Islamic Web Site Shows Beheading Of American

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't know how you could stomach that Donkey.

 

Swear to god, as long as I live, I will NEVER remove from memory what I saw on that video.  Guess curiousity got the best of me (I downloaded the vid off Ebaums world), just trust me people, do not watch it.  The sound of the guy screaming is terrible....

I have conciously avoided viewing all of the abused Iraqi images since the first ones broke, and will make damn sure not to look at this one. I have made a point of not viewing video of the 9-11 tower collapses since it happened because in all of this, the visual media sensationalizes and potentially desensitizes viewers to the realities it is trying to portray.

 

I'm glad these unbelievably violent, gut-renching images are available (even the beheading), and I think it is important that new images that emerge - as awful as they are - are also available to the public and to the world. But I know I do not deal well with the stark, brutal visuals. I stick to the text descriptions of events and leave the photos and video to those better equipped to handle it than I.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I just watched that video for the 1st time and I was shocked & I saw some pretty disgusting stuff when I was over there.

 

The same type of scum that perpetrated this murder are what populates Abu Garib Prison as we speak. Whatever little iota of sympathy I might have had for those Iraqi's in the prison died when I saw that video. There's no amount of pain and suffering too much for those who perpetrate such acts of cruelty and I would have no issues with inflicting it my damn self.

[flippedoutpunk]

The same type of scum that perpetrated this murder are what populates Abu Garib Prison as we speak.

If the public knew this, do you think that they would care how we treat those f***ers in that prison anymore?

[DonkeyKongerko]

I was fairly shocked by the video but it is comparable to alot of the stuff I see in videos that Chechen rebels send to the families of captured Russian soldiers. Obviously the Russian government has not been deterred.

 

America on the other hand could be a different story. I think the fact that they have targetted some non-military personnel like Berg and Daniel Pearl also increases the impact.

[Flash Tizzle]

I was fairly shocked by the video but it is comparable to alot of the stuff I see in videos that Chechen rebels send to the families of captured Russian soldiers.  Obviously the Russian government has not been deterred.

 

America on the other hand could be a different story.  I think the fact that they have targetted some non-military personnel like Berg and Daniel Pearl also increases the impact.

I know what video you're talking about, and I agree this recent tragedy is similar. Though this incident still strikes me as more sickening. "Thee" (I call it that because it has become well known at Ebaums world) Chechen Rebel video was

 

1. done to an enemy soldier; not an innocent civilian

 

2. No sense of personal attachment existed with the soldier, whereas this guy was f***ing murdered immediately after describing himself as an American with a family in Philadelphia. Now US media outlets are boardcasting pictures of three family members consoling each other outside of their house. How must these people feel knowing their brother/son was screaming while his head was SAWED off. Not that the Chechen video isn't brutal, but with no background on the victim it only seems more random.

 

Talk about U.S. breeding hate with their Iraqi abuse scandal, the tides are equal when you murder American contractors. While the uncivilized, prehistoric Middle East believes this act is justified we're left questioning our role in Iraq, continually pointing fingers at Rumsfeld and Bush. I'm not here to complain about the war in Iraq, but I believe events warrant an out of control label when those who have NO intention (other then to help rebuild) are butchered.

 

In law enforcement training (maybe Army does this two. Nuke?) they teach you if you are ever kidnapped to disclose stories of loved ones and ,if possible, pictures of family members. Try and create an emotional response is the intended effect, but it obviously has no effect with these Islamic terrorists. Cold blooded, ruthless, persistent, and unwavering in their hatred these bastards are using Iraqi torture as an excuse to behead our citizens. Noone should assume this man would of lived even IF the whole Iraqi abuse scandal never occured, but it just seems like a convenient excuse to the anti-war crowd. Those people like to walk the fine line of "I agree the murder is uncalled for.......but I do understand why they did it."

[FlaSoxxJim]

I just watched that video for the 1st time and I was shocked & I saw some pretty disgusting stuff when I was over there.

 

The same type of scum that perpetrated this murder are what populates Abu Garib Prison as we speak.  Whatever little iota of sympathy I might have had for those Iraqi's in the prison died when I saw that video.  There's no amount of pain and suffering too much for those who perpetrate such acts of cruelty and I would have no issues with inflicting it my damn self.

