers from pernicious anemia and she is highly sensitive to sunlight. Her daughter, now grown, suffers from an immune system disorder and skin cancer. In 1999, the American public might have learned something. When it was disclosed the government organization in Los Alamos National Labratory was going to release a strain of bacteria into the atmosphere to test new biowarfare detectors, the public outcry against it stopped it from happening. One resident said at the public hearing: "If the bacteria is so safe, why don't you release it into the office of some one in Washington DC?"

 

Dating back to our destruction of the USS Maine to get involved in the Spanish American War to making up the fight at the Gulf of Tonkin to get involved in Vietnam, the United States has been pretty good at making up events to get anger up so high that the government can do whatever the hell it wants.

 

In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff badly wanted an excuse for us to invade Cuba. So, they created "Operation Northwoods". Code named Operation Northwoods, the plan, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.

 

Among the actions recommended was "a series of well coordinated incidents to take place in and around" the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. This included dressing "friendly" Cubans in Cuban military uniforms and then have them "start riots near the main gate of the base. Others would pretend to be saboteurs inside the base. Ammunition would be blown up, fires started, aircraft sabotaged, mortars fired at the base with damage to installations."

 

The suggested operations grew progressively more outrageous. Another called for an action similar to the infamous incident in February 1898 when an explosion aboard the battleship Maine in Havana harbor killed 266 U.S. sailors. Although the exact cause of the explosion remained undetermined, it sparked the Spanish-American War with Cuba. Incited by the deadly blast, more than one million men volunteered for duty. Lemnitzer and his generals came up with a similar plan. "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," they proposed.

 

There seemed no limit to their fanaticism: "We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," they wrote. "The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States.

 

We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). . . . We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized."

 

Bombings were proposed, false arrests, hijackings:

 

*"Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government."

 

*"Advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican [Republic] Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. 'Cuban' B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with 'Cuban' messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and 'Cuban' shipments of arms which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach. Use of MiG type aircraft by U.S. pilots could provide additional provocation."

 

*"Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft could appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the Government of Cuba."

 

Among the most elaborate schemes was to "create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight."

 

They even stated that after the attack "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." Seizing on this indignation, they could easily get support for whatever programs they wanted to install. Northwoods was a highly popular program and the only reason it was not used was thanks to President Kennedy. So, it can be seen that the US government has absolutely no qualms whatsoever about killing its own people as long as the deaths allow them to further their political agenda.

source: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

 

History's an interesting thing. .01% of aid and people think that is a lot. Comparing percentages of GDP we do not give that much as the rest of the world. Chomsky discusses that a lot in "Profit Over People: Neoliberalism and World Order".

 

This thing isn't a knock against GWB, he's just a shill for little masters just like Clinton was.

[Texsox]

Remember the conspiracy theories that some people believed that the Clintons were behind Vince Foster's suicide.

 

Here's the Clinton Deathwatch Link