Jim Fainter Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 There is one thing about Clayton that I will probably NEVER understand, and I believe I mentined it in an earlier post on some other subject. It reflects on the Sox front office more than on Clayton himself. That is, why would we ever trade for him at such an inflated salary ($5 Mil per yr for 2 yrs)? All we were accomplishing was a big time accomodation of the the Rangers, who had just signed A-Rod and no longer needed Clayton. No one else was willing to absorb his contract. They had no negotiating leverage, but KW does them a big favor. I just don't get it. In effect, we reduced A-Rod's cost to the Rangers from $25 Million/year to $20 million/year for the first two years. I also believe that where is smoke, there is fire. Clayton's activities with a teammate's women are well chronicled, as is his wearing street shoes on the bench. No excuse for either. I would bet just about anything that there were other instances of poor judgement and behavior, but we just never heard about them. The pattern is there. Plus, I have seen him interviewed on TV, and he came across as having a chip on his shoulder. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 There is one thing about Clayton that I will probably NEVER understand, and I believe I mentined it in an earlier post on some other subject. It reflects on the Sox front office more than on Clayton himself. That is, why would we ever trade for him at such an inflated salary ($5 Mil per yr for 2 yrs)? All we were accomplishing was a big time accomodation of the the Rangers, who had just signed A-Rod and no longer needed Clayton. No one else was willing to absorb his contract. They had no negotiating leverage, but KW does them a big favor. I just don't get it. In effect, we reduced A-Rod's cost to the Rangers from $25 Million/year to $20 million/year for the first two years. I also believe that where is smoke, there is fire. Clayton's activities with a teammate's women are well chronicled, as is his wearing street shoes on the bench. No excuse for either. I would bet just about anything that there were other instances of poor judgement and behavior, but we just never heard about them. The pattern is there. Plus, I have seen him interviewed on TV, and he came across as having a chip on his shoulder. Just my opinion. I think the Sox felt they had to act, Jose had made all those errors and then there was the flirtation wih ARod I think they felt they had to get a shortstop after all of that in the media. Whetehr they needed to or not was debatable. And as you say, we got what Texas didn't need but at least he came cheap enough trade wise - wasn't it $4 or $4.5 the first year, that was a lot of salary to take on but it seemed it was an act of desparation, they felt that they had to get a new shortstop and after ARod went out of the market they got the first available one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 doesnt the fact tht k-layton under 200 going into june both years he was here thus helping bury us with dismal records in may and the fact that he was running around screwing franks woman bother any of his supporters??? richie sexson and geoff jenkins better lock up thier wives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Why would any woman sleep with that? He looks as oily as he acts. I sure as hell know I wouldn't even give him a second look. hell, I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft Pole or a 5 foot Mic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Wasn't there an incident right after 9/11 where he sat on the bench or something while they payed respect for the dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 i love it when we start a clayton debte you do?? uh huh! ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Wasn't there an incident right after 9/11 where he sat on the bench or something while they payed respect for the dead? I honestly do not recall that at all and that is something I would remember. I think that is just piling on. But as well, Royce Clayton is also responsible for cancer, AIDS, drought in the Sahara, the Lindberg kidnapping, the War of 1812 and the Crimean War, as well as the Barbary Coast pirates and the Rape of the Lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 I'm surprised no one else has caught clujer's error. Royce didn't average 16 homers and 90 RBIs both years he was here...that's what he had combined, if that even....because I know for damn sure he hit about 7 homers this year(6 in April if I remember correctly) and had about 40 RBIs....something tells me he didn't hit about 25 homers in 2001 while driving in about 135....hitting under .100 for the first two months of the year and hitting from the #9 spot in the order would make it hard to drive in 40 runs, let alone 135. If he had averaged a .260 16 90 season the past two years, something tells me he would have gotten more than $1 mill from Milwaukee in offers this year. Also, I forgot to mention....if you think Jose is a worse defensive SS than K-layton, look at the stats yourself. All you have to do is look at either assists or put-outs(I'm assuming assists) and you can also look at how they turned DP's.....do NOT look at errors and fielding percentage. I'm sure people would take just Garciaparra's defense over Mike Bordick....one has range, one doesn't....one makes a lot of errors, one doesn't. With Bordick setting the consecutive errorless game streak, I don't think I have to tell you who is who. In this example, Garciaparra would be Valentin and Bordick would be Clayton....meaning that Valentin is a better defensive SS than Clayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Nice catch WiteSoxFan. When I looked at the post, I didn't see the mistake, but the numbers to me looked incorrect. Thanks for correcting the mistake. I should've looked at the stats like you did and solved the case myself. You have taught me a very valuable lesson in doing so.... don't do the work, let someone else do it for you! Thanks for the correction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 besides guys..the biggest white sox scapegoat will always be the Dibber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Wasn't there an incident right after 9/11 where he sat on the bench or something while they payed respect for the dead? I honestly do not recall that at all and that is something I would remember. I think that is just piling on. But as well, Royce Clayton is also responsible for cancer, AIDS, drought in the Sahara, the Lindberg kidnapping, the War of 1812 and the Crimean War, as well as the Barbary Coast pirates and the Rape of the Lock. would this be the im not wearing my spikes in the dugout but put on my nikes instead incident????? i remember it well........