JDsDirtySox Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 M's GM Bill Bavasi said no deals are near, but rumors are circulating the Red Sox and Royals are trying to entice the Mariners into a three-way trade. Boston would trade pitcher Byung Hyun Kim and, possibly, outfielder Johnny Damon to the Mariners in exchange for pitcher Freddy Garcia and minor league starter Cha Seung Baek. If the Red Sox could get the Mariners to bite, Garcia would then be shipped to Kansas City, with outfielder Carlos Beltran going to Boston. I don't really understand why KC would want to do this, but I won't be in line to stop them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocking Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 and where are you hearing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 First saw it on BenMaller.com Then I found this info in the Seattle Post Intelligencer. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/173371_mari14.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocking Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/173371_mari14.html thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'm surprise the Royals would do this considering on what they want in return for Beltran (stud cather, 3rd baseman etc..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSox30 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Sub Reason Why Red Sox Are Doing This.... so he isn't in pinstripes next year!!! yankees want beltran!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The Royals want pitching pitching and more pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The Royals want pitching pitching and more pitching. so do the Sox, so we'll see who gets what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Sub Reason Why Red Sox Are Doing This.... so he isn't in pinstripes next year!!! yankees want beltran!!! They are doing this because the Yankee$ took Arod away from them so they are gonna try and do the same with Beltran.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 This is another rumor floating around on the Red Sox board I go to, and It really seems like a bogus made up report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'm surprise the Royals would do this considering on what they want in return for Beltran (stud cather, 3rd baseman etc..) They already have one of the best outfield prospects in baseball in David DeJesus, all there looking for right now is pitching, so i propose... Red Sox get: Carlos Beltran ($11.0 in 2004, arbitration/free agency/contract in 2005) -$1.5 in 2004 Royals get: Freddy Garcia ($7.0 in 2004, arbitration/free agency/contract in 2005) Derek Lowe ($4.5 in 2004, free agency/contract in 2005) +$0.5 in 2004 Mariners get: Johnny Damon ($8.0 in 2004, $8.5 in 2005) +$1.0 in 2004 The Red Sox get there man, and even though they add on another free agent to be, they get him for this year, which is "the year" remember... The Royals get two stud righties for the 04 season, and find themselves with the best rotation in the AL Central, they give DeJesus the chance he deserves and everyones happy in KC. The Mariners get Damon, who as a player I love, but whose contract I can't stand. The Mariners are only taking on so much money with Garcia leaving, they get the offense they need and they can finally move Ichiro back to a spot in the line-up he belongs in, something other than the lead off spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The Red Sox are going to struggle to resign all these players with all the FAs they have after this season, but that'd be a hell of a move for them. I want Garcia on the WHITE Sox though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The way I see it... Lowe will not be given his Boras-inflated ridiculous contract and will be let go... Arn Tellen was an idiot once, and will not get another chance to be an idiot and Nomar will be let go... Pedro, Varitek, Ortiz will all be resigned.. If this trade does go down... Pedro, Ortiz, Beltran would be resigned and top prospect Kelly Shoppach would become the catcher after the departure of Varitek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Can't see the Mariners takin Damon when they already hav Randy Winn and Ichiro, 2 similar type of outfielders. I still think they get desperate and trade Garcia for Griffey Jr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 The original trade purposal makes no sense. Boston gets away with highway robbery, while neither Seattle or KC improve themselves now or in the future. From a KC standpoint - If they are going to trade Beltran, than they will probably want 2-3 top prospects who could contribute very soon. This would signify that they are giving up on this season, which is unlikely this early in the year. Getting Garcia