Should we be preventing a civil war in Iraq?

[JUGGERNAUT]

In my opinion we have bitten off more than we can chew in Iraq.

I hear this figure that 95% of Iraqi's want us there & it's only 5% who don't.

Then I see dancing in the streets of Baghdad after seeing Bergs public execution.

 

So I say to myself, if 95% of Iraqi's want us there why aren't they actively showing their support? If the answer is fear for their lives than the cause simply is not important enough for us to be there. I'm sorry but that's the way it is in war. If you're not willing to risk your life for the cause than the cause is not important enough to fight for.

 

In my opinion the 95% is an over-estimated account. It's probably more along the lines of what it is in S Korea today (70% for the US, 30% vs the US). Only there the 30% represent the young you take freedom & democracy for granted & the 70% represent the old that are well aware of the old days & never want to go back to them.

 

In any case, we need to let the politics of the region run it's course. We should stop trying to prevent a civil war, secure the oil fields & withdraw back to American friendly regions in Iraq. Those would be the ones under Kurdish control. For those who support us, they should be given the opportunity to withdraw. We are spending an insane amount of $ so better it be spent to employ, house, & feed are supporters than to be wasted on preventing a civil war. Once we have secured their safety amongst the Kurds. We let the Kurds battle our enemies for the control of the rest of the Iraq. An all-out Iraqi battle royale to determine the future of the nation.

 

Likewise we let the Kurds weed out the spies that will inevitably come across as refugees. They know how to do that much better than we ever could. As long as they kill at a rate that prevents depiction of a slaughter it can't be viewed by the world as anything any more than a civil war. Which is usually viewed as a just war in the eyes of public opinion. It's just politics of the region.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

In my opinion we have bitten off more than we can chew in Iraq.

I hear this figure that 95% of Iraqi's want us there & it's only 5% who don't.

Then I see dancing in the streets of Baghdad after seeing Bergs public execution.

 

So I say to myself, if 95% of Iraqi's want us there why aren't they actively showing their support?  If the answer is fear for their lives than the cause simply is not important enough for us to be there.  I'm sorry but that's the way it is in war.  If you're not willing to risk your life for the cause than the cause is not important enough to fight for.

 

In my opinion the 95% is an over-estimated account.  It's probably more along the lines of what it is in S Korea today (70% for the US, 30% vs the US).  Only there the 30% represent the young you take freedom & democracy for granted & the 70% represent the old that are well aware of the old days & never want to go back to them.

 

In any case, we need to let the politics of the region run it's course.  We should stop trying to prevent a civil war, secure the oil fields & withdraw back to American friendly regions in Iraq.  Those would be the ones under Kurdish control. For those who support us, they should be given the opportunity to withdraw.  We are spending an insane amount of $ so better it be spent to employ, house, & feed are supporters than to be wasted on preventing a civil war. Once we have secured their safety amongst the Kurds.  We let the Kurds battle our enemies for the control of the rest of the Iraq.  An all-out Iraqi battle royale to determine the future of the nation.

 

Likewise we let the Kurds weed out the spies that will inevitably come across as refugees.  They know how to do that much better than we ever could.  As long as they kill at a rate that prevents depiction of a slaughter it can't be viewed by the world as anything any more than a civil war.  Which is usually viewed as a just war in the eyes of public opinion. It's just politics of the region.

Um, I have no clue what poll you're looking at. The only major one done by the Gallup company in Iraq in all regions shows 57% of the country does not want the US forces there even though they believe it will make the country more violent.

 

From USA Today:

But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

 

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite Muslims who were oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who embraced him.

 

Bearing the brunt of Iraqis' ill feeling: U.S. troops. The most visible symbol of the occupation, they are viewed by many Iraqis as uncaring, dangerous and lacking in respect for the country's people, religion and traditions.

 

The insurgents, by contrast, seem to be gaining broad acceptance, if not outright support. If the Kurds, who make up about 13% of the poll, are taken out of the equation, more than half of Iraqis say killing U.S. troops can be justified in at least some cases. But attacks against Iraqi police officers, who are U.S.-trained, are strongly condemned by the Iraqi people.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

You know what really eats me up about Iraqi's is how stupid they are.

 

They want us gone, ok fine, we dont really want to be there either. If they would just f***ing behave themselves for 6 months or so we'd leave but they dont grasp that. They think that messing with us is gonna make us leave. They have it totally backwards.

 

Idiots.

[Kid Gleason]

I'd gladly ride my bike everywhere if it meant getting out of that joint and forgetting the Middle East even existed all together.

[BrandoFan]

In my opinion we have bitten off more than we can chew in Iraq.

 

See now I remember you dancing on your keyboard during Shock & Awe and generally parroting every transparent right-wing slogan/war justification under the sun.

 

My my, how the times change.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Um, I have no clue what poll you're looking at.  The only major one done by the Gallup company in Iraq in all regions shows 57% of the country does not want the US forces there even though they believe it will make the country more violent.

 

From USA Today:

But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

 

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite Muslims who were oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who embraced him.

 

Bearing the brunt of Iraqis' ill feeling: U.S. troops. The most visible symbol of the occupation, they are viewed by many Iraqis as uncaring, dangerous and lacking in respect for the country's people, religion and traditions.

 

The insurgents, by contrast, seem to be gaining broad acceptance, if not outright support. If the Kurds, who make up about 13% of the poll, are taken out of the equation, more than half of Iraqis say killing U.S. troops can be justified in at least some cases. But attacks against Iraqi police officers, who are U.S.-trained, are strongly condemned by the Iraqi people.

I was referring to what someone else had posted & clearly in my original post I was skeptical of that number. But your post hits the nail right on the head because you have a breakdown of Kurds vs non-Kurds. Your post only strengthens the argument that pretty much the only role the US is playing right now is that of preventing civil war & that the cost is far to high for little to gain.

 

With respect to Shock & Awe you're darn right I was happy to see it.

I didn't think we could afford it but I didn't know Saddam was feeding Kurds feet first through industrial strength plastic shredders either. If nothing else we have once & for all put an end to that kind of tyranny against the Kurdish people.

 

Again this seems pretty simple. The non-Kurds don't like us & the Kurds do. So let's leave writhdraw to US friendly terr controlled by the Kurds & let the Kurds go at it for the rest.

[israel4ever]

Years ago when Iraq and Iran were at war with each other, the then PM of Israel was asked "how do you feel about the Iran-Iraq war?".

 

His response, "I wish both sides the best of luck.".

 

I feel the same way...Arabs killing Arabs...who cares?

 

[JUGGERNAUT]

My catch phrase for today:

$1 rise in a barrel of oil = $7 BIL decrease in US purch power.

 

Ok it's not really catchy but the point is obvious. Back the Kurds & work a deal to secure an Iraqi oil supply for the US for years to come.