Angels interested in Jose Valentin?

[cwsox]

1. He is the best Sox shortstop since Aparicio, Guillen included. 

 

2.  But cw will never come around.

1. Wrong

 

2. Right

 

 

[cwsox]

LOL.  All I can say aboiut Ozzie is that he is the best of the rest.  Ron Hansen, Woody Held, Bee Bee Richard, Scott Fletcher, Mike Caruso, Royce Calyton, etc....

Ron Hansen should not be in that list.

 

Luis Alvarado should be.

 

Clayton makes it because he was detested so much, not because he was a bad shortstop.

 

And before I am getting falsely accused, I am not ranking Clayton over Aparicio.

 

I am not even ranking Jose and Royce vis a vis each other because there are already 4,098,902,877 threads that already do that.

 

 

[BrandoFan]

Ron Hansen should not be in that list.

 

Oh yeah?

 

Much inferior overall hitter

Much inferior clutch hitter

Much inferior base-runner

No better defensively.

 

His all-star year was as an Oriole. Nice try.

 

Come to think of it....Manos might just end up being the second best Sox SS of all time in a few years.

[knightni]

Gee did you forget Scott Fletcher?

[Wong & Owens]

How you people left out Jerry Dybzinski or Liu Rodriguez is beyond me..

[whitesox61382]

An interesting trade might be Valentin, Wunsch, and a decent pitching prospect(Grilli) for Shields and Amezaga. I think this is a realistic and reasonable trade for both teams. There was a Wunsch for Amezaga trade rumor floating around before Wunsch got hurt, and there was a recent rumor of Valentin for Sele, so tossing in Grilli(or another decent pitching prospect) and asking for Shields instead seems pretty fair. I think Valentin has more value than Sele IMO(and I am not a Valentin fan). Both teams trade from areas of strength to improve weaknesses.

 

Why Anaheim does this trade?

 

With Glaus out indefinately(along with a couple of other key injuries) the Angels are look for a replacement at 3B. Valentin would be a realistic option. He will provide them with some pop, decent D, and some leadership. He is a FA after this season, so Anaheim can put their top 3B prospect McPherson their next season. The Angels bullpen doesn't have a lefty, although they have a couple of righties that pitch well against lefties. So Wunsch will provide the Angels with a lefty specialist. Grilli(or another decent pitching prospect) will provide them with a decent young arm. I am not a huge fan of Grilli, but he has a decent shot of being a quality middle reliever. Losing Shields would hurt a little, but the Angels are very deep with right handed relievers. At this point Amezaga doesn't project to be anything more than a utility infielder, and with Kennedy and Eckstein up the middle, the Angels don't have much use for him.

 

Why the Sox do this trade?

 

Shields is one of the best kept secrets in the AL, and because of this the Angels might be reluctant to part with him. His overall numbers are very impressive. He has a career ERA of 2.69, career BA against of .227, career OPS against of .624, career WHIP of 1.20, and a solid career 2.3 SO:BB ratio. He has a good arm, is still relatively young at 28, is very cheap at 375K, won't be a FA, and can start or pitch in long relief. I would love to see Shields in a Sox uniform as the 5th starter, with Cotts moving back to the pen to give the Sox 2 lefties(although he deserves a shot to start). The Sox have been after Amezaga before. I have not been that impressed with him and I don't think he hits enough to be a starter, but he will give the Sox a decent utility infielder and replacement for Valentin. He is very good defensively and has good speed(once stole 73 bases in the minors). Losing Valentin and relying on 3 unprove 26 or young middle infielders is a bit risky, but I think it is worth the risk and could pay off in the long run. Losing Wunsch isn't a big lose with Marte and Cotts in the pen and Shields in the rotation. I also don't think Grilli will be anything more than a middle reliever at best.

