JoshPR Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I know he sucks in the playoffs, but I thought he's been fairly solid in the regular season and as stated by Spiff, it's better than what we currently have in the 5th slot of the rotation. Would rather get Benson and try to re-sign him. Sele has been far from Solid the few last years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If you have a team with playoff aspirations, you're going to put Juan Uribe in as your starting SS? I'm no huge Valentin fan, but Uribe has been around for 6 weeks now and people are ready to annoint him the starting SS job on a supposed pennant contender? To that I say "whoa". As for this Beltran stuff, the only way the Sox would get Beltran is IF they think they can win the World Series in 2004. His agent is Boras. He is a free agent after this year. It is extremely unlikely ... no, make that practically impossible he would sign a long term deal here. And why would the Sox want to sign Beltran to a long term deal when they've got a couple of hot CF prospects rapidly climbing up the ladder? Trading Valentin and then trading prospects or whatever for Beltran is creating one hole to fix another. Uribe has a history of hot stretches and then huge funks. One reason why he's playing so well here is the Latin influence, I'd imagine Valentin is a part of that. If anyone gets traded, it will be one of the RH hitters. KW has been saying all along the team is too RH heavy, and with Konerko, Lee, Crede struggling it exposes things. I highly doubt he'd trade the one left handed threat who just happens to be the veteran anchor of the infield ... unless he can refill the SS hole AND add a starter. I don't see Valentin going anywhere until after this season, if then. The Sox can't keep a .350 hitter on the bench and keep their best 2B in CF. Crede, Uribe and Harris are the infield of the future and the present. No matter if Crede hits .200. He'll turn it around. Uribe's defense has always been "playoff ready". His offense has picked up. Will it stick around .300? Maybe not. But it should be better than what Jose has done in recent years. Anything more than .250 and he's fine. Beltran doesn't have to resign to make a trade worth it. He could almost singlehandedly turn our RH hitting, slow, power crew into an offensive power house capable of beating the best pitchers in the game. The key is what changes are possible with him on the team. With his addition [KC should find the best offers from the Sox, most teams can't fill the needs the Royals have of OF and pitching--the cost might be one top guy like Brian Anderson or a Ryan Wing [keep Sweeney, Reed and Honel], plus the price won't be as high as most people think. Also, keep in mind the two high draft picks the Sox would get for letting Beltran go as a FA. They'd offer him arbitration and he'd refuse it. Two high picks to replace the four guys needed to get Beltran would be at a total cost of 2 prospects, who may or may not ever make the bigs], the Sox would cut loose 2 guys of Jose, Lee and Konerko. With 2 of these guys gone, you make room for a Gload, a Reed or acquire another LH hitter by the deadline, such as a Randy Winn, or an Olerud. With a trade of the Sox proven vets, the Sox could probably get a top of the line pitcher. Or at least prospects that could be used to replace the ones needed to acquire a top pitcher at the deadline. The cost savings from losing 2 of these guys [hopefully PK's 2005 salary] also could go towards signing Maggs and a top of the rotation starter for next year. With Beltran, trading guys like Jose, Lee or PK isn't trading one problem for another. Its putting the best team on the field possible now. And helping the team build for the future [by giving them payroll flexibility, and not depleting the farm system too much [don't forget, the Sox have 6 picks in the first 70 in this years draft by getting 1 year rentals Colon and Gordon--KW can show this works and has big benefits to the owners]. Beltran solves a lot of problems this year. Imagine him in the #2 spot. Imagine the pitches Harris will get, Maggs and Frank. You think having the speed of Harris and Beltran for the Sox won't make Ozzie's mouth water?! Ozzie only has a 2 year contract. I think he'd go right with Kenny W and roll the dice on half a year with Beltran. BTW-Beltran is also a Latino from Puerto Rico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 You really think Beltran will be in a Sox uni don't you? If you are talking by the deadline that's crazy because KC will not trade him to a division rival. Not only that, the White Sox won't sign him wether Lee, PK, Koch, or Valentin leave or not, he wants arod money and his agent is Scott Boras, I highly doubt the sox want to pay him that much and deal with Boras. The only chances of Beltran being signed by the sox next season is if we go deep ino the playoffs and JR is willing to open that wallet. KC knows that Beltran probably won't be in a Sox uniform in 2005. They know the Sox can only afford Maggs or Beltran, not both. The Sox are the ones who don't want to have their draft picks come back and hurt them in the future. Getting Beltran won't cost that much, in terms of talent or salary. Esp. if our high priced RH hitters are traded to make room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I'd do that trade No kidding. You'd probably do Mike Sirotka for Jose Valentin right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 No kidding. You'd probably do Mike Sirotka for Jose Valentin right now. Only if they toss in Ken Hill and Todd Ritchie too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Only if they toss in Ken Hill and Todd Ritchie too. Here's to Jose being re-signed in the off-season. I know you and Dick will love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 As much as I dislike Sele. I just watched the guy 2 hit the Yanks for 6 innings. His velocity is back up (88 MPH) and he's actually healthy. He isn't giving up many hits, although he is walking people, and he wouldn't be all that bad. However, the Sox would be adding payroll in this move. I actually though Ben Weber could be a possibility. He's struggled for the angels this year and as much as I don't like the guy, he's been sick the previous two years out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 As much as I dislike Sele. I just watched the guy 2 hit the Yanks for 6 innings. His velocity is back up (88 MPH) and he's actually healthy. He isn't giving up many hits, although he is walking people, and he wouldn't be all that bad. However, the Sox would be adding payroll in this move. I actually though Ben Weber could be a possibility. He's struggled for the angels this year and as much as I don't like the guy, he's been sick the previous two years out of the pen. I can't believe there are two people you don't like! I know nothing about this Weber other than you don't like him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Most