Poor Royce Clayton

[clujer420]

Poor Royce. He's gotten so much flack for his performance while he was with the Sox, and it's really unfortunate IMO.

 

His average in 2 years with the Sox was .260, with 16 HR and 90 RBI (in the #9 hole, keep in mind). He had a fielding percentage of almost 99%, and saved many runs with plays that shortstops before him wouldn't have made (like Mike Caruso, ugh). Sure, he struck out a bit much (135 in those 2 seasons), but he wasn't nearly as bad as some people make him sound. Compare his K's (in 2001 and 2002 combined) to Magglio (147), Frank (127 in a little more than 1 season), Paulie (161), and Carlos (158). Hell, Ray struck out almost that much every year. Sure, Royce was no A-Rod or Jeter (or even Tejada or Nomar), but he did what he was brought in for -- to solidify us defensively up the middle.

 

The Sox did poorly in 2001 and 2002, but it wasn't because of Royce Clayton, as much as some of you would like to make him the scapegoat.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

Poor Royce.  He's gotten so much flack for his performance while he was with the Sox, and it's really unfortunate IMO.  

 

His average in 2 years with the Sox was .260, with 16 HR and 90 RBI (in the #9 hole, keep in mind).  He had a fielding percentage of almost 99%, and saved many runs with plays that shortstops before him wouldn't have made (like Mike Caruso, ugh).  Sure, he struck out a bit much (135 in those 2 seasons), but he wasn't nearly as bad as some people make him sound.  Compare his K's (in 2001 and 2002 combined) to Magglio (147), Frank (127 in a little more than 1 season), Paulie (161), and Carlos (158).  Hell, Ray struck out almost that much every year.  Sure, Royce was no A-Rod or Jeter (or even Tejada or Nomar), but he did what he was brought in for -- to solidify us defensively up the middle.

 

The Sox did poorly in 2001 and 2002, but it wasn't because of Royce Clayton, as much as some of you would like to make him the scapegoat.

but you gotta admit we would have done better in 2001 and 02 with mike caruso as opposed to kla-ton..... at least his bat would have been better lol.lol.lol.lol.......

[mac9001]

Its not Royce the player, its Royce the person i hate. The guy is a dumbass, nuff said.

[clujer420]

Its not Royce the player, its Royce the person i hate. The guy is a dumbass, nuff said.

I didn't know intelligence was a pre-requisite for an athlete. He's got baseball smarts, and that's all that counts out there on the field. I wouldn't want him tutoring me in Calculus, but if I need someone to show me the fundamentals of playing shortstop, he'd be high on my list.

[clujer420]

but you gotta admit we would have done better in 2001 and 02 with mike caruso as opposed to kla-ton.....

Let's see...

 

In Caruso's 2 years with the Sox, he hit about .280 with 7 HR and 90 RBI, struck out twice as much as he walked, and committed 59 errors. Compare that to Royce (.260, 16, 95, lots of K's, and 12 errors). Mike's average was higher, but when you factor in the errors, you definitely have to say Royce was better overall.

 

Better off with Caruso? You've gotta be joking.

[cwsox]

Poor Royce.  He's gotten so much flack for his performance while he was with the Sox, and it's really unfortunate IMO. 

 

His average in 2 years with the Sox was .260, with 16 HR and 90 RBI (in the #9 hole, keep in mind).  He had a fielding percentage of almost 99%, and saved many runs with plays that shortstops before him wouldn't have made (like Mike Caruso, ugh).  Sure, he struck out a bit much (135 in those 2 seasons), but he wasn't nearly as bad as some people make him sound.  Compare his K's (in 2001 and 2002 combined) to Magglio (147), Frank (127 in a little more than 1 season), Paulie (161), and Carlos (158).  Hell, Ray struck out almost that much every year.  Sure, Royce was no A-Rod or Jeter (or even Tejada or Nomar), but he did what he was brought in for -- to solidify us defensively up the middle.

 

The Sox did poorly in 2001 and 2002, but it wasn't because of Royce Clayton, as much as some of you would like to make him the scapegoat.

I am glad that someone has taken the mantle from me and assumed it for their own self you did fail to add Royce's hustle on the bases - but expect to get a lot of heat. Better you than me - I got all the flaming on Royce the last two years.

