We are so Fu**in' Lethargic!!

[maggsmaggs]

1) Trade Paulie, Borchard and Diaz for Freddy Garcia (our rotation is complete)

 

2) Trade Rowand, Wunsch, Politte and some prospects for Sean Casey and Graves (later in the year, right now I go with Gload who is in the Doug Mienkiewski type mold

 

3) Bring up Jeremy Reed for Rowand

 

4) Finally, Kill the Twins the weekend!!!

 

Any thoughts?

[WSoxShuf]

1) Trade Paulie, Borchard and Diaz for Freddy Garcia (our rotation is complete)

 

2) Trade Rowand, Wunsch, Politte and some prospects for Sean Casey and Graves (later in the year, right now I go with Gload who is in the Doug Mienkiewski type mold

 

3) Bring up Jeremy Reed for Rowand

 

4)  Finally, Kill the Twins the weekend!!!

 

Any thoughts?

I really like those ideas.

 

too good to be true.

[danman31]

Konerko, Borchard, and Diaz for Garcia? No thanks. Too steep for a rental.

[CSF]

4) Finally, Kill the Twins the weekend!!!

 

That's illegal in 46 states.

[maggsmaggs]

We would have a good shot at re-signig him because of his Ozzie connections. Borchard sucks, we need a better 5th starter.

[The Beast]

Screw Casey, he sucks in past years.

[Mr. Showtime]

You don't trade Borchard for Garcia. I'd trade him if a real big deal came along.

[qwerty]

You don't trade Borchard for Garcia. I'd trade him if a real big deal came along.

what is so good about borchard i will never know

[cwsox]

obviosuly we need to fire Manuel and brinbg in someone energetic - hey, I know, Cito Gaston!

[DonkeyKongerko]

I don't think Tony Robbins could fire this team up.

[Rowand44]

obviosuly we need to fire Manuel and brinbg in someone energetic - hey, I know, Cito Gaston!

Like I said before after watching this team pull this crap again this year, I blamed way to much on Jerry Manuel last year, it was his players not him. Cwsox you always said jerry was a good manager and I bashed you for that, I still don't think he was a good manager, but he definitely wasn't as bad as I thought. Cwsox

[GoodAsGould]

basicly we get rid of cancer aka Paul Konerko and Aaron Rowand... put willie harris in the CF spot find a good contact hitting 1B and i think we would have a pretty solid team with people that can get on base for the long ball method to be effective.

[Mr. Showtime]

what is so good about borchard i will never know

I'm not against trading him, just not for someone like Garica.

 

If we're talking a package to get a Mulder or someone like that who will be with the team longer than half a season, then ok.

[cwsox]

Like I said before after watching this team pull this crap again this year, I blamed way to much on Jerry Manuel last year, it was his players not him.  Cwsox you always said jerry was a good manager and I bashed you for that, I still don't think he was a good manager, but he definitely wasn't as bad as I thought.  Cwsox

thanks - you're cool!

 

yeah I was a JM backer (not unqualified, I criticised plenty) especially vis a vis a lot of really unfair criticism (in my opinion) and bashing that took place.

 

Yet, it was time for JM to go, I think - without respect to his abilities, sometimes a change needs to be made. Unless you are Connie Mack or Tommy Lasorda, all managers get fired. It was time to make a change.

 

A side benefit is that we do see that there were problems endemic that were not JM's fault. I was not fond of Ozzie's hiring. I desparately want to be proven wrong there. Folks got too high in April. Thus the reality sets in painfully.

 

Those of us of a certain life experience (i.e., we are old, ancient, should be shot because we take up space and breath air that young'ns could breath and we use some bandwidth best utilized by a 14 year old) remember a song, 'That's Life' as sung by Frank Sinatra:

 

 

That's life, that's what all the people say.

You're riding high in April,

Shot down in May

But I know I'm gonna change that tune,

When I'm back on top, back on top in June.

 

I said that's life, and as funny as it may seem

Some people get their kicks,

Stompin' on a dream

But I don't let it, let it get me down,

'Cause this fine ol' world it keeps spinning around

 

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,

A poet, a pawn and a king.

I've been up and down and over and out

And I know one thing:

Each time I find myself, flat on my face,

I pick myself up and get back in the race.

 

That's life

I tell ya, I can't deny it,

I thought of quitting baby,

But my heart just ain't gonna buy it.

And if I didn't think it was worth one single try,

I'd jump right on a big bird and then I'd fly

 

I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate,

A poet, a pawn and a king.

I've been up and down and over and out

And I know one thing:

Each time I find myself laying flat on my face,

I just pick myself up and get back in the race

 

That's life

That's life and I can't deny it

Many times I thought of cutting out

But my heart won't buy it

But if there's nothing shakin' come this here july

I'm gonna roll myself up in a big ball and die

[Mr. Showtime]

A side benefit is that we do see that there were problems endemic that were not JM's fault.  I was not fond of Ozzie's hiring.  I desparately want to be proven wrong there.  Folks got too high in April.  Thus the reality sets in painfully.

I don't think the team has hit a tough patch because of Ozzie. Just the players on the field aren't the type he needs to play his way.