of the Angels I love. The other Angel I hate is David Eckstein. He is the biggest bum. I respect how he plays hard but he absolutely SUCKS. I boo him every at bat of every Angel game I go to and will continue to do so until he is benched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If we were to do this trade, we would need to get a hell of a lot more then Aaron Sele. They are the ones who need Jose Valentin...we do not need Aaron Sele. If they want Valentin so much, push and make them give more then they should. We have the leverage in this deal. Ask for K-Rod. They'll obviously say no, but you get the picture. I would rather see Valentin in the silver and black, but if we can get some damn good players in return, by all means, do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Well I'd ask for Amazega as well. That way the Sox have a platoon infielder who can handle those duties, imo, and also has the potential to be a little something more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If we were to do this trade, we would need to get a hell of a lot more then Aaron Sele. They are the ones who need Jose Valentin...we do not need Aaron Sele. If they want Valentin so much, push and make them give more then they should. We have the leverage in this deal. Ask for K-Rod. They'll obviously say no, but you get the picture. I would rather see Valentin in the silver and black, but if we can get some damn good players in return, by all means, do it. good analysis, thanks to you and Jas for your perspectives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If they want Valentin so much, push and make them give more then they should. We have the leverage in this deal. Ask for K-Rod. They'll obviously say no, but you get the picture The problem is that Valentin his very little value. You're not gonna get H-Rod, let alone K-Rod. Another slow defensive start (although weighted ZR still places him in the middle of the pack despite all the errors, which is not suprising to me) pretty much assures you won't get anything decent. He's gonna be a Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 The problem is that Valentin his very little value. You're not gonna get H-Rod, let alone K-Rod. Another slow defensive start (although weighted ZR still places him in the middle of the pack) pretty much assures you won't get anything decent. He's gonna be a Sox. Which is exactly why the deal isn't made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Which is exactly why the deal isn't made. I thought it was funny when Mac, Harry and Yurko dopes calling in and offering these trade gems: Koch, Valentin for Hawkins Koch, Valentin, Rowand for Freddy Garcia Lee, Valentin for Vidro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 And by the way, let's see how Cotts does with starting before we make any trades for another pitcher, don't jump the gun KW. BTW, we'd be a lot better around here if we had the guy on the right making decisions for this team... Are you a season ticket holder? Where'd u spot him at Soxfest, if that is Soxfest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 No thank you to anyone on that Anaheim rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Jose for Sele straight-up may happen if the Angels are willing to eat money... I'm intrigued by the Benson trade rumors Gammons mentioned (I think on BBTN) Good to see that KW is being aggressive, I believe that between late may and early June you can get the most value in trades because early in the season everyone feels there in it and near the trade deadline a serious bidding war starts. But if you can earmark a particular player around this time of year you can make quality trades. This is an old rumor (about 1 month ago) but Gammons thinks that the White Sox will be players if Griffey ever gets traded (I know Gammons is shaky at best, but I listen to ESPN radio a lot and his Andrew Jackson looking ass is on there a lot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Jose for Sele straight-up may happen if the Angels are willing to eat money... I'm intrigued by the Benson trade rumors Gammons mentioned (I think on BBTN) Good to see that KW is being aggressive, I believe that between late may and early June you can get the most value in trades because early in the season everyone feels there in it and near the trade deadline a serious bidding war starts. But if you can earmark a particular player around this time of year you can make quality trades. This is an old rumor (about 1 month ago) but Gammons thinks that the White Sox will be players if Griffey ever gets traded (I know Gammons is shaky at best, but I listen to ESPN radio a lot and his Andrew Jackson looking ass is on there a lot) JR was on the Score a couple weeks ago and mentioned that Griffey would never play for the White Sox. Thank God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I'd do that trade I can't believe that you would even do that. That would be a horrid trade for this team, absolutely disgustingly horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I can't believe that you would even do that. That would be a horrid trade for this team, absolutely disgustingly horrendous. Somehow I don't think CW appreciates Manos as much as me and you do. I doubt he even realizes that Manos might be the best Sox SS since Aparicio when it's all said and done. He'll come around, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Somehow I don't think CW appreciates Manos as much as me and you do. I doubt he even realizes that Manos might be the best Sox SS since Aparicio when it's all said and done. He'll come around, though. You're right. He is the best Sox shortstop since Aparicio, Guillen included. But cw will never come around. I can see Valentin hitting a walk off grand slam in the 9th inning of game seven of the World Series and cw would still call him StJosE6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 You're right. He is the best Sox shortstop since Aparicio, Guillen included. But cw will never come around. I can see Valentin hitting a walk off grand slam in the 9th inning of game seven of the World Series and cw would still call him StJosE6. Not right now, obviously....but if he pulls a Palmeiro and plays til 40, I could see it. He had too many injuries while with Milwakee, never played up to his potential.......but as a White Sox, Manos has been a solid player if anything else. Ozzie? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 LOL. All I can say aboiut Ozzie is that he is the best of the rest. Ron Hansen, Woody Held, Bee Bee Richard, Scott Fletcher, Mike Caruso, Royce Calyton, etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 LOL. All I can say aboiut Ozzie is that he is the best of the rest. Ron Hansen, Woody Held, Bee Bee Richard, Scott Fletcher, Mike Caruso, Royce Calyton, etc.... Al Bannister, hello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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