 

And I always knew there was another Clayton fan (or at least, non-attacker) out there!

 

My prayers are with you

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

but you gotta admit we would have done better in 2001 and 02 with mike caruso as opposed to kla-ton.....

Let's see...

 

In Caruso's 2 years with the Sox, he hit about .280 with 7 HR and 90 RBI, struck out twice as much as he walked, and committed 59 errors. Compare that to Royce (.260, 16, 95, lots of K's, and 12 errors). Mike's average was higher, but when you factor in the errors, you definitely have to say Royce was better overall.

 

Better off with Caruso? You've gotta be joking.

oh geez us h rice......its a freakin joke.. what are you kla-ton in disguise ....give it a rest.. no one here likes the little asshole but cwsox so your preaching to the wrong choir...........lighten up ok............lol

[clujer420]

I am glad that someone has taken the mantle from me and assumed it for their own self you did fail to add Royce's hustle on the bases - but expect to get a lot of heat.  Better you than me - I got all the flaming on Royce the last two years.

 

And I always knew there was another Clayton fan (or at least, non-attacker) out there!

 

My prayers are with you

I'm actually not a fan of his. But, I've seen him get ripped enough, and I'm sick of it. We didn't win in 2001 because we got decemated by injuries, and the guys who stepped in did not step up. We didn't win in 2002 because we were cocking coming into the season because we were "heathy", and when things started to go bad, Frank got bombarded by the media (largely his fault, yes), and then the chemistry of the team was killed. Keith fell out of favor with the team (something MUST have happened that we didn't hear about, because a closer of his caliber doesn't get benched for 2 or 3 bad games unless something else is going on), and by the time the team found it's stride, it was 3 months too late.

 

Now that Royce is gone, he's the easy target, and it's unfortunate. Just say what happened - the whole team lost, and it wasn't because of 1 person. It's NEVER because of 1 person. We win as a team, and we lose as a team.

[CubKilla]

f*** K-layton. For a guy that couldn't even hardly make contact with the ball for the first half of both 2001 and 2002, he was the cockiest player on the team. Then, when his bat finally made that "THWACK" sound which accompanies actually making contact with the ball, the White Sox were out of it. Couple that with him sulking and acting like a little b**** when JM sat him for a game about 3/4's of the way through 2002 and he put on street shoes instead of his cleats to protest, and you have the makings of a Grade-A Asshole. Not to mention him dating Frank's ex-wife AND one of Frank's ex-g/f's and you have what you call a "cancer" in the clubhouse. Is it any wonder Frank started to hit after that jag off was released? And, if he's so f***ing good, why didn't a playoff contender that could have used SS help (there were one or two contending teams at the time of his release) pick his useless ass up? Because other Organizations learned from what happened with him here (not that KW wasn't warned about it also before signing the dickhead). Now, Klayton gets to sulk and cry and whine and pout and blame everyone else but himself in Milwaukee. Yep..... f*** KLAYTON.

[clujer420]

but you gotta admit we would have done better in 2001 and 02 with mike caruso as opposed to kla-ton.....

Let's see...

 

In Caruso's 2 years with the Sox, he hit about .280 with 7 HR and 90 RBI, struck out twice as much as he walked, and committed 59 errors. Compare that to Royce (.260, 16, 95, lots of K's, and 12 errors). Mike's average was higher, but when you factor in the errors, you definitely have to say Royce was better overall.

 

Better off with Caruso? You've gotta be joking.

oh geez us h rice......its a freakin joke.. what are you kla-ton in disguise ....give it a rest.. no one here likes the little asshole but cwsox so your preaching to the wrong choir...........lighten up ok............lol

It doesn't matter to me if you dislike the guy -- but dislike him for the right reasons, not because he "cost the Sox the pennant", or something absurd like that. We weren't going to win in 2001 or 2002, even if he had hit .300.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

but you gotta admit we would have done better in 2001 and 02 with mike caruso as opposed to kla-ton.....

Let's see...

 

In Caruso's 2 years with the Sox, he hit about .280 with 7 HR and 90 RBI, struck out twice as much as he walked, and committed 59 errors. Compare that to Royce (.260, 16, 95, lots of K's, and 12 errors). Mike's average was higher, but when you factor in the errors, you definitely have to say Royce was better overall.