makes no sense. While KC really needs pitching, Garcia isn't going to add more than Beltran subtracts. Beltran is probably the most complete player in the majors, and trading him essentially straight up for Garcia doesn't improve their team now or in the near future. While DeJesus is a decent prospect, lets not forget that he went 1-23 before being sent back down to the minors, so DeJesus and Garcia isn't better than Beltran. So what benefit does KC get for making this trade? From a Seattle standpoint - They are giving up their most consistant starter, and a pretty good prospect for a struggling pitcher who was recently sent to the minors, and an outfielder that doesn't provide that much offense. Besides, Seattle has a full outfield with Ibanez, Ichiro, and Winn, so Damon doesn't have a position to play, and Damon isn't significantly better than any of those three. This move doesn't improve them this year or in the future, so why would they make this trade? From a Boston standpoint - You are drooling at the possibility of this move. Beltran is a significant improvement over Damon, and you keep him from going to the Yankees. You only have to give up a struggling pitcher who isn't even on your major league roster. This trade clearly benefits the Red Sox, while ripping off the other teams involved. From a Sox standpoint - If Seattle wants some offensive improvement, than I am sure that the Sox will throw CLee their way. CLee will give them much needed power, which is needed more than Damon's OBP and slap hittiing(considering that they already have two similar guys in Winn and Ichiro as someone already mentioned). The Sox would probably throw in Rauch to give them a decent young arm to replace Garcia with. The Sox get a much needed top of the rotation veteran pitcher, and can call up Reed to take over in LF and provide a solid top of the order hitter. CLee and Rauch would be a much better package than Damon and Kim IMO. Red and White, your purposal is a little more fair, but Seattle gets the raw end of the deal. What benefit does Seattle get from trading their top pitcher(this season) for a guy without a position to play and who doesn't provide the offensive boost that they needs? That would be a tempting deal for KC. Two very good starters for Beltran would be interesting and might be a net improvement, especially if DeJesus can perform better than his 1-23 performance earlier in the year. This would make it a much tougher decision for Boston. It is a no-brainer to give up a struggling pitcher like Kim to get a significant improvement in CF with Beltran, but to give up an important starter like Lowe would bring up the following question, does the improvement that Beltran provides over Damon outweight the decrease that would occur from putting Kim back in the rotation for Kim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 (edited) The original trade purposal makes no sense. Boston gets away with highway robbery, while neither Seattle or KC improve themselves now or in the future. From a KC standpoint - If they are going to trade Beltran, than they will probably want 2-3 top prospects who could contribute very soon. This would signify that they are giving up on this season, which is unlikely this early in the year. Getting Garcia makes no sense. While KC really needs pitching, Garcia isn't going to add more than Beltran subtracts. Beltran is probably the most complete player in the majors, and trading him essentially straight up for Garcia doesn't improve their team now or in the near future. While DeJesus is a decent prospect, lets not forget that he went 1-23 before being sent back down to the minors, so DeJesus and Garcia isn't better than Beltran. So what benefit does KC get for making this trade? From a Seattle standpoint - They are giving up their most consistant starter, and a pretty good prospect for a struggling pitcher who was recently sent to the minors, and an outfielder that doesn't provide that much offense. Besides, Seattle has a full outfield with Ibanez, Ichiro, and Winn, so Damon doesn't have a position to play, and Damon isn't significantly better than any of those three. This move doesn't improve them this year or in the future, so why would they make this trade? From a Boston standpoint - You are drooling at the possibility of this move. Beltran is a significant improvement over Damon, and you keep him from going to the Yankees. You only have to give up a struggling pitcher who isn't even on your major league roster. This trade clearly benefits the Red Sox, while ripping off the other teams involved. From a Sox standpoint - If Seattle wants some offensive improvement, than I am sure that the Sox will throw CLee their way. CLee will give them much needed power, which is needed more than Damon's OBP and slap