The Beast Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Okay, what the heck just happened there? He stikes out the side, 1-2-3, against one of the hottest teams in the league...sounds like Cooper helped him through his problem of not having his GASS anymore. Seriously, why bother trading Koch now, I mean the guy has 7 saves currently and has brought his ERA and batters average down against him. His ERA is now down to 4.41, a respectable ERA, not that great, but for a pitcher who doesn't rack up a lot of innings to bring it down, I think it justifies itself for now. I am interested in hearing what you have to say on this, after all, he is our closer, fellas. -BeastlyOrdonez30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 they say ur closer should save 80% of his chances so if he does that he can have an era of 6 and that would be alright with me. well not quite 6 but u know what i mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Koch is a badass and has been CONSISTANTLY getting the job done, yet people on here still complain... oh well, as long as the man keeps K'ng fools and paying ppl to tattoo his name on their ass im happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 He's been a pleasant surprise so far, I'd like to see that ERA under 4.00 and some more easy saves...Nice work Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Hopefully this is a good boost of confidense for Koch. New Year, New Manager, new Mental Closer IMO.. Go Koch!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Koch is a badass and has been CONSISTANTLY getting the job done, yet people on here still complain... oh well, as long as the man keeps K'ng fools and paying ppl to tattoo his name on their ass im happy It all comes down to this. His confidence. A pitcher needs to have confidence in their command, but it is not all about speed. Remember, Koch can get people out with sliders and curves and changeups, come on now...yeah well we have to turn those negatives into believers, because I think the Billy Goat is back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 they say ur closer should save 80% of his chances so if he does that he can have an era of 6 and that would be alright with me. well not quite 6 but u know what i mean For a closer, I think an ERA of 6 or under is acceptable, anything above that is questioning it. This is why we are paying Koch good money. He is not why we didn't make it to the series last year, I blame it all on Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 He's been a pleasant surprise so far, I'd like to see that ERA under 4.00 and some more easy saves...Nice work Billy. No worries, he's baaaccckk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I honestly could care less what billy's era, if he keeps getting saves he's doing his job. Billy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I could not see the game since there was no broadcast in the area. I see Billy got 3 k's so please tell me how his velocity and pitch location was tonight. What type of pitches was he throwing? The heat, curves, sliders, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I could not see the game since there was no broadcast in the area. I see Billy got 3 k's so please tell me how his velocity and pitch location was tonight. What type of pitches was he throwing? The heat, curves, sliders, etc? He only went to 3 balls with one batter, his velocity looked pretty solid and his command was excellent, although a few pitches when he was ahead in the count were way out of the strike zone. A step in the right direction... Coop joked on the Sox post that it was Billy's first 1-2-3 inning of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Remember guys, he used to do it the hard way even in O town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 For a closer, I think an ERA of 6 or under is acceptable, anything above that is questioning it. This is why we are paying Koch good money. He is not why we didn't make it to the series last year, I blame it all on Konerko. No. An ERA of 6 is NOT acceptable for a closer. A closer is someone who is supposed to come in the 8th or 9th inning and slam the door & protect narrow leads. You are not getting that done with a balloon ERA like that. I dont know about you but I dont want a "closer" who you have to hold your breath every time he comes in cause theres a chance he might blow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I dont know about you but I dont want a "closer" who you have to hold your breath every time he comes in cause theres a chance he might blow it. It's less than ideal, but it's the rule more than the exception with closers all around this year. They can't all be Rivera. And after all, that's' why Rolaids sponsors the award, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 It's less than ideal, but it's the rule more than the exception with closers all around this year. They can't all be Rivera. And after all, that's' why Rolaids sponsors the award, right? You got me there. LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Dodgers Yankees Red Sox Philly Angles Those are the only teams IMO that have a closer you dont have to hold your breath about. Every other team can be up in the air at times. Which is why the other teams dont have a legitimate closer. Including us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Dodgers Yankees Red Sox Philly Angles Those are the only teams IMO that have a closer you dont have to hold your breath about. Every other team can be up in the air at times. And notice a trend there? All teams with payrolls WAAAAAAAAAAAAY above ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 And notice a trend there? All teams with payrolls WAAAAAAAAAAAAY above ours. And 2K, this hasn't been added either...Keith Foulke could implode at anytime (See various times in the past with the White Sox.) He is far from a sure thing. Right now the only sure thing closers I see are Gagne and Rivera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Take away Koch's 4 run outing against KC and his ERA is below 3. I'd like for the walks to come down but the Opp BA is .222 and averages 10k per 9IP are good. Most of all his 1-2-3 performance tonight is big. Now he knows how easy it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Dodgers Yankees Red Sox Philly Angels Those are the only teams IMO that have a closer you don't have to hold your breath about. Every other team can be up in the air at times. 