 

Better off with Caruso? You've gotta be joking.

oh geez us h rice......its a freakin joke.. what are you kla-ton in disguise ....give it a rest.. no one here likes the little asshole but cwsox so your preaching to the wrong choir...........lighten up ok............lol

It doesn't matter to me if you dislike the guy -- but dislike him for the right reasons, not because he "cost the Sox the pennant", or something absurd like that. We weren't going to win in 2001 or 2002, even if he had hit .300.

no we werent.... not all of its his fault and i dont blame him alone for it, but thats not the reason i dont like the little asshole........ i dont like the him cause he caused a few problems in the clubhouse that didnt need to be caused..........f*** him, im glad hes gone...........why are we even talking about him anyhow..........does anyone still care???????

[Chisoxfn]

Clujer I agree with you as well. It wasn't just Claytons fault and he did what he was acquired for which was play defense. That being said, he was a jerk in the clubhouse and that effected a lot of things. Either way last years team and the one before wouldn't of won, even if he was hitting .300, like you said.

 

Glad he's gone though, that way its not an excuse; Plus the Sox are winning it all this year

[clujer420]

f*** K-layton. For a guy that couldn't even hardly make contact with the ball for the first half of both 2001 and 2002, he was the cockiest player on the team. Then, when his bat finally made that "THWACK" sound which accompanies actually making contact with the ball, the White Sox were out of it. Couple that with him sulking and acting like a little b**** when JM sat him for a game about 3/4's of the way through 2002 and he put on street shoes instead of his cleats to protest, and you have the makings of a Grade-A Asshole. Not to mention him dating Frank's ex-wife AND one of Frank's ex-g/f's and you have what you call a "cancer" in the clubhouse. Is it any wonder Frank started to hit after that jag off was released? And, if he's so f***ing good, why didn't a playoff contender that could have used SS help (there were one or two contending teams at the time of his release) pick his useless ass up? Because other Organizations learned from what happened with him here (not that KW wasn't warned about it also before signing the dickhead). Now, Klayton gets to sulk and cry and whine and pout and blame everyone else but himself in Milwaukee.  Yep..... f*** KLAYTON.

Did I say he was one of the top SS's in the game? No

Did I say he was a model citizen or teammate? No

 

What I did say is that he solidified the Sox up the middle, and that defense he provided saved many runs with diving stops and many good DP turns.

 

And don't confuse "cocky" with "confident". He knew what he was capable of, and when the team stuck with him in 2001, he hit about .300 after the AS break, and may have done the same in 2002 if he hadn't been benched. And yes, it was well after the Sox were out of the race when it didn't matter anymore -- but that's not his fault. And also, I remember when he was benched. Wasn't that just days after Jerry announced that Clayton was going to remain the starting SS? I'd be pissed too if my boss did that to me.

[clujer420]

im glad hes gone...........why are we even talking about him anyhow..........does anyone still care???????

I'm actually glad he's gone too. I think we're much better off with Valentin/Crede than we were last season with Valentin/Clayton, and Jose prefers SS to 3rd anyway. So he'll be happier, and Crede should provide much more offense than Royce did.

 

But I'm not the one who brought his name up. When people stop trampling his name, my defense of him will stop, but not until then.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

f*** K-layton. For a guy that couldn't even hardly make contact with the ball for the first half of both 2001 and 2002, he was the cockiest player on the team. Then, when his bat finally made that "THWACK" sound which accompanies actually making contact with the ball, the White Sox were out of it. Couple that with him sulking and acting like a little b**** when JM sat him for a game about 3/4's of the way through 2002 and he put on street shoes instead of his cleats to protest, and you have the makings of a Grade-A Asshole. Not to mention him dating Frank's ex-wife AND one of Frank's ex-g/f's and you have what you call a "cancer" in the clubhouse. Is it any wonder Frank started to hit after that jag off was released? And, if he's so f***ing good, why didn't a playoff contender that could have used SS help (there were one or two contending teams at the time of his release) pick his useless ass up? Because other Organizations learned from what happened with him here (not that KW wasn't warned about it also before signing the dickhead). Now, Klayton gets to sulk and cry and whine and pout and blame everyone else but himself in Milwaukee.  Yep..... f*** KLAYTON.

