WHITE SOX rumor mill

[JUGGERNAUT]

I think it makes more sense to link all the rumor threads into one thread.

I'll try to provide links to the other threads in this one.

Feel free to do the same here.

 

The latest:

Beltran to the Sox:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_rozn...?intid=38126219

The White Sox haven't had a center fielder since before the turn of the century and they have the young and cheap arms necessary to make this deal happen.

The Sox also can let the Royals choose from outfielders Joe Borchard, Aaron Rowand, Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney, and they can afford the $3 million it'll cost to pay Beltran the final two months of the season.

 

The Padres, however, pose the greatest threat. They need Beltran. They have the position players to get a deal done. They have money to spend, even the $120 million it'll take to sign Beltran after the season.

 

But the Cubs' package, which would have to include Corey Patterson and probably Kyle Farnsworth - among others - doesn't offer the inexpensive players on the verge of cracking a big-league lineup.

 

Williams has the better shot, so he must ask himself, is there any chance of signing him and is Beltran worth the price you'd pay to make a run this year?

 

Maybe and yes.

 

"But if Philly accepted an average second baseman under contract (arbitration), a young starter with a mid-ceiling and a decent relief pitcher who wore out his welcome for Scott Rolen, do you think Kansas City would accept Mark Grudzielanek (team option for 2005), Sergio Mitre and Kyle Farnsworth for Carlos Beltran?''

 

================================

 

This is a great opportunity for the WHITE SOX to hit the daily-double for the franchise . Beltran has now reached a Griffey like presence in MLB. So to say that he would not be a draw on the SOX is nuts. Better yet the SOX are the best hispanic team

in the majors & this move would accentuate that. Consider the growth of the hispanic community in Chicago this would be a windfall. Both in the short-term & long-term the move makes sense & if it takes 120 MIL do it. The kid is 27 yrs old &

good accomplish more in his career than ShamME Sosa.

 

Kansas City needs young arms more than anything else.

The SOX have more young arms with ML experience than any one else.

It seems like a perfect fit.

 

Who else can offer a Wright or Rauch type player to KC?

Both of these guys have ML experience, some ML success & will certainly improve KC.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Linked threads:

http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=19112 Beltran to SOX

http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=19096 Sele to SOX

[The Beast]

Garcia to White Sox---no link...

[SoxFan562004]

Garcia to White Sox---no link...

I believe Stark on ESPN said Seattle is probably going to move him since there seems like very little possibility of a turnaround this year... Also said Meche and Pinero (SP?) are not likely to be moved unless they get a substantial offer

[SoxAce]

Helton to the sox...

[Iguana]

If somehow KW can pull off a Garcia and Beltran trade, he would totally make my year. not much i wouldnt give up to get them. but ONLY if they are signed beyond next year.

[maggsmaggs]

There is no way the Royals trade Beltran in division. Only the Idiotic Pirates did that and look were the Cubs are and the Pirates are. The only conceivable player to get is Garcia. I would love Beltran, but ain't going to happen. Also, we don't have enough great minor league pitchers that we would need to get him. And I hate the rent-a-player.

[witesoxfan]

There is no way the Royals trade Beltran in division.  Only the Idiotic Pirates did that and look were the Cubs are and the Pirates are.

Exactly, look where they are. They didn't want Ramirez, they didn't need Lofton, and they got Randall Simon back anyways. They got some solid players out of the deal too(most notably, boy-wonder Bobby Hill)

 

People don't understand this. The Royals are willing to trade Carlos Beltran to ANY team. If any team should be concerned about giving up players, it should be the Sox(assuming we couldn't retain him, and I feel that's a good assumption). We are the ones giving up the prospects who will hurt us in the future. Losing Beltran hurts the Royals now, but I don't see how much worse it could get for them, and it doesn't exactly hurt them in the long run. They're like 10 games out of first as it is.

 

Personally, I am willing to give up the "future" to the Royals. Odds are good that we'll win the deal anyways, especially if Beltran could do some damage for us and help us get to the postseason.

[striker]

There is no way the Royals trade Beltran in division.  Only the Idiotic Pirates did that and look were the Cubs are and the Pirates are.  The only conceivable player to get is Garcia.  I would love Beltran, but ain't going to happen.  Also, we don't have enough great minor league pitchers that we would need to get him.  And I hate the rent-a-player.