30 teams in MLB, right? So if the above is true, only 5 of 30 teams have "legitimate closers" (as described elsewhere) so perhaps the 25 other teams cannot find a "legitimate closer" among the plethora of available just-waiting-for-a-job legitimate closers out there... or... we have it about as good as it gets unless one is one of the lucky 5. I think the quote above makes an excellent point. There is no such thing as an automatic closer. And other than Gagne's once in history season - when he failed to break Thiggy's record - no one is automatic. I think our closers are ok. Not great but ok. If closing were a science, not an art, all games would be over by the 6th inning. I get as nervous as anyone when the Count of 3 and 2 is on the mound. I also think that the solutions are not as "go the store and buy one" as people think. Closers are always head cases. Thigpen lost it all almost overnight. Closers have ups and downs and meltdowns and as FlaSoxxJim pointed out somewhere today, there is a reason Rolaids sponsers the closers award. It was time for Foulke to go. He had just melted down too many times in mig games for us. He and we needed a change of scenery. I did not see tonight's game but it sounds as if Koch is regaining form. And that is good. Very good. Last year I worried whether a game was KochProof™. (I always held that it was a 10 run lead...) This year right now we can have some confidence in him and I'd rather cheer for him than see him keep being knocked, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 And 2K, this hasn't been added either...Keith Foulke could implode at anytime (See various times in the past with the White Sox.) He is far from a sure thing. Right now the only sure thing closers I see are Gagne and Rivera. I've thought at length about this very thing -- In 2002 Foulke had a bad month. (8.10ERA for the month of May) and really only one TERRIBLE outing. He had 2 losses and 1 blown save that month (He only blew 3 saves on the year) -- There was a 1 month span during his time here where his Changeup was terrrible, and his FB was not stellar (a dead arm period), and he gave up some 5HR's during a stretch of 12 outings because hitters were able to sit on one pitch or the other -- He came back from that and threw lights out the rest of the season, but at that point, after 3 Blown Saves, we had given up on him -- This is my main indictment of JM/KW/Whitesox fans -- Everyone is going to have some blown saves and some struggles -- The Yanks lost a WS because Rivera couldn't close out a game 7. -- I think that Sox fans in general have to lofty of expectations out of all of thier players, the result is we are searching for a scapegoat. In May of 2002 it was Foulke. He lost his closers job, even though he was still the best pitcher out of the pen in the second half. But KW/JR/JM & us had called for his head -- I wasn't one of those (though I'm probably biased as Foulke was definitly my favorite pitcher) He was practically run out of town, and we porclaimed Koch as our new savior. We overlooked his high WHIP or his ERA higher than Foulke even though we had just ran foulke out of town. My point is through all this rambling, (This isn't directed at you, but at everyone as a whole) We are too quick to give up on players... We are too quick to annoint the next coming of Cy Young and the Babe. I think White Sox fans in general have too lofty of expectations. Especially for our closers. Mariano Rivera blew 7 saves in 2001 as did Kaz Sasaki -- Niether were run out of town. They were back to blow 4 and 8 saves respectively, (rivera missed part of the season due to injury)-- I'd be very interested to hear the reaction around here if we had a guy do that -- For the record, Marte Blew 7 games last season, and leads the majors in Blown Saves this season, yet he's not Enemy #1 -- We are a fickle group who chose to throw our support wildly at some and just as wildly throw out wrath at others... I, for one, have been very conscience of my critisism of Koch. I didn't want him on "my team", but I'm stuck with him, so I'm going to support him while he's here. Good Job tonight BK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 No. An ERA of 6 is NOT acceptable for a closer. It's ridiculous that you even had to spell that out for people. -ERA has to be under 4.00 (which is equivalent to 4.50 for starters) -Peripherals like OPS-against, WHIP, etc have to be decent. -Inherited Runners Factor has to be above the league average -Win-Loss record and Save Conversion Rate have to be above average Billy Goat is pitching better than he did last year. BUT considering how lucky he's been in some of the saves (pitched out of bases loaded with 1 out against TB, was lucky Tejeda's shot was right at Uribe in Baltimore, etc), he still has ways to go. With a sharp velocity drop and a lousy control, he cannot afford to be a four-seamer/slider pitcher anymore. Now he needs a sinker or a cutter and that curve of his to be effective as out-pitch. Easier said than done. He gets a C- but I am glad it's not all lost for him. Getting Koch on track would be absolutely HUGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I think White Sox fans in general have too lofty of expectations. Yeah, an 86-year drought would do that to you.... :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 oh well, as long as the man keeps K'ng fools and paying ppl to tattoo his name on their ass im happy You mean he's paying people for that now... I wish I would of known that before I got it done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Take away Koch's 4 run outing against KC and his ERA is below 3. That's the thing, you can't take that game out. It's one of those things that you look at realize that Koch can implode now and then and get absolutely bombed. Just like how Thomas can now and then just get into a funk and strike out 10 times in 4 games, or how Konerko can go 2-for-27, etc. You take those out and his stats are significantly different. Koch has been solid. He's still making $6+ mill though. If I pay my closer $6 mill, I want 95% of all save opportunities converted, an ERA under 2.50, a WHIP of right around 1.00, an OBPA of less then .300, around double digit K/9, and a K/BB of around 4 or 5. Given, most closers cannot reach those. Then again, most closers aren't making $6 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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