Holy f***. I actually agree with CubKilla.

 

K-Layton can go suck a f***. He's a useless piece of s*** that can rot on the Brewers with Todd.

 

f*** the Brewers and f*** K-Layton.

[clujer420]

K-Layton can go suck a f***.  He's a useless piece of s*** that can rot on the Brewers with Todd.

 

f*** the Brewers and f*** K-Layton.

With an argument like that, how can I argue?

 

I'm begging for a half-way intelligent post that refutes what I've said so far about Clayton's stay with the Sox. One free of 10,000 .........'s, typos, and profanity. The presence of profanity further shows that you not only don't have anything important to say, but also that you're not very bright.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

K-Layton can go suck a f***.  He's a useless piece of s*** that can rot on the Brewers with Todd.

 

f*** the Brewers and f*** K-Layton.

With an argument like that, how can I argue?

 

I'm begging for a half-way intelligent post that refutes what I've said so far about Clayton's stay with the Sox. One free of 10,000 .........'s, typos, and profanity. The presence of profanity further shows that you not only don't have anything important to say, but also that you're not very bright.

K-Layton was a clubhouse cancer. He and Johnson were the Trash Brothers (as coined by the SnR staff) Royce was always nearly a guaranteed out whenever we needed him to get a clutch hit. He was Royce the Rally Killer.

The guy couldn't bat his way out of a wet paper bag and he had the attitude that he was the best player in baseball history. I can recount numerous games from last season listening to SnR and all of us Sox fan listeners b****ing about Royce and how he was the weak link to the entire team ( outside of Todd's 15 losses....nice trade for Todd, KW )

 

Royce was the weak link on the team and I am 110% happy that the Sox dumped his ass.

 

And also, I don't see where you get off talking s*** about me or anybody else on this board, noob. I may not agree with a lot of what CubKilla and others may say for the most part but I am most certainly not gonna let a little b**** like you come in and start talking s***.

 

Royce is gone! Long may he rot with the Brewers!

[clujer420]

K-Layton was a clubhouse cancer.  He and Johnson were the Trash Brothers (as coined by the SnR staff)  Royce was always nearly a guaranteed out whenever we needed him to get a clutch hit.  He was Royce the Rally Killer.

The guy couldn't bat his way out of a wet paper bag and he had the attitude that he was the best player in baseball history.  I can recount numerous games from last season listening to SnR and all of us Sox fan listeners b****ing about Royce and how he was the weak link to the entire team ( outside of Todd's 15 losses....nice trade for Todd, KW )

 

Royce was the weak link on the team and I am 110% happy that the Sox dumped his ass. 

 

And also, I don't see where you get off talking s*** about me or anybody else on this board, noob.  I may not agree with a lot of what CubKilla and others may say for the most part but I am most certainly not gonna let a little b**** like you come in and start talking s***. 

 

Royce is gone!  Long may he rot with the Brewers!

Profanity is a clear sign of a lack of intelligence. That's not talking s***, that's stating fact.

 

And call me a "little b****" all you want -- I'm a well-informed fan who knows what he's talking about. The longer I'm here, the longer I will prove that.

 

Back to the matter at hand...AGAIN, I'm not saying he should have been MVP. He couldn't get a clutch hit, but he wasn't the only one. The Sox had chances to win many games last season, and simply choked. We were horrible in 1-run games, and the Twins were great -- that's what the difference in the division was.

 

.260 over the course of 2 years isn't a horrible average, buddy. Also, #9 hitters normally are sure outs -- that's how it is around baseball. Name me more than 2 or 3 #9 guys that strike fear into the opposition. There aren't many.

 

Hell, he set an all-time Sox record for fielding percentage -- that's impressive.

 

But that said, I too am glad he's gone.

[YASNY]

Poor Royce.  He's gotten so much flack for his performance while he was with the Sox, and it's really unfortunate IMO.  