The full-on raging hate is evident here, the violence begets violence begets violence begets violence... cycle remains firmly in place. The vindicated attitudes of "see, no matter what we do, the other side is doing much worse" (with subtext: and hence they deserve all the atrocity heaped on them and more) are all firmly in place.

 

But, where is the outrage - or even the acknowledgement - that had US security forces and Iraqi police not detained this man on March 30 as he tried to leave Iraq and held him uncharged and incommunicado for two weeks, releasing him only after his family sued the US government for wrongful imprisonment and then basically dumping him unprotected in the volitile anti-American streets with no safe way home, he would be alive?

 

Nick Berg was a civilian trying to make a buck - maybe not a wise choice but there it is. The vengeful bloodlust to which he fell victim was not of his making. He was kept from getting out when the getting was good, and he was left completely on his own when there was no safe way out. There is US and Iraqi security force culpability here, no?

 

Scott McClellan is so quick to make his statement that this "shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom. They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women, and children..." The statement is designed to paint in broad strokes that this bahavior (of despicable, vile, non-government sanctioned rebels and insurgents) is the rule and not the exception for Iraqi citizens. Meanwhile we are incensed if the rest of the world cannot see that the attrocities committed by government-sanctioned, legitimate US military and civilians in a military run prison camp are not indicitive of the American heart and spirit.

 

Nuke, you are way more versed in your military history than I, so I won't point you to books or websites on the issues... But you know that in the last years of Pacific operations in WWII, Allied forces on the islands were matching the unspeaakably inhuman barbarism perpetrated on the Japanese enemy atrocity-for-atrocity... torture, amputation, genital mutilization, even canabalism in the most extreme cases). s*** that makes the Death March of Bataan look tame. Of course Americans are capable of these acts, we are human, and we are mentally not meant to experience the horror of war.

 

As a Westerner, I absolutely think being tortured and killed is worse than being tortured, humiliated, but (usually) not killed. But as a Westerner I also cannot speak to the Islamic mentality that has suggested the humuliation is worse than death because there are afterlife issues involved. We're not part of the culture, we don't get it and never will. But that's all the more reason NOT to screw with these things, leverage that humuliation aspect in a systematic way, when we cannot fathom what the repurcussions might be. It's now coming to light that while the Abu Grhaib (sp) atrocities are a bombshell to us, they have been common knowledge to much of the Iraqi citizenry and we've dismissed the allegations until the mountain of evidence falls on us. Maybe, just maybe this public knowledge of the abuse Iraqi prisoners were receiving at the hands of their 'liberators' has something to do with the insurgency and the rebellion and the hate.

 

But, they are just dancing to your tune. Let the violence beget violence and beget violence and...

[Reddy]

I just watched that video for the 1st time and I was shocked & I saw some pretty disgusting stuff when I was over there.

 

The same type of scum that perpetrated this murder are what populates Abu Garib Prison as we speak. Whatever little iota of sympathy I might have had for those Iraqi's in the prison died when I saw that video. There's no amount of pain and suffering too much for those who perpetrate such acts of cruelty and I would have no issues with inflicting it my damn self.

 

thats rediculous, you're completely overgeneralizing. The vast majority of Iraqis are not bad people. There are as many assholes over there as over here. You just have to understand their culture. The things we have done to their prisoners are worse than death. So in their eyes death is the only fair consequence. Eye for an eye. You can critcize the culture as much as you want, you can say you dont like it, but are we any better? at least when its eye for an eye there is a reason for doing it. When the US takes an eye before they've taken ours... thats just low. And in their culture this cant go unavenged. We screwed this up. We're responsible. End of story.

[Queen Prawn]

I don't understand why they needed to release the video of this. The stills were hard enough to look at. It is disgusting the pictures they released of the family breaking down in grief. Let them grieve in peace.

 

This 'thing' has disgusted and shaken me more than I ever expected. When I went to the lunchroom and the the kid's picture was on the front page it had me sobbing again. He looks so much like my brother...but even if he didn't, I would still be sobbing. I can't understand the mentality of doing that to another person.

 

The thing that scares the most is that chances are, this is only the beginning.

 

Prayers and strength go to him and his family. No one should have to endure that.