hittiing(considering that they already have two similar guys in Winn and Ichiro as someone already mentioned). The Sox would probably throw in Rauch to give them a decent young arm to replace Garcia with. The Sox get a much needed top of the rotation veteran pitcher, and can call up Reed to take over in LF and provide a solid top of the order hitter. CLee and Rauch would be a much better package than Damon and Kim IMO. Red and White, your purposal is a little more fair, but Seattle gets the raw end of the deal. What benefit does Seattle get from trading their top pitcher(this season) for a guy without a position to play and who doesn't provide the offensive boost that they needs? That would be a tempting deal for KC. Two very good starters for Beltran would be interesting and might be a net improvement, especially if DeJesus can perform better than his 1-23 performance earlier in the year. This would make it a much tougher decision for Boston. It is a no-brainer to give up a struggling pitcher like Kim to get a significant improvement in CF with Beltran, but to give up an important starter like Lowe would bring up the following question, does the improvement that Beltran provides over Damon outweight the decrease that would occur from putting Kim back in the rotation for Kim? One thing I will mention... This deal seems very similar to the one proposed during the ARod fiasco with going to Boston. Something along the lines of a 6-team deal(with Boston receiving about everyone and everything they need while other teams do nothing to really improve themselves at all)...I think it had the White Sox getting Johnny Damon and Scott Williamson, Texas getting Manny from Boston and Eckstein from Anaheim, Garciaparra going to Anaheim, Trot Nixon going to Milwaukee, and the Red Sox getting ARod, Maggs, Geoff Jenkins, and Jarrod Washburn...it was some crazy-ass s*** like that, and it was totally goofy. I believe it was posted on here, and if I can find it, I will provide a link EDIT: I found the link. Only problem is the Red Sox site crashed and the backup was gone along with everything else, so the article in reference is no longer in existance. To prove it was around, here is the link to the thread in which it was brought up. From what I can tell, it kind of broke down something like this... Boston gets: ARod, Maggs, Jenkins, Beltran, Mota, and Perez Texas gets: Lowe and Miller KC gets: Nixon and prospects Milwaukee gets: Kapler and prospects LA gets: Manny Chicago gets: Johnny Damon and Scott Williamson It was something close to that(though Lowe may have been involved as well...it was too long ago and is not mentioned anywhere in there), and I remember a lot of teams getting ripped off in the deal horribly, like the Sox and Dodgers. I do remember thinking right away that Milwaukee would be getting raped in the deal...give up a good LH hitter for a guy who won't hit 10 homers? As I said in that thread, and as I will say in this thread...a Red Sox fan's wet dream. BTW, here's a link... LINK Edited May 15, 2004 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 One thing I will mention... This deal seems very similar to the one proposed during the ARod fiasco with going to Boston. Something along the lines of a 6-team deal(with Boston receiving about everyone and everything they need while other teams do nothing to really improve themselves at all)...I think it had the White Sox getting Johnny Damon and Scott Williamson, Texas getting Manny from Boston and Eckstein from Anaheim, Garciaparra going to Anaheim, Trot Nixon going to Milwaukee, and the Red Sox getting ARod, Maggs, Geoff Jenkins, and Jarrod Washburn...it was some crazy-ass s*** like that, and it was totally goofy. I believe it was posted on here, and if I can find it, I will provide a link EDIT: I found the link. Only problem is the Red Sox site crashed and the backup was gone along with everything else, so the article in reference is no longer in existance. To prove it was around, here is the link to the thread in which it was brought up. From what I can tell, it kind of broke down something like this... Boston gets: ARod, Maggs, Jenkins, Beltran, Mota, and Perez Texas gets: Lowe and Miller KC gets: Nixon and prospects Milwaukee gets: Kapler and prospects LA gets: Manny Chicago gets: Johnny Damon and Scott Williamson It was something close to that(though Lowe may have been involved as well...it was too long ago and is not mentioned anywhere in there), and I remember a lot of teams getting ripped off in the deal horribly, like the Sox and Dodgers. I do remember thinking right away that Milwaukee would be getting raped in the deal...give up a good LH hitter for a guy who won't hit 10 homers? As I said in that thread, and as I will say in this thread...a Red Sox fan's wet dream. BTW, here's a link... LINK The Red Sox were slated to get Maggs and Arod only for Kim and Williamson.. there was no other stipulation in the trade.