 

His average in 2 years with the Sox was .260, with 16 HR and 90 RBI (in the #9 hole, keep in mind).  He had a fielding percentage of almost 99%, and saved many runs with plays that shortstops before him wouldn't have made (like Mike Caruso, ugh).  Sure, he struck out a bit much (135 in those 2 seasons), but he wasn't nearly as bad as some people make him sound.  Compare his K's (in 2001 and 2002 combined) to Magglio (147), Frank (127 in a little more than 1 season), Paulie (161), and Carlos (158).  Hell, Ray struck out almost that much every year.  Sure, Royce was no A-Rod or Jeter (or even Tejada or Nomar), but he did what he was brought in for -- to solidify us defensively up the middle.

 

The Sox did poorly in 2001 and 2002, but it wasn't because of Royce Clayton, as much as some of you would like to make him the scapegoat.

As for the opening line of your post, Clayton deserved every bit of the flack he got in here. In fact, he also got plenty of flack at the ballpark. So it wasn't just us, but the whole White Sox nation. He came in from Texas, had the position handed to him, even though we would just won the division with Jose at short. Valentin was the "field general" on defense. Clayton struggled for months, each season, to achieve the lofty status of the "Mendoza line". Regardless of what the rest of the team did, Royce Clayton was in a large way, responsible for the 2 disappointing seasons the Sox had. And I am referring to the attrocious starts he had, and the crap he caused in the clubhouse. Good riddance to him.

 

Now, having said that, I will agree with you on one point. He did provide good defense. However, that positive factor was greatly outweighed by the negativity he brought to team, and his pathetic lack of production till the team was buried even below "also ran" status.

[cwsox]

HSC, I did not love Clayton, I was just his fan.

 

CubKilla, he wasn't a rally killer - one reason that I keep score so seriously at games is to get a feel for who does what in various situatons. MJ was a real problem last year in that regards, why I went from liking MJ to being glad he is gone. Hell, as much as I absolutely love Mags, realize he is the player who you least want to see with a runner at first and 1 out - he won't be all that he can be until he stops hitting into the double plays

 

Everyone: I was in favor of getting rid of both Clayton and Valentin. When you sit in the stands and watch 36 errors by one player at one position and cringe whenever the routine play is hit his way... I am sick of the legend of St. Jose. He has given us some great moments but this heart and soul of the team is just bulls***. If he is that, he is that at whatever position he plays, not just when he plays shortstop. In his own way, he is just as disruptive as any problem in the clubhouse player we have ever had. I cheer for Jose in all his good moments and sing the Jose, Jose Jose, Jose song like everyone else - but one's fan-dom for a player should not blind to his faults.

 

For everyone who said f*** Clayton - isn't that what Frank's various ex's said?

 

I am glad he is gone, He was bashed unfairly yet his time with us was up and reached the point of being totally counter productive. After we watch Jose butcher a bunch of routine plays - he makes the tough ones, he is spectacular on those, and boots the routine ones or more likely throws them away - after we see 36 more errors at short we will remember why we shopped for a shortstop at the end of 2000 - in my perfect world, Harris would play 2nd and Jimenez play short and I think that is the way we need to go to win.

 

I doubt Valentin will be with us after this season. I canot see the Sox re-signing him for what his conbtract range will be. I'd trade him now if anyone will trade for him for whatever good player we can get.

[YASNY]

I agree that Jose won't be with us next year. Jiminez will be our 2004 shortstop, but Hummell might take that 2B job before Harris ever claims it.

[cwsox]

I agree that Jose won't be with us next year.  Jiminez will be our 2004 shortstop, but Hummell might take that 2B job before Harris ever claims it.

I'd have no problem with that!

[WhiteSoxPride3035]

Royce Clayton was definetley not a good player while up at the plate. Although, while on the feild, he was one of the best defensive shortstops the White Sox ever had. If he had gotten better at the plate in the few years he was with the White Sox, I believe we would have kept him.

[cwsox]

check out who was a team leader in batting in September 2001 and compare his average for 2002 with the rest of the team including Valentin - his hitting was ok enough. We got rid of him because it just didn't work for whatever reasons and I am glad he is gone even though I was his fan - one of the rare few - whatever was going on with him and Frank's ex's and whatever else he needed t go but his batting was ok enough - many players on the 2002 Sox should have had as high a batting average as his.

[Soxfest]

R.Clayton Sucked , KW one of many of his dumbass moves.