[Texsox]

FlaSoxxJim,

 

Excellent points one and all. Of course our view of the world is the only right one and we must kill anyone who disagrees with that. Once the rest of the world understands that we will not have these problems.

 

Fan, why were these pictures and videos shown? Because we can. We offer that freedom and question other countries who wonder, as you, if we have too much freedom.

 

I do not want that treatment for American servicemen and women and believe we have to stop it when ever and where ever we see it. That begins at home.

 

When we administer capital punishment in the US, we prefer firing squads, hangings, lethal ejections, and the electric chair. France used a guillotine, the Iraqi's used a sword. Who is to say which is most humane? The US has capital punishment, we execute foreigners who commit crimes in the US. We've even had various standards of crimes that allow for the ultimate punishment. Kill me and you may get 20 years, kill a cop and be electrocuted. Is my life wrth less? Many people claim capital punishments should be aired in the US to deter crime. The Iraqi's have shown us what that looks like.

[JUGGERNAUT]

DAMN them all to HELL! (My catch-phrase of the day).

 

I'm sick to stomach in watching this crap any more. I no longer wish to liberate Iraq.

I will settle for liberating the Kurds from Saddam's evil & murderous ways.

 

If I were president I would meet with the Pentagon, arrange meetings with the Kurdish forces, & plan for a withdrawal of American forces from Shia & Shiite controlled Iraq.

The rebuilding of Iraq will continue to go on in Kurdish controlled regions. These are the regions friendly to America & welcoming democracy & capitalism. I would make sure all oil regions were secure.

 

And then I would let the Kurds do as they please with the Shia & Shiite controlled regions. As an America it's in my best interest to spread the Kurdish controlled regions throughout Iraq so I would provided them the munitions required to fight the Saddam loyalists in those regions. I would spell it out to them that we will kick their arses if they use are support towards the slaughter of innocent civilians.

 

Personally if I happen to hear that the Kurds slaughtered the persons responsible for Berg's death I might throw a fist in the air. Though I would condemn the act publicly of course.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I don't understand why they needed to release the video of this.  The stills were hard enough to look at.  It is disgusting the pictures they released of the family breaking down in grief.  Let them grieve in peace. 

 

This 'thing' has disgusted and shaken me more than I ever expected.  When I went to the lunchroom and the the kid's picture was on the front page it had me sobbing again.  He looks so much like my brother...but even if he didn't, I would still be sobbing.  I can't understand the mentality of doing that to another person. 

 

The thing that scares the most is that chances are, this is only the beginning.

 

Prayers and strength go to him and his family.  No one should have to endure that.

Blood sells. The media will seize upon any and every opportunity to glorify any bloodletting that happens in an effort to raise their ratings. It's really sickening.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I was just checking Infowars.com (Conservative/Libertarian site run by a big conspiracy theorist)

 

I dunno about the authenticity of the claims about the vid (I have yet to watch it) but he raises some interesting points that could be debated.

 

With several news outlets reporting that Berg's family is angry from the US government over their son's violent death and revelations that "Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days" (in other words, he was detained by the US military just prior to his death) -- (AP 5/11/04) we have to question what really happened and who was really behind Berg's horrific murder.

 

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor

regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

 

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any

remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be

struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional

torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials.

 

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

 

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

 

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

 

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to B) Berg sitting on floor with

hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost

motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

 

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

 

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

 

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

 

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

 

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

 

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

 

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

 

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly

dubbed in.

 

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information

about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a

positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his

identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by

family.

 

It's cynical conspiracy theorist in me but this could be a psy ops operation. Berg video released at height of furor over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to release additional torture videos. Now torture videos will be witheld from public for reasons of national security. Now "patriots" everywhere will laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies". Sensitivity level of public gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners. Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing. Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic situations.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't even want to consider that that is a remotely plausible scenario. The lack of blood and physical resistence is odd though. I've this far refused to watch the video because frankly I can't handle it, so I never had a chance to note the lack of blood or apparent resistence. If some more credence is given to this theory and at starts to look like the video had been faked, I'll watch.