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 Just a Youkilis update... He's making his major league debut today with Bill Mueller hurting, and he hit a 2 run shot in his second at bat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 KC has no reason to settle for what amounts as Beltran for Garcia. Especially since Steinbrenner wants Beltran as much as Boston does. Right now the NYY are using Lofton in CF & Williams at DH & it seems to be working for them. Clearly signing Beltran to a 100+ MIL deal is an obvious choice for NY to make. We know that the Yanks have made trades in the past to prevent BOS from getting players & this will be no different. The Yanks have enough parts to where they can pull in other teams to create a better pkg for KC. The Yanks do not need both Williams & Giambi so what would either of these players at a discount get them from other teams? Because that's how the Yanks work. They take their high priced older talent + cash & swap it out for younger talent. The obvious trade to consider is this: KC -> Beltran to NYY NYY-> Giambi+cash to OAK OAK-> The least of Hudson, Mulder, & Zito to KC Now you're talking one of the best pitchers in the league for arguably the best CF in the league. Is this really far-fetched since Williams is now a DH & the NYY have 1B prospects in their system? OAK is struggling to score runs & looks like it might miss the post-season. Giambi+cash is looking pretty good right now to both provide a jolt to the weak fan base & make a run for the post-season. The Yanks might not even have to give up the A's pitcher in this trade. If they wait long enough they might be able to give up Lieber & a package instead. If the rumors out of BOS grow to the point they did with BOS & Colon I would expect the NYY to step up & make this trade. You can find a big bat 1B in just about any year in FA. But to find a future MVP GG CF .. well that's pretty rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 NYY could use the SOX on this as well. NYY -> Giambi+prospect+cash to SOX SOX -> Buerhle, Koney to NYY NYY -> Buerhle to KC KC -> Beltran to the NYY And there are many others. The fact is that NYY has Giambi+cash to waive at any team with a good starting pitcher to use to get Beltran. Giambi at a discount is enough for most teams to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 IIRC, Giambi signed with the Yankees because they provided him with a no-trade clause, and Oakland did not. I'm sure he will shoot down any trade involving him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 IIRC, Giambi signed with the Yankees because they provided him with a no-trade clause, and Oakland did not. I'm sure he will shoot down any trade involving him I'm not so sure about that. What's the history of any player invoking such a clause against the NYY's? I think the media power that George possesses makes that a living hell in NY for any player who tries to invoke it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2004 Share Posted May 15, 2004 I'm not so sure about that. What's the history of any player invoking such a clause against the NYY's? I think the media power that George possesses makes that a living hell in NY for any player who tries to invoke it. This is probably true. Regardless, Giambi is due like $18 mill in a couple years, and $21 mill about a year or two after that. Unless New York wants to take on about $10 mill of that(which they very well could), I don't see how this deal favors the Sox in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Giambi would be huge for the Sox, espcailly with the Italaian Sox fans. Giambi could be very big in Chicago. He would have to be big as hell with the fans, because with this contract, JR is going to need help paying for it. Jason Giambi 1B NYY Signed Dec 2001 - 7 years/$120M 2002: $8.0M (+$17.0M signing bonus paid over 6 years) 2003: $9.0M 2004: $10.0M 2005: $11.0M 2006: $18.0M 2007: $21.0M 2008: $21.0M 2009: Team option $22.0M or $5.0M buyout I could handle the $10 mill this year or the $11 mill next year...but the $18 mill in 06, and $21 in 07 and 08 would be a huge burden on the Sox unless they get rid of him/have the Yankees take on some of it/hope it pays itself in the end with all the attention the move gets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 No way do the Yankees even consider this... Giambi will be in New York until either his contract runs out or until the last year of his contract in which the yankees will have to pay up to even 15 million dollars to have him play for another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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