[BrandoFan]

An interesting trade might be Valentin, Wunsch, and a decent pitching prospect(Grilli) for Shields and Amezaga. I think this is a realistic and reasonable trade for both teams. There was a Wunsch for Amezaga trade rumor floating around before Wunsch got hurt, and there was a recent rumor of Valentin for Sele, so tossing in Grilli(or another decent pitching prospect) and asking for Shields instead seems pretty fair. I think Valentin has more value than Sele IMO(and I am not a Valentin fan). Both teams trade from areas of strength to improve weaknesses.

 

Why Anaheim does this trade?

 

With Glaus out indefinately(along with a couple of other key injuries) the Angels are look for a replacement at 3B. Valentin would be a realistic option. He will provide them with some pop, decent D, and some leadership. He is a FA after this season, so Anaheim can put their top 3B prospect McPherson their next season. The Angels bullpen doesn't have a lefty, although they have a couple of righties that pitch well against lefties. So Wunsch will provide the Angels with a lefty specialist. Grilli(or another decent pitching prospect) will provide them with a decent young arm. I am not a huge fan of Grilli, but he has a decent shot of being a quality middle reliever. Losing Shields would hurt a little, but the Angels are very deep with right handed relievers. At this point Amezaga doesn't project to be anything more than a utility infielder, and with Kennedy and Eckstein up the middle, the Angels don't have much use for him.

 

Why the Sox do this trade?

 

Shields is one of the best kept secrets in the AL, and because of this the Angels might be reluctant to part with him. His overall numbers are very impressive. He has a career ERA of 2.69, career BA against of .227, career OPS against of .624, career WHIP of 1.20, and a solid career 2.3 SO:BB ratio. He has a good arm, is still relatively young at 28, is very cheap at 375K, won't be a FA, and can start or pitch in long relief. I would love to see Shields in a Sox uniform as the 5th starter, with Cotts moving back to the pen to give the Sox 2 lefties(although he deserves a shot to start). The Sox have been after Amezaga before. I have not been that impressed with him and I don't think he hits enough to be a starter, but he will give the Sox a decent utility infielder and replacement for Valentin. He is very good defensively and has good speed(once stole 73 bases in the minors). Losing Valentin and relying on 3 unprove 26 or young middle infielders is a bit risky, but I think it is worth the risk and could pay off in the long run. Losing Wunsch isn't a big lose with Marte and Cotts in the pen and Shields in the rotation. I also don't think Grilli will be anything more than a middle reliever at best.

Good trade for the Sox - not so much for the Angels.

 

I wish people would stop undervaluing Kelly Wunsht. When he is healthy, he is a good, cheap reliever that Sox underutilized last year.

[whitesox61382]

Good trade for the Sox - not so much for the Angels.

 

I wish people would stop undervaluing Kelly Wunsht.    When he is healthy, he is a good, cheap reliever that Sox underutilized last year.

I think it is a realitively fair trade for both sides. With Anderson and Erstad out(along with Glaus) the Angels need to add some proven offense before it is too late. They have been relatively lucky to get decent production out of role players and youngsters, but how much longer is that going to last? Right now they have Alfredo "I can't hit my weight" Amezaga playing 3rd. I am not a huge Valentin fan, but you don't think that Anaheim could use his 50+ extra base hits and 70+ RBI's at this point? As you pointed out, Wunsch is a very underrated pitcher, and is extremely effective against lefties. At this point the Angels don't have a lefty in the pen, and while a couple of their righties fare well against lefties, it would be nice for them to have a left handed specialist. Toss in a solid pitching prospect like a Grilli(or Rauch/Diaz), and I think you have a pretty fair trade. The Angels are trading from a strength, since they proven righties like K-Rod, Percival, Weber, Gregg, and Donnelly(when he comes off the DL) already in the pen. Amezaga is a throw in at this point. This kid can't hit at all, but he is solid defensively and has good speed, which is better than any other potential Sox utility infielder provide(if Valentin were traded). Giving up Shields would be tough, but I do think that this trade would improve the Angels as well as the Sox.