 

I don't doubt for a moment that the beheading and the shocking visual document of it is being used to redirect public outrage away from Abu Grhaib and back to the Iraqi/Arab insurgents. But the fact that the video aired first on Arab networks and not in the American media makes it harder to muy into the full-blown conspiracy theory.

[Chisoxfn]

If the public knew this, do you think that they would care how we treat those f***ers in that prison anymore?

It doesn't matter. We are better then that and we have to prove that, imo. What we did to their prisoners is wrong, no matter what those aholes did to Berg.

 

Us going to their level makes us no better. I am glad the US has stuck into this and I think its a good thing. THe problem is their are some groups that think this way in Iraq but I still believe they are the minority. I think the majoritie's voice isn't heard and that its these rebels that are causing this. The key is to root that out, but to do so in as humane way as possible.

 

Speaking of which, anyone hear the girl who is now trying to pass the blame to her supervisors in regards to the prison stuff.

 

I'm sorry, but just hearing her talk makes me think she is speaking utter bulls***. It seems like she's freaking making up a story in her head.

 

Either way, this is absolutely sick what those assholes did.

[kapkomet]

I was just checking Infowars.com  (Conservative/Libertarian site run by a big conspiracy theorist)

 

I dunno about the authenticity of the claims about the vid (I have yet to watch it) but he raises some interesting points that could be debated.

 

With several news outlets reporting that Berg's family is angry from the US government over their son's violent death and revelations that "Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days" (in other words, he was detained by the US military just prior to his death) -- (AP 5/11/04) we have to question what really happened and who was really behind Berg's horrific murder.

 

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor

regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

 

2) CNN poll question:  "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any

remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?"  Bush has been reported to be

struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional

torture photos.  Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials.

 

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

 

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

 

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit).  Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

 

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited.  Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to B) Berg sitting on floor with

hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost

motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

 

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

 

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on the same page.  Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

 

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

 

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

 

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood.  If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere.  Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

 

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground.  Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

 

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

 

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly

dubbed in.

 

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information

about his family.  Why?  To elicit greater sympathy?  Or to provide a

positive ID.  FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his

identity".  Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by

family.

 

It's cynical conspiracy theorist in me but this could be a psy ops operation. Berg video released at height of furor over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to release additional torture videos.  Now torture videos will be witheld from public for reasons of national security.  Now "patriots" everywhere will laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies".  Sensitivity level of public gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners. Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing. Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic situations.

About all I can say is "Wow". I'll leave it there for now.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I was just checking Infowars.com  (Conservative/Libertarian site run by a big conspiracy theorist)

 

I dunno about the authenticity of the claims about the vid (I have yet to watch it) but he raises some interesting points that could be debated.

 

With several news outlets reporting that Berg's family is angry from the US government over their son's violent death and revelations that "Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days" (in other words, he was detained by the US military just prior to his death) -- (AP 5/11/04) we have to question what really happened and who was really behind Berg's horrific murder.

 

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor

regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

 

2) CNN poll question:  "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any

remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?"  Bush has been reported to be

struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional

torture photos.  Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials.

 

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

 

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

 

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit).  Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

 

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited.  Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to B) Berg sitting on floor with

hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost

motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

 

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

 

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on the same page.  Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

 

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

 

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

 

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood.  If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere.  Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

 

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground.  Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

 

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

 

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly

dubbed in.

 

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information

about his family.  Why?  To elicit greater sympathy?  Or to provide a

positive ID.  FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his

identity".  Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by

family.

 

It's cynical conspiracy theorist in me but this could be a psy ops operation. Berg video released at height of furor over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to release additional torture videos.  Now torture videos will be witheld from public for reasons of national security.  Now "patriots" everywhere will laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies".  Sensitivity level of public gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners. Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing. Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic situations.

***STUPID CONSPIRACY alert***

 

 

Saying s*** like that they may as well say Bush ordered the twin towers destroyed as an excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

You really need to quit reading those websites of yours. Those people are no different than the muckraking "journalists" who got us into the Spanish American war.

 

 

***STUPID CONSPIRACY alert***

[Texsox]

I would love for this to be a conspiracy and later, Berg appears unharmed. I have never seen a decapitation but was surprised at the lack of blood. I also noticed the time change on the screen, and some other oddities like the orange jumpsuit.