Agreed. Why would you trade a player to a team that will turn around and beat you?

[Reddy]

although, look where the royals are in the division... its not like its going to hurt them any more to trade in the division than outside of it...

[BrandoFan]

Exactly, look where they are.  They didn't want Ramirez, they didn't need Lofton, and they got Randall Simon back anyways.  They got some solid players out of the deal too(most notably, boy-wonder Bobby Hill)

 

People don't understand this.  The Royals are willing to trade Carlos Beltran to ANY team.  If any team should be concerned about giving up players, it should be the Sox(assuming we couldn't retain him, and I feel that's a good assumption).  We are the ones giving up the prospects who will hurt us in the future.  Losing Beltran hurts the Royals now, but I don't see how much worse it could get for them, and it doesn't exactly hurt them in the long run.  They're like 10 games out of first as it is.

 

Personally, I am willing to give up the "future" to the Royals. Odds are good that we'll win the deal anyways, especially if Beltran could do some damage for us and help us get to the postseason.

Pirates won't finish above 5th in NCL. Cubs in the meantime went from a sub-500 team to a fluke away from World Series. I wonder who made out like a bandit on that deal.....lmao.

 

Beltrans do not win championships. Shillings, Priors and Browns do.

 

I do not want to give up on Honel, Sweeney, Munoz or Reed. Sox can't afford that.

 

Besides....what makes you think Royals are out of it? Their have a very potent offense once Graff comes back and Berrow, Gonzo, Stairs, Sweeney start mashing. May and Anderson and Sullivan and Lescanic have been underachiving and should get better. As long as Sox and Twins stay around .500.....Royals might just get hot ala 2003 start, get another player at the dealine just like Twinkies did in 2003 and make one hellava move. They have a ton of games with the Sox in August and September, so if they're within 5-7 games around ASB, they won't sell off.

[witesoxfan]

Pirates won't finish above 5th in NCL.  Cubs in the meantime went from a sub-500 team to a fluke away from World Series. I wonder who made out like a bandit on that deal.....lmao.

Simon, Ramirez, and Lofton were not going to help the Pirates win a division any time soon. They probably could have gotten more, but didn't. So be it.

 

How much pitching, which was the main drive of the Cubs run, did they get from the Pirates? My point exactly.

 

Beltrans do not win championships. Shillings, Priors and Browns do.   

 

I thought everyone knew that

 

Regardless, Beltran would only help a streaky offense hopefully become more consistent. There are reasons people are talking about getting Schmidt/Garcia types too.

 

I do not want to give up on Honel, Sweeney, Munoz or Reed. Sox can't afford that.   

 

So they make a list of 5-10 prospects who are untouchable, and they only deal those who are available. Seems simple enough to me. Perhaps Sweeney, Anderson, Munoz, Reed, and Honel, along with possibly another two or three, are untradeable unless we can somehow get a Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Mark Prior type pitcher, or if we can somehow get Barry Bonds. I think we all know the odds of getting those types of players.

 

Besides....what makes you think Royals are out of it? 

 

They have no starting pitching, and a weak-ass bullpen. They are suffering what the 2001, 2002, and 2003 Rangers suffered. You can score 7 runs, but if you give up 8, you still lose. I said it in the second week of the season, and I suppose I'll say it again...the Royals are done. They are proving day in and day out that 2003 was a huge fluke, and that they have not been able to catch lightning in a bottle in that rotation. Most of their good starters from last year are gone...Lima's in LA, Hernandez and Ascencio are DLing it, Appier is hanging with Hernandez and Ascencio on the DL, and thus far, May and Anderson have sucked ass. It would take one hell of a run for them to get back into the race.

 

And I don't see the one move that puts them over the top. They need about 2 or 3 good starters and some major bullpen depth. It will cost quite a bit to get that. I don't see them doing it. You consider us and, realistically, we could be one or two moves away from going over the top and running away with the division. Get us an ace(or at the very, very, very least, a solid #2 or #3 starter) and a LH bat, and we could be off to the races.

 

 

 

Do not get me wrong...in no way do I want to overpay for Beltran. But if we can get him for relatively cheap(ala Rauch and Diaz) I do it in a heartbeat. I assume they'd want a hell of a lot more then that, but you never know.

[BrandoFan]

Simon, Ramirez, and Lofton were not going to help the Pirates win a division any time soon.  They probably could have gotten more, but didn't.  So be it.