[BrandoFan]

I think it is a realitively fair trade for both sides. With Anderson and Erstad out(along with Glaus) the Angels need to add some proven offense before it is too late. They have been relatively lucky to get decent production out of role players and youngsters, but how much longer is that going to last? Right now they have Alfredo "I can't hit my weight" Amezaga playing 3rd. I am not a huge Valentin fan, but you don't think that Anaheim could use his 50+ extra base hits and 70+ RBI's at this point? As you pointed out, Wunsch is a very underrated pitcher, and is extremely effective against lefties. At this point the Angels don't have a lefty in the pen, and while a couple of their righties fare well against lefties, it would be nice for them to have a left handed specialist. Toss in a solid pitching prospect like a Grilli(or Rauch/Diaz), and I think you have a pretty fair trade. The Angels are trading from a strength, since they proven righties like K-Rod, Percival, Weber, Gregg, and Donnelly(when he comes off the DL)  already in the pen. Amezaga is a throw in at this point. This kid can't hit at all, but he is solid defensively and has good speed, which is better than any other potential Sox utility infielder provide(if Valentin were traded). Giving up Shields would be tough, but I do think that this trade would improve the Angels as well as the Sox.

Doesn't Scott Shields have the ability to start? With every single starter (soon to be joined by Sele) sucking, can Anaheim GIVE up it's cheapest and arguably best SP option? I am thinking after missing out on Schoenweiss (and he ain't as talented as Shields) starting potential, they'd be that much less inclined to give up Shields.

 

Without Anderson and Glaus they are in trouble. I don't think Valentin will put them over the top offensively - if he ever employed the all-field approach, he'd be an 875 OPS hitter who hits in the clutch, but let's face it, at 34, he ain't changing his approach. And then there's his 5 Mill salary......They've already committed near 110 Mill to payroll. Wouldn't they go after younger, cheaper Jack Wilson who's having a break-out season at the plate?

 

But who knows, this trade may be a wash afterall, depending on a few unforseeable variables.

 

Btw....Grilli is garbage while Diaz is the real (if raw) deal. I'd rather give up the former.

[cwsox]

How you people left out Jerry Dybzinski or Liu Rodriguez is beyond me..

the things one tries to forget...

[cwsox]

Gee did you forget Scott Fletcher?

on purpose

[cwsox]

Come to think of it....Manos might just end up being the second best Sox SS of all time in a few years. 

ranking Jose above Luke Appling and/or Luis Aparicio?

 

I suugest you amend that to 3rd best shortstop because 2nd best for Valentin is a crock of bulls*** no matter else you say or do - Luke and Luis are 1st and 2nd, always and forever.

[Spiff]

ranking Jose above Luke Appling and/or Luis Aparicio?

 

I suugest you amend that to 3rd best shortstop because 2nd best  for Valentin is a crock of bulls*** no matter else you say or do - Luke and Luis are 1st and 2nd, always and forever.

No, you are forgetting his wicked range. He can cover like the whole left side of the infield on his own, and throw it to first about 30% of the time, which is solid if not spectacular. Add to that his RAW LEFTY POWER and GRITTY, GUTTY GOODNESS and you have not only the best White Sox shortstop, but maybe the greatest of all-time.

[BrandoFan]

I suugest you amend that to 3rd best shortstop because 2nd best for Valentin is a crock of bulls*** no matter else you say or do - Luke and Luis are 1st and 2nd, always and forever.

 

As of right now, Lukuis Aparippling is clearly #1

 

Jose would have to play til he is 40 and bring a couple of World Series rings to the South Side in the process to challenge him. Highly doubtful. Hence the #2.

 

[whitesox61382]

Doesn't Scott Shields have the ability to start? With every single starter (soon to be joined by Sele) sucking, can Anaheim up it's cheapest and arguably best SO option?    I am thinking after missing out on Schoenweiss (and he ain't as talented as Shields) starting potential, they'd be that much less inclined to give up Shields. 