 

And his whole release after being detained. There seems like there should be more to this story.

[BrandoFan]

Personally if I happen to hear that the Kurds slaughtered the persons responsible for Berg's death I might throw a fist in the air. Though I would condemn the act publicly of course

 

See, death is too easy, too humane. The G-tines and ax beheadings used to be considered the "best" way to go. No pain.

 

Now torturing (cooking in oil, etc) the insurgents and religious fanatic killers once a week for 20 years, keeping them alive just to humiliate and inflict unbelivable pain --- that's something I could get behind. Talk about Hell on Earth. I bet the word will get around quickly.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Speaking of which, anyone hear the girl who is now trying to pass the blame to her supervisors in regards to the prison stuff.

If you mean Private England, the one smiling and pointing at a prisoner's genitals in one image, and holding a leash attached to another naked prisoner in another image, yes I did see that.

 

I do not find it at all hard to believe that this reservist thought she was obeying orders originating from up her chain of command. And her statements were very professional, not singling out any of the higher ups to take the fall. As much as the 'fitting in with the boys' mentality noted in the Hersh piece in the New Yorker must have played a role, I at the same time can't believe the perpetrators would so systematically photodocument their acts (smiling no less, for the sake of humiliating the captors) if those in charge had no knowledge of the goings-on.

 

There is still a lot that hasn't surfaced in regard to why the MPs were ordered to hand the facility operations over to military inteligence, and to who would have had the authority to subvert the chain of command in that fashion. Just today Rummy has made it clear that Guantanimo doesn't have to heed Geneva protocol since the detainees are terrorists and not military nationals that adhere to world laws. From the news account I read, Rummy neglected to comment on Afghan detention and interrogation procedures when asked if they adhered to Geneva, but seeing as the prisoners would be Al Quaida or Taliban which was not recognized by us as a legitimate government (unless WE were trying to point out their failures re Geneva adhereance). Those who should know are indicating that much of what occurred at Abu Ghraib was the typical order of the day in Afghanistan. Is it a big stretch to think that when Abu Ghraib operations were taken over by the GUY RUNNING GUANTANIMO that maybe he brought his Geneva-free mindset with him?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I was fairly shocked by the video but it is comparable to alot of the stuff I see in videos that Chechen rebels send to the families of captured Russian soldiers.  Obviously the Russian government has not been deterred.

 

America on the other hand could be a different story.  I think the fact that they have targetted some non-military personnel like Berg and Daniel Pearl also increases the impact.

is that the Russian video where the guy gets his neck sliced open? If so, that is one of the worst things i have ever seen, and so far has prevented me from watching this latest one. I dont know if i want that image in my head

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I was just checking Infowars.com  (Conservative/Libertarian site run by a big conspiracy theorist)

 

I dunno about the authenticity of the claims about the vid (I have yet to watch it) but he raises some interesting points that could be debated.

 

With several news outlets reporting that Berg's family is angry from the US government over their son's violent death and revelations that "Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24. He was turned over to U.S. officials and detained for 13 days" (in other words, he was detained by the US military just prior to his death) -- (AP 5/11/04) we have to question what really happened and who was really behind Berg's horrific murder.

 

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor

regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

 

2) CNN poll question:  "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any

remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?"  Bush has been reported to be

struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional

torture photos.  Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national security" issues for witholding additional materials.

 

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

 

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue (compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

 

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit).  Either he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to change).

 

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited.  Goes from a) Berg sitting in chair talking about family, to B) Berg sitting on floor with

hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost

motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

 

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

 

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on the same page.  Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what page he's on?

 

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

 

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

 

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood.  If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere.  Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

 

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground.  Although held down, Berg would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

 

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

 

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly

dubbed in.

 

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information

about his family.  Why?  To elicit greater sympathy?  Or to provide a

positive ID.  FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his

identity".  Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by

family.

 

It's cynical conspiracy theorist in me but this could be a psy ops operation. Berg video released at height of furor over U.S. torture of Iraqis and just before Bush was to decide whether to release additional torture videos.  Now torture videos will be witheld from public for reasons of national security.  Now "patriots" everywhere will laud the virtues of U.S. torture of "enemies".  Sensitivity level of public gets heightened in terms of what's acceptable treatment of prisoners. Juxtaposed with decapitation, piling naked men into pyramid is nothing. Such treatment will be considered more and more acceptable even in domestic situations.