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 I'm surprised no one else has caught clujer's error. Royce didn't average 16 homers and 90 RBIs both years he was here...that's what he had combined, if that even I worded it weird, but if you read it carefully, what I said made sense. The .260 was his yearly average in the 2 years, along with 16 HR and 95 RBI (obviously combined). And those were his stats, not "if that even". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I understood it clearly. Personally, I never had a problem with Royce Clayton, Because his defense was great. However, I never did hear anything about his clubhouse antics, because they don't write about or talk about that in Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 would this be the im not wearing my spikes in the dugout but put on my nikes instead incident????? i remember it well........lol The sneakers incident was what, in August or September 2002? It had nothing to do with disrespect for the victims of September 11th, as you know. I recall the explanation as being he was toild he wasn;t going to play that day. I don't agree with what he did - how many times do I have to say I am glad he is gone - but it is unfair to accuse him of things that never happened and disrespect for the victims of 2001 never happened. Disrespect for his teammates is a whole other issue - South Dakota Boy, good catch on the stats. Without looking it up, I am sure he hit 9 in 2001 and if you say he hit 7 in 2002 that sounds very right. One month stats should never be used to judge a player or PK would be sent to the minors every year on June 1st after traditional dismal Mays. Clayton hit well enough - many of his team mates should have had his average in 2002 especially (including St. Jose). It is a 9 player team so when one is down, there are 8 other players who have to pick up. The horrid start in 2001 was due to many, many things, not Royce's fault, and his slow start in 2002 didn't hamper the team from having a good start through May 30th. I am tired of Clayton arguments. He is history, he is gone. He got dumped on by fans and the media very unfairly. And the worst thing about that is as someone goes on and on and on about the Blame Clayton thing, they are blind blind blind to the real problems that we had these past two years. What excites me right now by the way is an MTV focus on 50 Cent - I really like his stuff, great rap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Bulls***. The" sneaker" incedent was just an example of Royce's additude. He's just a self centered scumbag who's not a team player and will f*** up an entire clubhouse when benched. When in doubt, blame royce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingrt13 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Don't pour s*** on Royce, he was AMAZING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Don't pour s*** on Royce, he was AMAZING! Why? because he had the "sanburg swat" when he came near a ball he might make an error on? Or his joke of an arm, or terrible baserunning skills, and let's not forget the great team leader that f***s his team mates ex wife as soon as he gets into town. f*** ROYCE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Bulls***. The" sneaker" incedent was just an example of Royce's additude. He's just a self centered scumbag who's not a team player and will f*** up an entire clubhouse when benched. When in doubt, blame royce! I praised you in another thread and now I take it back. What is bulls***? Didn't I clearly say that disrespect for his team mates was a very live issue? That was my way of saying in English words that he did show disrespect for his team mates and that was a sure sign of it. Damn, does one have to explain everything with picture books for you? No wonder there are so many icons on this board! And when in doubt blame Royce avoids all kind of looking at our real and other problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Don't pour s*** on Royce, he was AMAZING! Sheeeeee-it, I have hanging on my wall a very expensive framing job containing Royce's autograph and pictures of him to remember the night and the game where I met him and I was Royce's biggest fan, ask anyone who sat near me and I wouldn't say what you said -- but wait until he leads Milwaukee past the Cubs a bunch of times - then everyone will love him - he will be beating the Cubs and not in a WS uniform! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Don't pour s*** on Royce, he was AMAZING! Why? because he had the "sanburg swat" when he came near a ball he might make an error on? Or his joke of an arm, or terrible baserunning skills, and let's not forget the great team leader that f***s his team mates ex wife as soon as he gets into town. f*** ROYCE! ::stands up and claps:: I couldn't have said it better myself RPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Bulls***. The" sneaker" incedent was just an example of Royce's additude. He's just a self centered scumbag who's not a team player and will f*** up an entire clubhouse when benched. When in doubt, blame royce! I praised you in another thread and now I take it back. What is bulls***? Didn't I clearly say that disrespect for his team mates was a very live issue? That was my way of saying in English words that he did show disrespect for his team mates and that was a sure sign of it. Damn, does one have to explain everything with picture books for you? No wonder there are so many icons on this board! And when in doubt blame Royce avoids all kind of looking at our real and other problems. I read it too fast. i had to reply and let off steam because i knew you'd be defending royce as if you were his lawyer. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 you are on my list of people who I am going to sit next to at the cell when Royce Ring hits the bigs so I can hear you shout out, Lets Go Royce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 you are on my list of people who I am going to sit next to at the cell when Royce Ring hits the bigs so I can hear you shout out, Lets Go Royce! I'll call him "the ring master". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 You are simply wrong. Royce deserves all the bashing he gets. He completely sucked the first half of his first season in Chicago and ruined our team basically. We screwed with Valentin all for this stiff named Royce Clayton. He was an awful, awful, awful offensive player and was an ass in the clubhouse. I hope he hits .400 this year. I will still say I'm glad he's gone. The guy was a frickin stiff!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I hope he hits .400 this year. I will still say I'm glad he's gone. The rest of what you posted came through on my screen as "message garbled" so must be a computer glitch - the one statement that came through, I do agree with - I am glad he is gone too and have tried to make that clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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