 

That franchise is dead to me after they helped the Cubs. How dare they.

 

How much pitching, which was the main drive of the Cubs run, did they get from the Pirates?  My point exactly.

 

Let me assure you that without Simon, Lofton and Ramirez getting clutch hit, after clutch hit, after clutch hit, Cubs wouldn't even even SNIFFED the playoffs in 2003.

 

I thought everyone knew that 

 

Apparently not. Entirely too many folks are willing to give up the farm for

Beltin' Beltran. I know people romanticize about 5-tool players...but at some point it gets ridiculous.

 

 

Regardless, Beltran would only help a streaky offense hopefully become more consistent.  There are reasons people are talking about getting Schmidt/Garcia types too.

 

Do you honestly think Sox could swing both Beltran and Schmidt? Kenny couldn't get us Augie Ojeda right now.

 

So they make a list of 5-10 prospects who are untouchable, and they only deal those who are available.  Seems simple enough to me.  Perhaps Sweeney, Anderson, Munoz, Reed, and Honel, along with possibly another two or three, are untradeable unless we can somehow get a Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Mark Prior type pitcher, or if we can somehow get Barry Bonds.  I think we all know the odds of getting those types of players.

 

Put yourself in Alan Baird's position. Would you even entertain the thought of a possibility of a chance of giving up Beltran for some schmuckaroo like #6 or #11 prospect on the Sox depth chart? The first name he will utter will be 'Reed'. Then, he will say 'Honel. And Sweeney.

 

They have no starting pitching, and a weak-ass bullpen.

 

Last year when the fences were moved in, May, Anderson and Affeldt all pitched well. Then you have Gobble who is pretty good already. A 5th starter will be acquired as soon as Royals get into the mix of things.

 

They are suffering what the 2001, 2002, and 2003 Rangers suffered.

 

I disagree. They have an offense that could literally explode, but they also have people who can/could get the job done in rotation and the pen, something Texas never had.. Also, Rangers had a misfortune to play in the same division as Seattle, Anaheium and Oakland....all the while 2004 Royals are playing with Minnesota Twins missing half the people from 2003 due to FA and injuries and of course the perennial losers White Sox.

 

KC has a grossely underachieving rotation.

KC has an underaching BP, Sullivan and Lescanic in particular.

KC has an explosive offense that's been cold so far.

 

KC need another arm in BP and a rotation guy. They have one of the richest people in the universe as their owner, so if they are withn a few games at the Break, they'll get them with ease.

 

Twins aren't gonna run away with s***, and everyone knows Sox aren't anything if not beatable.

 

KC may have dug themselves a huge hole, but make no mistake about it: they have the talent to compete.

 

I do hope I am wrong and they roll over and DIE, though.

 

Do not get me wrong...in no way do I want to overpay for Beltran.  But if we can get him for relatively cheap(ala Rauch and Diaz) I do it in a heartbeat.  I assume they'd want a hell of a lot more then that, but you never know.

 

Don't be modest, Wite -- you are smart enough to KNOW that this is ML and KC GM is no dummy. Put yourself in his shoes.

[YASNY]

I'm not sure how much KC will be able to get for Beltran. Take into consideration that Beltran WILL test the FA market (Boras as agent = bidding war). Look back to the Phillies when they dumped Rolen. Who'd they get? Think about it.

[hammerhead johnson]

Better yet the SOX are the best hispanic team

in the majors

naah

[hammerhead johnson]

Who else can offer a Wright or Rauch type player to KC?

Just about anyone, I'd have to assume.

[hammerhead johnson]

KC has a grossely underachieving rotation.

Who is any good in that rotation? I figured that Affeldt would be somewhat decent this year, but even he has had some issues. I can't think of anyone in that rotation that I'd want on the Sox with the exception of Affeldt. I'm not really sold on Brian Anderson.

[BrandoFan]

Who is any good in that rotation?

 

Gobble has an ERA in 3.00s and both May and Anderson had a sub-4.00 ERA last year. They're awful this year, but you never know.

[beck72]

There is no way the Royals trade Beltran in division. 

 

 

 

 

 

And I hate the rent-a-player.

If KC trades Beltran, to whomever, they are giving up the season. With their pitching the way it is [and not hitting as advertised w/ Berroa, Juan Gone and Santiago slumping] I'd say their season is toast soon anyway.

