Borchard on the rebound?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Has anyone been following Borchard down at AAA? I just looked at his states and his average has risen about 30 points since I last looked at it. He is now batting .267 with 9 doubles and 5 homers. And more importantly, only 26 SO in 35 games.

 

So, is Joe Boarchard on the rebound? Or is this just a blip?

[Guest JimH]

It'll be interesting to see if he can sustain it. He still isn't drawing a lot of walks, only 10 in 131 AB's, but he's putting the ball in play more.

 

His strikeout rate is down to 1 in every 5 AB's - historically it's been 1 in every 3.

 

If he's finally starting to "get it", the good news is we should know pretty fast.

With his tools, he'll start dominating AAA pitching. Average up to .290 - .300, continuing to reduce the strikeout rate, etc.

 

Personally, I'd like to see him more selective at the plate, i.e. more walks. All in all though, it's very fair to say it is encouraging what we've seen the last few weeks from him. I'm rooting for him.

[YASNY]

This is good news indeed. Let's hope he can keep it going.

[BrandoFan]

Yes, we will know when Borchard is "ready".

 

450 OBP, 700 Slug.

 

That's what He Seap Choi, Julio Zuleta Michael Cuddayer and Justin Murneu would have put up in the Charlotte Park, third time around AAA pitchng. And they still sucked in the majors.

 

330 OBP, 450 Slug under those circumstamces is still a disgrace.

 

[/perspective]

[Guest JimH]

Unfortunately, with a minor league player, it isn't all about stats.

 

It would be nice to look at on base plus slugging, slugging %, all that stuff, and come to a definitive conclusion as to whether a guy is ready or not.

 

We don't have the luxury of seeing these guys play.

 

Let's suppose Borchard strikes out twice in tonite's game, we say he had a bad game. Maybe the minor league ump had a bad game too, and called him out on two pitches 8 inches outside. In that case, his plate discipline is good, but he's gotten a bad rap.

 

It's more than stats. We, unfortunately, have to rely on people who earn their living watching and evaluating baseball players to make the right call. I would like to hear what Wilder says about Borchard and his recent uptick.

[mac9001]

If he keeps hitting the crap out of the ball and if were still looking for a CFer mid June, JB should get a chance.

[BrandoFan]

Unfortunately, with a minor league player, it isn't all about stats.

 

It would be nice to look at on base plus slugging, slugging %, all that stuff, and come to a definitive conclusion as to whether a guy is ready or not.

 

We don't have the luxury of seeing these guys play.

 

Let's suppose Borchard strikes out twice in tonite's game, we say he had a bad game.  Maybe the minor league ump had a bad game too, and called him out on two pitches 8 inches outside.  In that case, his plate discipline is good, but he's gotten a bad rap.

 

It's more than stats.  We, unfortunately, have to rely on people who earn their living watching and evaluating baseball players to make the right call.  I would like to hear what Wilder says about Borchard and his recent uptick.

Stats can tell you as much if not more than watching the player will over the course of many atbats.

 

Which is not to say that Borchard has been hanging frozen ropes every other at bat in the last 3 years because we know that's far from truth -- if anything, he's been "muscling" out cheap homers out of the Charlotte park that are outs in the bigs.

 

You can have huge numbers in AAA and still suck in the majors -- baseball history is littered with guys who hit 50+ homers, 150+ RBI in the minors and not even dented the majors.........BUT, when you are TERRIBLE in the minors, that says EVERYTHING about a player.

 

Whether his huge struggles are mental, physical or talent-related - or likely a weird amalgalm of all three - Borchard has LOOOOOOOOONG way to go to being the kind of a player we all envisioned IMO.

[Guest JimH]

I doubt there have been 20 guys in the last 20 years who have hit 50 HR and 150 RBI and haven't even dented the majors.

 

Muscling out cheap HR's in a small Charlotte park?

 

Yeah, ok. He hits none on the road?

 

The point with Borchard has been, and is, his ability to have things "click". He is not your average minor league prospect. This is a guy who didn't play or concentrate on baseball full-time until he turned pro. That's a huge difference from most if not all prospects in the minor leagues.

 

That's why stats don't tell AS MUCH of the story with Borchard. There is a special set of circumstances with this guy. Would I have liked to have him turned things on sooner? Yes. Is it as much about minor league stats with him as with another player in AAA? No.

 

Whether we like it or not, he's a unique case without the same experience level and depth of baseball knowledge as most guys his age.

 

The real debate is, do you draft a guy like that at #12, with that level of high risk/high reward? And pay him $5.3 big ones to test the theory?

 

So far, it has not paid off. He is coming along much slower than expected, I would say by 12 months. The reality is though, a long minor league apprenticeship should not have been unexpected.

 

The real answer - and litmus test for the Sox player personnel dept. - is when and if they decide he's "ready". Their judgement will be less based on stats than other minor league prospects. Sounds weird, but it will be true.

 

Then, at the major league level (IF he gets there), we can talk all about OPS, etc.

[1549]

Yes, we will know when Borchard is "ready".

 

450 OBP, 700 Slug.

 

That's what He Seap Choi, Julio Zuleta Michael Cuddayer and Justin Murneu would have put up in the Charlotte Park, third time around AAA pitchng. And they still sucked in the majors.

 

330 OBP, 450 Slug under those circumstamces is still a disgrace.

 

[/perspective]

Choi and Cuddyer aren't done writing their chapters in baseball yet.

 

Neither is Borchard.

[BrandoFan]

I doubt there have been 20 guys in the last 20 years who have hit 50 HR and 150 RBI and haven't even dented the majors.