[cwsox]

I don't think the team has hit a tough patch because of Ozzie. Just the players on the field aren't the type he needs to play his way.

interesting concept and I shall be consider it and be open to it, thanks - may be a shift in the old opinion here, and I always appreciate someone who shows me a new way to see things

[Mr. Showtime]

interesting concept and I shall be consider it and be open to it, thanks - may be  a shift in the old opinion here, and I always appreciate someone who shows me a new way to see things  

I think Ozzie has a been a tad iffy on the pitchers, but I haven't been against many moves he's made.

 

When Manuel got the job he wanted the same type of team Ozzie does, yet we saddled him with this softball team.

[Chisoxfn]

Well the 1st trade is definately something that could go down, although you could argue it is a steep price. However, get Wynn involved in that deal and insert Rowand and now were talking something interesting.

 

The 2nd trade is an absolute pipe dream though (unfortunately). The Sox give up maybe a million in contracts and get about 12-16 mill in return (too lazy to look up the exact figures, but both Graves and Casey make a lot). Mix that with the fact the Sox are already at budget.

 

Still, I like Wynn and I like Garcia. Picking those two up would solve a few problems. Plus someone like Jose could be made available as well. And a top of the order with Willie and Randy would be nice. Then again, the Sox would still lack left handed power down in the order.

 

But with Konerko gone, you swing Gload over their and I think Gload produces at least at a reasonable level (.270, 15-20 HR, and 70 RBI).

[witesoxfan]

what is so good about borchard i will never know

If he ever shortens his swing, he could be a huge threat offensively with his LTP. The odds of JB making it are getting smaller by the day though.

[qwerty]

If he ever shortens his swing, he could be a huge threat offensively with his LTP.  The odds of JB making it are getting smaller by the day though.

people have been say if he ever shortens his swing he will produce well, which is true but it just seems like he will never make it to the big leagues, at least as a full time starter because i guess he is just to damn stubborn to shorten his swing which will just equal into hundreds of strikeouts at the major league level and that in not acceptable

[aboz56]

We aren't trading Borchard, we paid him 5.3 million and he has low value right now, so he's not going to be dealt for virtually nothing, which is what you'd get for him at this point.

[qwerty]

im saying when its all over with that was a big ol waste of 5.3 million dollars

[YASNY]

With all the natural talent Borchard has, I'd still wait before dumping him for a bag of stale peanuts.

 

Manuel was not a bad manager. Basically, cwsox and I have been in agreement on that issue all along. I think I was calling for a change somewhat earlier than cw was, but we both felt JM was shouldering an over abundance of the blame.

 

As far as Ozzie goes, I think he'll do a pretty good job. I like the fact that says what needs to be said and pulls no punches when doing it. He also doesn't just stick with the same thing even if it's not working. JM was bashed for "tinkering" yet at the same time he was bashed for sticking with Koch and Konerko too long. Ozzie is still trying to find the right combination of players and their slots in the batting order. He deserves to be able to "tinker" to a certain extent to get to know his players and what they are and are not capable of.

 

On this board, we've heard Harris should be in CF to keep Uribe in the line up. Also, Gload should play more in a platoon with PK. That Lee should be moved to number 2 and Valentin moved down. That Rowand should be moved to AAA, bench, number 2 or 4th outfielder. It looks like to me that Ozzie is trying some of these very options we have mentioned here. Of course, now we are starting to hear complaints about Ozzie "tinkering". Give the guy a chance to find out what he has to work with and also to communicate to KW what he thinks he needs to make the Sox a better team.

 

I know this much. The plan in place and the players we currently have are not going to beat the Twins in this division unless the Twins self destruct. It's way past time to break up this RH-RH-RH-RH-RH string of power hitters in the 3 through 7 slots in our line up, and to an extent greater than dropping Valentin to the number 6 hole.

[aboz56]

If we're going to talk about proposed changes, I'll go ahead and tell ya what should happen... (Note: I am not into hypothetical BS trades that will never happen so I will just use the goods we are provided.)

 

Move #1: Option Timo Perez to AAA Charlotte, hope someone claims him off of waivers. If not he is our CF in Charlotte.

 

Move #2: Purchase the contract of Jeremy Reed and place him on the Sox roster.

 

Move #3: Option Felix Diaz to AAA Charlotte, recall Kelly Wunsch.

 

The pitching roster would then look like this:

 

Starters: Buehrle, Garland, Loaiza, Schoenweis, Cotts

Bullpen: Politte, Adkins, Wunsch, Marte, Koch, Takatsu, Jackson

 

Offense (everyday lineup):

 

2B Harris/Uribe (play the hot hand, play Uribe at 3B as well)

CF Reed

RF Ordonez

DH Thomas

LF Lee

SS Valentin

1B Konerko

3B Crede

C Olivo

 

Bench: Alomar, Rowand, Gload

[Chisoxfn]

people have been say if he ever shortens his swing he will produce well, which is true but it just seems like he will never make it to the big leagues, at least as a full time starter because i guess he is just to damn stubborn to shorten his swing which will just equal into hundreds of strikeouts at the major league level and that in not acceptable

Personally I think its more if he can get healthy and stay healthy. He always seems to have nagging injuries that really effect his swing, specifically his batspeed. Right now its his back. I think once healthy, we'll see Joey B hit the heck out of the ball.

 

Today he had 2 HR's and 7 RBI's, but I want to see him perform on a consistent basis. It does seem like the few games he's felt good all year, he has produced though (that includes spring training).