 

Trading Beltran to the Sox will hurt them this year. No question. Yet it's only for 1 year, a season they have thrown in the towel. KC knows the Sox can't afford to keep both Maggs and Beltran in 2005. If the sox sign Beltran, no Maggs. Sign Maggs, no Beltran. The 2005 Sox won't be a juggernaut that KC made by trading Beltran. Beltran likely won't be in the division. It's the Sox who stand to get bitten by the trade within the division not KC.

 

Trading Beltran is to improve KC for the future. Where they can get the best deal is who they'll trade with. The Sox should match up very well with what KC's asking price is. KC needs pitching and OF help. With Borchard now coming on, you can add his name into the mix for trades or as part of the Sox future. With Cotts a probable part of the Sox SP plans for 2005, another pitching prospect is expendable.

 

For those who hate the rent-a-player:

 

Don't forget. Letting Beltran go but offering him arbitration will yield two supplement picks. The Sox picked up 4 early draft picks with Colon and Gordon leaving via free agency. I think KW likes a decent rent a player who can yield picks. With Beltran making $9 mill. this year and looking to make $15mill, per, he'll decline arbitration. So the rent a year guys to avoid would be those who would probably accept it and would be making more than they were worth.

[Harry Chappas]

Trade for Beltran and then he and Maggs leave after the season could give the Sox at least six picks in the top 40 assuming they get only one other sandwich pick for Valentin, Koch, Schoenweis or Loiaza if they leave via free agency. This would soften the blow of anything we were to give up for him which is why I am not sure KC will just give him up as they could use two picks as well.

[WSox30]

I hope we get beltran even though I never think that the royals would trade him. If we get him, that ALMOST locks the playoffs up for us and maybe even home field advantage in the first round. The fact of the matter is we dont need to worry about acquiring someone, KW will get the job done.

[beck72]

Trade for Beltran and then he and Maggs leave after the season could give the Sox at least six picks in the top 40 assuming they get only one other sandwich pick for Valentin, Koch, Schoenweis or Loiaza if they leave via free agency.  This would soften the blow of anything we were to give up for him which is why I am not sure KC will just give him up as they could use two picks as well.

Teams get draft picks based on the type of free agent they are classified, and those who are offered arbitration. [based on performance over the last couple of years] I believe Colon and Gordon were type "A" FA. The Sox got 2nd rd picks for Gordon. Minn. got 4 picks after the 1st round by losing Eddie and LaTroy.

 

Loaiza might qualify. Yet Koch and Valentin won't be offered arbitration. That would mean they'd get a salary similar to the one they had in 2004 if the sox went to arbitration w/ them. No thanks.

 

Schoeneweis has a team option for 2005, similar to what Loaiza had this year. The Sox could get him back for a bargain [around $3, 4 mill] if he continues like this all year.

[witesoxfan]

That franchise is dead to me after they helped the Cubs. How dare they.

 

They finish in the lower third of that division every year for a reason, and part of it is trading away good players for s***(I think the main part of that deal was Jose Hernandez...Jose f***ing Hernandez for crying out loud. What in the f***? And what's even worse, this guy got Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for a guy that put up a 6.00 ERA for us).

 

Let me assure you that without Simon, Lofton and Ramirez getting clutch hit, after clutch hit, after clutch hit, Cubs wouldn't even even SNIFFED the playoffs in 2003.     

 

This is a definite possibility.

 

I mean, unless you think Jose Hernandez was gonna do it for them

 

Apparently not.  Entirely too many folks are willing to give up the farm for

Beltin' Beltran.  I know people romanticize about 5-tool players...but at some point it gets ridiculous.

 

5-tool players are b****in.

 

But we have a couple guys on the team who could be 5-tool-esque players. Uribe and Maggs off the top of my head, and if you consider Carlos to have good defense and a good arm, he can also be considered a 5-tool player.

 

Not quite to the extent of Beltran, but they are 5-toolers nonetheless.

 

Do you honestly think Sox could swing both Beltran and Schmidt?  Kenny couldn't get us Augie Ojeda right now. 

 

No I don't. I think KW could get Schmidt, but I don't think he would, nor do I think he should, get Beltran. What San Fran doesn't take to get Schmidt, KC will probably want. We give up Reed and Honel for Schmidt, KC will want Sweeney/Anderson and Cotts. Too big a price to pay for a rent-a-player and an injury-prone pitcher.