 

Whatever, you can use 30 hr, 120 rbi standard if you wish. The point still stands -- mL stats do not translate well to ML production, and whatever Borchard has done in the last couple of years is laughable.

 

And I could care less what Sox management considers "ready"; their motives and methods of evaluation are their own.

 

Right now he's not even at the 'r' let alone 'eady'

 

YMMV.

[BrandoFan]

I also do not agree that he is behind the "curve" by only 12 months.

 

Or maybe he is just a Talent away from the bigs. Who knows.

[Guest JimH]

Whatever, you can use 30 hr, 120 rbi standard if you wish.  The point still stands -- mL stats do not translate well to ML production,  and whatever Borchard has done in the last couple of years is laughable.

 

And I could care less what Sox management considers "ready";  their motives and methods of evaluation are their own.   

 

Right now he's not even at the 'r' let alone 'eady'

 

YMMV.

Then don't say 50 HR, 150 RBI and use that as a standard.

 

You're so busy yakking about everything, stuff comes out of your mouth and then you don't want anyone quoting your words, it's always "the point still stands".

 

My point, Mr. OPS, is stats don't tell the whole story. And you, I, or anyone on this board knows when he's ready ... with or without an "r".

 

Ever hear this phrase - "Less is more"? Try it some time.

 

Oh, and ... "Thanks for feigning concern"

[Dick Allen]

Borchard coming into this year, had played 393 minor league games. He played hurt last year, and his development slowed. He has tremendous power. And when he hits homeruns they are shots. He hit a 420 foot line drive in his first game with the White Sox. Due to the fact he was a big football star, he has not played a lot of baseball relatively speaking, for a professional his age. He has a lot of ability. He is a very hard worker, and is hard on himself. Trying to justify his bonus, doesn't help him either. Don't count last year against him, he had a wrist injury. The upside is tremendous, Baseball Prospectus compares his late development to Jay Buhner.

[aboz56]

Isn't this the same thread I started a few days ago... :headshake

[Dick Allen]

Stats can tell you as much if not more than watching the player will over the course of many atbats.

 

Which is not to say that Borchard has been hanging frozen ropes every other at bat in the last 3 years because we know that's far from truth -- if anything, he's been "muscling" out cheap homers out of the Charlotte park that are outs in the bigs.

 

You can have huge numbers in AAA and still suck in the majors -- baseball history is littered with guys who hit 50+ homers, 150+ RBI  in the minors and not even dented the majors.........BUT, when you are TERRIBLE in the minors, that says EVERYTHING about a player.

 

Whether his huge struggles are mental, physical or talent-related - or likely a weird amalgalm of all three - Borchard has LOOOOOOOOONG way to go to being the kind of a player we all envisioned IMO.

You obviously aren't familiar with Jose Valentin's minor league statistics.

[BrandoFan]

Then don't say 50 HR, 150 RBI and use that as a standard.

 

You're so busy yakking about everything, stuff comes out of your mouth and then you don't want anyone quoting your words, it's always "the point still stands".

 

My point, Mr. OPS, is stats don't tell the whole story.  And you, I, or anyone on this board knows when he's ready ... with or without an "r".

 

Ever hear this phrase - "Less is more"?  Try it some time.

 

Oh, and ... "Thanks for feigning concern" 

I didn't say you could use the last 20 years only because, you see, "baseball history" is just a tiny bit older than that.....

 

Don't f*ck with my point, momo. It stands. Possibly outside of time.

 

Stats don't tell the whole story? Agreed.

 

No, never heard that one.

 

Don't mention it.

[danman31]

Don't f*** with my point, momo. It stands.  Possibly outside of time. 

It's funny because he said you would say that and there you go. You are so unbelievably stubborn. It's almost hilarious when I'm a bistander, but you are such a bully. You try to intimidate people and make them sound like idiots to get your point across and make it sound like you are right.

[BrandoFan]

It's funny because he said you would say that and there you go. You are so unbelievably stubborn. It's almost hilarious when I'm a bistander, but you are such a bully. You try to intimidate people and make them sound like idiots to get your point across and make it sound like you are right.

[Dick Allen]

-- baseball history is littered with guys who hit 50+ homers, 150+ RBI  in the minors and not even dented the majors.........BUT, when you are TERRIBLE in the minors, that says EVERYTHING about a player.

Can you name a few of these players?

[BrandoFan]

Can you name a few of these players?

Hint: one in particular played in one of the Texas leagues in the 40's

[Dick Allen]

Hint:  one in particular played in one of the Texas leagues in  the 40's

Yes the one guy Joe Bauman who hit 72 homers and never played in the majors. Your quote was "littered". That means you are aware of several more. You insult me and everyone else who ever disagrees with you, so how about backing up your statement?

[BrandoFan]

Yes the one guy Joe Bauman who hit 72 homers and never played in the majors. Your quote was "littered". That means you are aware of several more. You insult me and everyone else who ever disagrees with you, so how about backing up your statement?

Mario Valenzula is the other one.

[Dick Allen]

Mario Valenzula is the other one.

I take that to mean you have no idea.

[BrandoFan]

I take that to mean you have no idea.

And I, in turn, take that to mean that you are blissfully unaware of the fact that Super Mario has hit 50+ HR with 150+ RBI in the minors, and has indeed never "dented" the majors.

 

[Dick Allen]

And I, in turn, take that to mean that you are blissfully unaware of the fact that Super Mario has hit 50+ HR with 150+  RBI in the minors, and has indeed never "dented" the majors.

 

You're right. In his minor league career, he has.