southsideirish Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 7 GS 40 IP 2 W 49 H 28 ER 17 BB 18 SO 6.25 ERA 1.64 WHIP And in his last 3 he has a 10.43 ERA. WOW! I would be pretty disgusted if the Sox had him at the price he was asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Are those Mark Buerhle's stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 MB stats (per mlb.com): 7 GS 42.2 IP 1 W 53 H 25 ER 11 BB 31 SO 5.27 ERA 1.50 WHIP Not terribly different from Ponson's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Are those Mark Buerhle's stats? So you mean you would be happy with 2 pitchers like this in your rotation? Two pitchers you would be counting on that would be disappointments. It is not like we were trading Buehrle for Ponson. We were going to add him to a rotation that was including Buehrle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elcaballo45 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ponson has only had what? 5 or 6 starts? I dont care what his numbers are right now, I'd love to see him on our staff. He's better than any 4th or 5th starter we have in the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'm estatic he's not with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Statistics from this season aside Ponson doesn't have the history of success that Mark Buerhle does. Ponson was asking for too much money based on what really amounts to one good year as a #1 or #2 starter. I argued over the off season against signing Ponson for the money he was asking and I haven't seen anything to change my mind. He is not a bad pitcher by any measn but he isn't worth the money he was asking for and that the Orioles are paying him now. If he had taken less and fit in as our #3 or #4 pitcher I would have liked to see him on the Sox and still would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Anyone else glad we didn't sign him? Glad. As I was glad when "we" didn't sign Colon, Matsui, Aurillia, Garciaparra, Castillo among others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 You make it out like the guy is a complete bum. If thats the case, why dont you look at MB numbers. That is what erye is trying to say, and he is right. I dont remember him being all to good before last season and the 2nd half he wasn't very good with San Fran. Not a complete bum, but not worth what we were going to offer or what he signed for. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 You don't think that Cooper could have worked with Ponson and helped him improve himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 Ponson has only had what? 5 or 6 starts? I dont care what his numbers are right now, I'd love to see him on our staff. He's better than any 4th or 5th starter we have in the organization. Better than Shoe? Where do you see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 11, 2004 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 You don't think that Cooper could have worked with Ponson and helped him improve himself? I don't know, is he improving Buehrle? There is only so much Coop can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I dont remember him being all to good before last season and the 2nd half he wasn't very good with San Fran. Not a complete bum, but not worth what we were going to offer or what he signed for. Simple as that. It's moot.. but we did make him an offer. And it wasn't much less than what he got. It was mostly deferred which is why the offer never materialized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'd feel a helluva lot more confident with Ponson in our rotation than Danny Wright!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'd feel a helluva lot more confident with Ponson in our rotation than Danny Wright!!! So what, now we should grossely overpay for the Tub-o-Two and cripple this team's financial flexibility even more? I'd rather have Diaz, Rauch, Cokks or Munoz at 300K and spend the big bucks on someone whose labrum is worth a damn. I guess you'd rather have Kaz Matsui over Uribe and Luis Castillo over Willie Harris too, right? Howe about Bartolo Colon over Schoenweiss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 So what, now we should grossely overpay for the Tub-o-Two and cripple this team's financial flexibility even more? I'd rather have Diaz, Rauch, Cokks or Munoz at 300K and spend the big bucks on someone whose labrum is worth a damn. I guess you'd rather have Kaz Matsui over Uribe and Luis Castillo over Willie Harris too, right? Howe about Bartolo Colon over Schoenweiss? Don't fall for that bulls*** about "financial flexibility". The Reinsdorf ownership group has more than enough money to be financially competitive with NY, Boston, Cubs, LA, etc. THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO! Would you rather the Sox not try to get Freddy Garcia or Odalis Perez or any quality starter, and stick with our guys? If so, enjoy watching the 2004 playoffs without the Whitesox in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Don't fall for that bulls*** about "financial flexibility". The Reinsdorf ownership group has more than enough money to be financially competitive with NY, Boston, Cubs, LA, etc. THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO SO! Would you rather the Sox not try to get Freddy Garcia or Odalis Perez or any quality starter, and stick with our guys? If so, enjoy watching the 2004 playoffs without the Whitesox in them. It's not bulls***; it's called BASEBALL REALITY, Izzle. It doesn't matter whether Sox have or don't have the money.....The budget is SET, so you have to operate within that limit, maximing the dollar/performance ratio as best you can. Now you can either overpay for a couple