 

However, give KW some credit. You yourself said you thought he could get us Ben Grieve

 

Put yourself in Alan Baird's position.  Would you even entertain the thought of a possibility of a chance of giving up Beltran for some schmuckaroo like #6 or #11 prospect on the Sox depth chart?

 

I don't know. It depends on what kind of other offers I'm getting. There are a lot of things to look into a try to find out. Say the Yankees are offering me their #1 prospect and their #6 prospect...I will look to see how their minor league system is(maybe they're top heavy, or IOW, maybe the top 10 prospects are killer but it lacks depth...maybe by top heavy I mean that they have quite a few quality players who are damn near ready to play in the big leagues...maybe for instance I don't know what I mean by top heavy) and determine if getting the Yankees #1 and #6 prospect is better then getting the Sox #6 and #11 prospect. Assuming it is, I would ask the Sox to see if they want to up their offer or not. Try to get into a bidding war like that.

 

It's like an auction. You don't say the value is something and then not back down. You progressively make the offers bigger until you get the best offer.

 

Last year when the fences were moved in, May, Anderson and Affeldt all pitched well.  Then you have Gobble who is pretty good already.    A 5th starter will be acquired as soon as Royals get into the mix of things. 

 

How do we know that wasn't lightning in a bottle, like I said earlier.

 

And a 5th starter will probably be acquired IF the Royals get into the mix of things, not as soon as. They are not back in it yet (but in the same regard, one can say they aren't out if it, though I do think they are out of it)

 

I disagree.  They have an offense that could literally explode, but they also have people who can/could get the job done in rotation and the pen, something Texas never had..  Also, Rangers had a misfortune to play in the same division as Seattle, Anaheium and Oakland....all the while 2004 Royals are playing with Minnesota Twins missing half the people from 2003 due to FA and injuries and of course the perennial losers White Sox. 

 

Texas also had ARod, IRod(for part of the years), Juan Gone(see IRod), Palmeiro, Teixiera, Blalock, Young. Texas's offense was much, much more explosive then KC's is.

 

And the only one in KC's staff who has proved to be real effective this year is Gobble.

 

This not mentioning that their bullpen has been horrid...Leskanic forgot how to throw it over the plate, Sullivan is getting lit up like a XMas tree, Grimsley has struggled with control, Field has been not so good...right now, they have no one in the bullpen that I would want on the Sox, with the exception of probably Grimsley.

 

They have to turn it around quick, or they ARE done, whether they like it or not.

 

KC need another arm in BP and a rotation guy.  They have one of the richest people in the universe as their owner, so if they are withn a few games at the Break, they'll get them with ease.

 

If they have one of the richest people in the universe as their owner, how come they are not even considering resigning Beltran? Why didn't they go after a Curt Schilling or a Javy Vazquez or a Kevin Brown in the offseason? Why not sign both Benetiz and Urbina?

 

Twins aren't gonna run away with s***, and everyone knows Sox aren't anything if not beatable.

 

The Sox are beatable right now. Get the Sox an ace, some bullpen depth, and a solid LH hitter for the middle of the lineup(or at the least, a sparkplug-type player for the middle of the order), and I believe they can run away with this thing. They have to get those things first, and that will not be easy.

 

KC may have dug themselves a huge hole, but make no mistake about it:  they have the talent to compete.

 

They may have the talent, but as the Sox have proven in the past, talent doesn't get you s*** if you ain't got a team. That sounds corny and stupid, but it's the truth.

 

Don't be modest, Wite -- you are smart enough to KNOW that this is ML and KC GM is no dummy.  Put yourself in his shoes.

 

As I said, I'll take the best offer I get. Obviously, I'm not going to take Wright anymore, but if the best offer I get is Rauch and Diaz, that's the offer I take.

 

I highly doubt that is the best offer they receive, but I thought the Pirates were going to get a hell of a lot more then Jose f***ing Hernandez and Boy-Wonder for essentially those big 3.

 

So, like I said...you never know.

[BrandoFan]

However, give KW some credit. You yourself said you thought he could get us Ben Grieve

 

I knew Augie Ojeda, and Ben Grive is no Augie Ojeda.

[witesoxfan]

I knew Augie Ojeda, and Ben Grive is no Augie Ojeda.