 

Without Anderson and Glaus they are in trouble. I don't think Valentin will put them over the top offensively - if he ever employed the all-field approach, he'd be an 875 OPS hitter who hits in the clutch, but let's face it, at 34, he ain't changing his approach. And then there's his 5 Mill salary......They've already committed near 110 Mill to payroll. Wouldn't they go after younger, cheaper Jack Wilson who's having a break-out season at the plate?

 

But who knows, this trade may be a wash afterall, depending on a few unforseeable variables.   

 

Btw....Grilli is garbage while Diaz is the real (if raw) deal.  I'd rather give up the former.

Yes, Shields can be an effective starter and if the Sox got him I would imagine that they would put him in the rotation as the 5th starter with Cotts moving back to the pen to give the Sox 2 lefties in the pen. Yes, the Angel's rotation is struggling at this point, but I think that can be seen as a positive. Most of their starters are proven major leaguers who will probably get better as the season goes on. They also have a youngster named Kevin Gregg in the pen who has started a couple of games, and he could move to the rotation to replace a struggling/injuried starter. I do admit that the Angels would be reluctant to give up a good, young, cheap arm like Shields, but you have to give o receive, and the Angel's get a drastic improvement at 3rd, a solid lefty in the pen, and a decent pitching prospect who could contribute this year(Grilli/Rauch/Diaz). I think that is worth a solid right handed long reliever/spot starter and a struggling middle infielder.

 

I still think Valentin can put up a solid high .700-low .800 OPS. So far he has held his own batting lefty against lefties, and he can't get much worse than batting righted handed(posted sub .500 OPS's the last two years doing so). Besides, that is a significant improvement over the likely sub .600 OPS that Amezaga would produce. I don't think Valentin's 5M is a problem. The fact that the Angel's ownership have put so much money into this team, I think they are at a point of no return. Adding an additional 5M(more like 3.5-4M at this point) is a small price to pay to improve this team and only improve their chances of making the playoffs and more importantly, making a run in the playoffs. Jack Wilson has never played 3rd and he is off to a fluke start. Despite his great start, his career OPS is still only .650.

[BrandoFan]

Yes, Shields can be an effective starter and if the Sox got him I would imagine that they would put him in the rotation as the 5th starter with Cotts moving back to the pen to give the Sox 2 lefties in the pen. Yes, the Angel's rotation is struggling at this point, but I think that can be seen as a positive. Most of their starters are proven major leaguers who will probably get better as the season goes on. They also have a youngster named Kevin Gregg in the pen who has started a couple of games, and he could move to the rotation to replace a struggling/injuried starter. I do admit that the Angels would be reluctant to give up a good, young, cheap arm like Shields, but you have to give o receive, and the Angel's get a drastic improvement at 3rd, a solid lefty in the pen, and a decent pitching prospect who could contribute this year(Grilli/Rauch/Diaz). I think that is worth a solid right handed long reliever/spot starter and a struggling middle infielder.

 

I still think Valentin can put up a solid high .700-low .800 OPS. So far he has held his own batting lefty against lefties, and he can't get much worse than batting righted handed(posted sub .500 OPS's the last two years doing so). Besides, that is a significant improvement over the likely sub .600 OPS that Amezaga would produce. I don't think Valentin's 5M is a problem. The fact that the Angel's ownership have put so much money into this team, I think they are at a point of no return. Adding an additional 5M(more like 3.5-4M at this point) is a small price to pay to improve this team and only improve their chances of making the playoffs and more importantly, making a run in the playoffs. Jack Wilson has never played 3rd and he is off to a fluke start. Despite his great start, his career OPS is still only .650.

When in doubt....put yourself in Moreno's position.

 

How serious is Anderson's arthritis? Could they go after Magglio instead?

[knightni]

Gee did you forget Scott Fletcher?

 

 

on purpose

Yeah but he helped us get Sammy Sosa