of bums like Colon and have NO chance at the playoffs.....or you can be smart, take some risks on youngsters and if they pay off, maybe do some damage. Update on potential Sox...... Colon (almost 13 Mill per): 4.10 ERA....loss of velocity. Ponson (8): 6.25 ERA O. Cabrera (6): 663 OPS Castillo (6): 594 OPS Matsui (6): 684 OPS...overrated base-running and defense Aurillia (4): 546 OPS....can't run Everett (3.5): 681 OPS...bad defense, not much speed. Rollins (3): 568 OPS Sullivan (2.5): 4.97 ERA Robbie (1): 623 OPS...declined defense and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Vlad Guerrero wouldn't have been an upgrade? Javy Lopez? LaTroy Hawkins? You'd rather have Willie Harris than Orlando Cabrera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Update on potential Sox...... Colon (almost 13 Mill per): 4.10 ERA....loss of velocity. Ponson (8): 6.25 ERA O. Cabrera (6): 663 OPS Castillo (6): 594 OPS Matsui (6): 684 OPS...overrated base-running and defense Aurillia (4): 546 OPS....can't run DL-Everett (3.5): 681 OPS...bad defense, not much speed. Rollins (3): 568 OPS Sullivan (2.5): 4.97 ERA DL-Robbie (1): 623 OPS...declined defense and speed. Also a little addition on my part as to who is even playing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSox30 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yea, Colon is only 4-2 because of his offense and he hasn't been going that deep consistently like he did last year so although I was probably one of the most dissapointed when he left I am ok with it AT THE MOMENT...as far as ponson, I am not glad we don't have him because I think coop could've really helped him and I think so far he is not pitching up to his potential and when things unfold he'll have a good year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Vlad Guerrero wouldn't have been an upgrade? Javy Lopez? LaTroy Hawkins? -Vlad Guerrero was simply unaffordable when you consider that DISK problems are very serious. Not when you have Sweeney/Anderson/Reed, esp. -Javy Lopez -- Miguel Olivo is playing almost as well while making a fraction of his salary. -LaTroy Hawkins - who knew he'd give the Cubs a discount? Sox had too many holes that needed to be filled to pay that kind of money to a set-up man -- we already have Marte and Shingo, remember? You'd rather have Willie Harris than Orlando Cabrera? Willie is kicking his ass so far in EVERY department, and is doing so on 300K. Get over it. Listen......if you want to play Fantasy Baseball with JR's money, go ahead. I prefer to stay in REALITY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 So were supposed to move over the one of the top RF in the leauge for another, and sign a overpaid catcher and give up on Olivo,who has the best arm behind the plate in the league????? Give me a break. I'd take Lopez over Alomar. I love Mags but his defense pales in comparison to Vlad. I'd move Mags to CF and dump A-Row, or move one to LF, move CLee to 1b and dump Konerko. I don't understand the "love affair" that some of you have with the Sox players and their farm system. It's not like we've produced tons of star ballplayers, nor are we World Series contenders with the ones we have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSox30 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 -Vlad Guerrero was simply unaffordable when you consider that DISK problems are very serious. Not when you have Sweeney/Anderson/Reed, esp. -Javy Lopez -- Miguel Olivo is playing almost as well while making a fraction of his salary. -LaTroy Hawkins - who knew he'd give the Cubs a discount? Sox had too many holes that needed to be filled to pay that kind of money to a set-up man -- we already have Marte and Shingo, remember? Willie is kicking his ass so far in EVERY department, and is doing so on 300K. Get over it. Listen......if you want to play Fantasy Baseball with JR's money, go ahead. I prefer to stay in REALITY. Agreed. Plus ESPN said the two best players in the AL are maggs and vlad and I wouldn't mind who I had and really I am more happier we have maggs considering he's been here and he's seen AL pitching speaking from a before season perspective. As for olivo, he is young and I would take him over javy in a second. Marte going into this season had potential to be a shutdown closer and I see him going into that role sooner or later probably later. and as far willie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I'd take Lopez over Alomar. I love Mags but his defense pales in comparison to Vlad. I'd move Mags to CF and dump A-Row, or move one to LF, move CLee to 1b and dump Konerko. I don't understand the "love affair" that some of you have with the Sox players and their farm system. It's not like we've produced tons of star ballplayers, nor are we World Series contenders with the ones we have! Lopez =$32 million Vlad=$75 million Those two contracts alone would be worth almost half of the value of the entire franchise. It isn't a love affair with current players, it is called bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Here is my point... Contending for the AL Central may be good enough for some of you guys (And Reinsdorf), but I find it totally unacceptable. I want the Sox to contend for a World Series; for them to do so, they have to rid themselves of their "small market mentality". That means they need to be constantly looking to improve the team, and not trying to "nickel and dime" their way to do so. If JR is not willing to make that kind of comittment, he should sell the team, or quit his bulls*** about being committed to bringing a World Series to the South Side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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