baggio202 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 who's the better pitcher koch.....93.2 IP , 73H , 46BB , 93K , 11W - 4L , 44S , 6BS , 214BAA , 1.27WHIP marte...60.1 IP , 44H , 18BB , 72K , 1W - 1L , 10S , 2 BS , 204BAA , 1.03 WHIP if this trend continues , will billy koch become a 7 million doller set up man???...or because he earns the big bucks will he remain the closer regaurdless of how well marte pitches?? another question...with the development of marte and the signing of flash(though the flash signing was after the trade)...when we traded foulke would it have been better to trade him for a player in a different position???...what kind of a starting pitcher could we have gotten for foulke??..could we have gotten millwood for foulke??....they settled for a lot less than foulke...how cool would our rotation look now if that was the case???... colon , buehrle , millwood , wright . garland marte , gordon , white , wunsch , glover , munoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingrt13 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Koch is by far the better closer. At the closer postion the two most important things are attitude and experience. I think Koch has beaten Marte in both of those categories. I'm not saying Koch is a better pitcher which he might be at this point since Marte still is a little young but Koch I think has so much confidence in his stuff. Marte might end up being a better pitcher but it is to close to call now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I don't have the numbers on me, but isn't Koch younger then Marte or right around the same age? All I know is they both have tremendous stuff. The thing with me is I still see a lot of room for improvement with Koch. I also remember reading if you take two teams runs out against Koch, I think it as the Rangers and Blue Jays and he had an era under one or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 dont you think marte has a little more room for growth then koch??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Well, this is how I look at it. I think the two of them both have tremendous stuff. To me though, what happens if Koch develops better control, something he has slowly been doing since coming up to the majors a few years ago. Then those 44 walks drop down to 34, then maybe 24. Then lets say Marte gets much better control, how much better can his control really get? I guess I'm looking it as Marte already has a lot of those really refineably areas refined while Koch has been doing darn good despite the fact that he still has a lot of his game left to refine. Marte still has stuff to do as well and he's got filthy stuff. I can't complain about either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Yeah looks like these guys are both the same age since Feb. 14th (happy belated to Damaso btw). The difference I see is the presence of a blazing fastball for Koch and a little more control on Marte's part. Marte showed me alot last year in his first season of full-time duty. He pitched surprisingly well in the clutch for such an inexperienced player. The point is Koch is a paid closer and that has been his role for a while now. Moving Koch to setup could shatter his confidence while Marte seems comfortable in pretty much any role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Don't get me wrong, I really like Damaso, and his season last year was a great surprise after an unimpressive start early in the season. But let's not get too high on him just yet -- he's only been in the bigs for 1 full season. This season is going to be the true test. Hitters are going to have lots of tape to review, and are going to make adjustments that they may not have made last year. The best pitchers are those that can make adjustments to those adjustments -- hopefully he'll be one of those pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I like Koch as the closer, Marte still needs to show he can repeat last season. Plus Koch is the more experienced out of the two and that could be a big factor down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj1832 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Koch is defintely the closer. He has the experience and has proven to be one of the best in baseball. Marte pitched very well last year, but he still needs to prove it was not a fluke. He should be a great setup man and will be especially tough on left handed hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt4evah Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 well I think Koch was obviously worth the money. He showed what he could do in Oakland, and Foulke fell out of favor with Jerry, so I think it was a pretty even trade. And of course you can never have enough pitching... right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Koch is 100% closer stuff, and marte is probably one of the best setup mans in the bigs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I'd say Koch is the closer over Marte....however, baggs, I want to look at your idea earlier. Say we do trade Foulke for Millwood....our rotation is Colon, Buehrle, Millwood, Garland, Wright....the bullpen is Marte, Gordon, White, Wunsch, Glover and Sanders(I'd use him rather than Munoz...let Arnie build up his stamina in the minors...and from what Jim Bullard told us, Sanders does have a pretty good arm as it is)....that still leaves us with Valentine in the minors and MJ at the major league level. We could then have signed Alomar to either a minor league contract or taked him into being a coach. We then don't have to worry about healthy issues, our bullpen is deeper, and our lineup is just as good with a better backup catcher(though MJ is terrible as a starter). We don't have to worry about carrying 3 catchers, so our bench is probably Daubach, Graffy, MJ, Harris and someone else(maybe Miles, maybe Hummel, maybe we go with 12 pitchers, maybe we just switch these guys a lot...maybe we go with Borchard...something like that....maybe Rios even). Then, for hypothetical reasons, White goes down with an injury...we then have a good question to have to answer....do we use Ginter, Almonte, or Valentine? I guess that's why they say hindsight is always 20/20 Regardless...I like our bullpen as it is. We'll have Gordon in the 7th(95-97 MPH), Marte in the 8th(95-97 MPH), and then Koch in the 9th(97-100 MPH)....to go along with junk in Wunsch and some junk, some power in Glover and White. It's fine as it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Koch should definetley stay in the closers role. That is what we are paying him for. When we are winning games in the 9th by 3 or less (4 in some cases), I expect to see Koch out there saving that game. Marte is an extremely good pitcher, no doubt, but he should stay in the set-up man role. He did good there when he set up for Osuna or Foulke. When Marte was a set-up man, he did great. He did great also when he was a closer for the 13 games or so he came in as. He came in as a closer because we did not have a set closer, Foulke wasn't doing hot at all last year, and him and Osuna switched off. Now we do have a set closer in Billy Koch, and since we do, I think the set-up man role is set now with Marte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Koch should definetley stay in the closers role. That is what we are paying him for. When we are winning games in the 9th by 3 or less (4 in some cases), I expect to see Koch out there saving that game. Marte is an extremely good pitcher, no doubt, but he should stay in the set-up man role. He did good there when he set up for Osuna or Foulke. When Marte was a set-up man, he did great. He did great also when he was a closer for the 13 games or so he came in as. He came in as a closer because we did not have a set closer, Foulke wasn't doing hot at all last year, and him and Osuna switched off. Now we do have a set closer in Billy Koch, and since we do, I think the set-up man role is set now with Marte. I agree. It should be his job to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 who's the better pitcher koch.....93.2 IP , 73H , 46BB , 93K , 11W - 4L , 44S , 6BS , 214BAA , 1.27WHIP marte...60.1 IP , 44H , 18BB , 72K , 1W - 1L , 10S , 2 BS , 204BAA , 1.03 WHIP if this trend continues , will billy koch become a 7 million doller set up man???...or because he earns the big bucks will he remain the closer regaurdless of how well marte pitches?? another question...with the development of marte and the signing of flash(though the flash signing was after the trade)...when we traded foulke would it have been better to trade him for a player in a different position???...what kind of a starting pitcher could we have gotten for foulke??..could we have gotten millwood for foulke??....they settled for a lot less than foulke...how cool would our rotation look now if that was the case???... colon , buehrle , millwood , wright . garland marte , gordon , white , wunsch , glover , munoz Just a quick note if we traded for Millwood I really doubt that we would have added Colon as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Marte did a damn good job last year, but Koch was acquired to be the closer. He's been a solid closer for 3 years or so. He was thr Rolaids AL Fireman of the Year last season. Seems to me that this issue was decided the day the trade was announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 Marte did a damn good job last year, but Koch was acquired to be the closer. He's been a solid closer for 3 years or so. He was thr Rolaids AL Fireman of the Year last season. Seems to me that this issue was decided the day the trade was announced. actually he was anything but solid in '01....4.80 era and 8 blown saves...if he pitches like that for us he will be out of a job faster than foulke was.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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