I really hope even you dont believe that.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I just find the inconsistencies weird that Berg was held by US forces and then all of a sudden he's kidnapped by Al Qaeda. Something smells fishy.

 

Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive had he not been detained by U.S. officials in Iraq without being charged and without access to a lawyer. We detained him up to very close to his death. Then all of a sudden he's in the hands of Al Qaeda...it's more than a little odd.

 

Chi_Sox, I'm not saying that I lend 100% creedence to Alex Jones's ideas but skepticism about the vid is a good thing and necessary before all of us decide to go headlong into "Who gives a f*** if we torture them! Let Rummy keep his job!" etc. As they said during World War II and it's true now:

 

You can do anything to the American public as long as you scare the s*** out of them.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I just find the inconsistencies weird that Berg was held by US forces and then all of a sudden he's kidnapped by Al Qaeda.  Something smells fishy.

 

Michael Berg lashed out at the U.S. military and Bush administration, saying his son might still be alive had he not been detained by U.S. officials in Iraq without being charged and without access to a lawyer.  We detained him up to very close to his death.  Then all of a sudden he's in the hands of Al Qaeda...it's more than a little odd.

 

Chi_Sox, I'm not saying that I lend 100% creedence to Alex Jones's ideas but skepticism about the vid is a good thing and necessary before all of us decide to go headlong into "Who gives a f*** if we torture them!  Let Rummy keep his job!" etc.  As they said during World War II and it's true now:

 

You can do anything to the American public as long as you scare the s*** out of them.

Skepticism is fine, but as of now, there is nothing other than this guy's conspiracy theory to lead people to believe otherwise. Take it with a grain of salt if you want, im just saying i really hope you dont believe that whole thing.

[Flash Tizzle]

Apu, care to discuss your list?

 

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

 

Who is this guy, Darwin? African Americans are considered to have "lily-white hands," but it all depends on your pigmentation. Its possible the captors could of been light skinned Arabs.

 

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

 

LOL. If you've seen the video (which you haven't,Apu) several of the men ARE STANDING STILL THE ENTIRE MOVIE. How the hell can you say the way they stand is a "western style" Do people in the middle east stand in a different posture?

 

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood.  If Berg were still alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would have been spraying everywhere.  Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible blood on it.

 

So? The author appears to base his observations off Hollywood movies. Films such of Kill Bill showcase a decapitation followed by a geyser of blood. I know from Anatomy that's not true, and I don't need personal experience to prove myself. Think about it , what could be the only alternative to this situation: that his captures drained all the blood out of his body, it was a dummy, or this was real and since nobody has witnessed a decapitation they don't know what to expect.

 

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

Cmon, I suppose only the Arabian equivalent of Steven Spielberg would of better portrayed the agony of Berg's suffering.

 

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly

dubbed in.

Men can't scream like women? In the moments before his death Berg should of sounded more manly, as to quell all skeptics who are looking to question his execution.

 

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information

about his family.  Why?  To elicit greater sympathy?  Or to provide a

positive ID.  FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his

identity".  Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by

family.

 

First, he really didn't go to "great trouble" Haven't we all seen this before with captured Americans in Iraqi custody? They state their name, and where they're from; nothing odd.

 

 

Apu, I know you're always willing to search for any signs of a conspiracy, but you have to look at this situation and see it for what it is: an innocent man was brutally killed, and by suggesting US involvement (or some sort of "wagging the dog" theory) you're searching for an explanation while the video evidence is right in front of you. Watch the video first before suggesting some "psy ops operation."

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I have watched the vid since Prison Planet reposted now (It was taken down initially and then they put it up). The guy on the far right is pretty finicky with his movements throughout the video. It's just weird Berg goes from US custody to *wham* in the hands of these guys. It's fishy to say the least.

 

Even his hand didn't have blood. Even if it doesn't spray, it pools. Cutting off some guy's head, you're bound to get your hands stained with blood. The decapitator didn't. There are problems in consistence with the vid (see you didn't address most of the claims) and they need to be addressed.