Pitchers the Sox Should Acquire

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well, eventually, we are going to have to give up on someone in the outfield - we are going to have one hell of a logjam, which isn't a terrible thing.  Ordonez-Lee-Borchard-Reed-Sweeney-Anderson.  That's six right there, and hopefully Borchard can still be the player we all once thought that he would be.

 

Fact is, we NEED a fifth starter.  We cannot continue to piss away every fifth game, it's a damn joke.  I'd like to see Rauch given another shot though, before we make a trade.

I agree with you. I was just saying that I wouldn't give up both Lee and Borchard for, Garcia.

[BrandoFan]

Again, getting rid of Borchard would be stupid. His value is very low right now.

 

Lee - he's just getting hot, starting to hit to CF-LCF finally. Now he needs to start lining outside fastballs to RF/RCF and his production will shoot up. That means his value will be back to 'decent', even with a big contract.

 

Oakland is an option - with Angel pitching sucking and Anderson/Glauss sustaining big injuries, they're a VladimiR Guerrero disk re-injury away from falling off the wagon. That means Oakland can easily compete, if not win ALW/

 

With Tejada gone and Dye filling in the 4-spot shoes, they need a #5 hitter who can DH/1B and drive in big runs. Karros can hit LHP, but he is brutal against righties. I am sure Billy Beane won't be averse to getting Palmeiro at a prorated cost, which won't be much.

 

Anyway, Zito is a possibility now that he is struggling and A's have another prospect ready to join Harden, Hudson, Mulder and the crafty lefty.

 

Glavine.

 

Unit, depending if his knee passes a physical.

 

Ditto Schmidt and the elbow/shoulder

 

Freddy Garcia would be nice. Perez. Wells.

[hammerhead johnson]

While I would certainly welcome Garcia on the Sox, His numbers away from Safco Field have been anything but dominating.

 

Home (4 starts) 2.00ERA .197BAA

Away (4 starts) 3.74ERA .274BAA

 

Most Disturbing is his GB/FB ratio -- 74/72(1.03) would not cut it in USCF. Garland(1.20), Buerhle(1.33), Loaiza(1.19), and Schoeneweis(1.28) all have better ratios. Hell even Neal Cotts has a better GB/FB ratio than does Garcia. All four of the Sox starters have a better ERA&BAA away from home -- USCF(especially with the new roof) is a hitters park. To succeed there, you have to keep the ball down and get the ground ball --

 

Garcia is a good pitcher, but he's not the best fit on the southside.

 

Again, I'd welcome him to the southside, but his ERA would take a beating if he keeps throwing those flyballs at USCF

And that is what I would call a kick ass analysis.

[BrandoFan]

The "book" on Freddy Garcia inexplicably struggling the last couple of years mentions something about a "lazy, cocain-dabbling asshole".

 

I doubt the veracity of such rumors, but other than "ace stuff" there is nothing about Freddy Garcia that says "ace". A very good #3, sure.

 

I just think Sox need an ace to slide everyone else back. If Garcia can be had without breaking the bank, fine, but let's not salivate over someone with his track record, to say nothing of the splits that Cheat provided above.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The book on Freddy Garcia struggling the last coupoe of years mentions something about a "lazy, cocain-dabbling asshole".

 

I doubt the veracity of rumors, but other than "ace stuff" there is nothing about Freddy Garcia that says "ace".    A very good #3, sure.

 

I just think Sox need an ace to slide everyone else back. If Garcia can be had without breaking the bank, fine, but let's not salivate over someone with his track record, to say nothing of the splits that Cheat provided above.

Cocain? What did u mean by that?

[hammerhead johnson]

The book on Freddy Garcia struggling the last coupoe of years mentions something about a "lazy, cocaine-dabbling asshole".

As opposed to Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden, who were "motivated, cocaine-dabbling assholes".

 

That is just a sad story if it's true.

[whitesoxin']

If we could trade PK for any of those guys, I would be a very happy man. I think Pauly is on the decline, while Lee is starting to come around and is still young. Lee is a warm weather guy and will have another huge year this year.

[BrandoFan]

As opposed to Darryl Strawberry and Dwight Gooden, who were "motivated, cocaine-dabbling assholes".

 

That is just a sad story if it's true.

I doubt the "cocain" part.

 

But the lazy asshole part? Very possible.

 

He really underachived in 2002-2003 away from Safeco, and I simply do not trust him to take the ball 2 times in ALDS against Red Sox or the Yankees....

[Soxfest]

Do not know if anyone on the list will come our way but, Sox CANNOT wait till July to get that pitcher need to do it NOW.

[CWSGuy406]

The "book" on Freddy Garcia inexplicably struggling the last couple of years mentions something about a "lazy, cocain-dabbling asshole".

 

I doubt the veracity of such rumors, but other than "ace stuff" there is nothing about Freddy Garcia that says "ace".    A very good #3, sure.

 

I just think Sox need an ace to slide everyone else back. If Garcia can be had without breaking the bank, fine, but let's not salivate over someone with his track record, to say nothing of the splits that Cheat provided above.

I hear he and Ozzie are buds, maybe Ozzie could get him to perform a bit better as well as keep him in line. And even with Cheat's numbers, a 3.74 road ERA isn't brutal. In fact, if you stick him in the number three spot after Buerhle and Loaiza, we'd have a very good rotation.

 

Which brings me to the question, where do you guys think our Top 4 starters, as of now, stand among the AL's Best?

 

I think these teams have better top 4's than us - New York, Boston, Oakland, Anahiem. I think we're right in the five or six area in the AL as of now with our staff. Adding a quality two, three, or four starter might put us right even with Anahiem, IMO.

[hammerhead johnson]

I think that Tom Glavine is the most realistic option. KW dealt with the Mets last year, so I'm assuming that they have better chemistry than say, Billy Beane and KW or Sabean and KW. I think that they'll accept an offer of Diaz, Rauch, and an A ball prospect. You could also substitute Munoz for Diaz.

 

If Tom Glavine is healthy, he can definitely perform in the playoffs.

 

Guys like Randy Johnson, Jason Schmidt, and Ben Sheets would cost us way too much in the long run. There is no way in hell anyone will take Carlos Lee or Paul Konerko off our hands. If we were to trade for Johnson, it would be like highway robbery. They'd take the two best prospects in our system (whoever they may be), among others.

[Rowand44]

I doubt the "cocain" part.

 

But the lazy asshole part?  Very possible. 

 

He really underachived in 2002-2003 away from Safeco, and I simply do not trust him to take the ball 2 times in ALDS against Red Sox or the Yankees....

Brando can we let the sox get to the playoffs before we start setting the rotation.

[CWSGuy406]

Brando can we let the sox get to the playoffs before we start setting the rotation.

Well, he's right though - I mean, think about it. A five game series begins in the bronx.

 

The Sox send Mark Buerhle to the hill vs. Javier Vazquez. OK, not bad, especially if Buerhle is pitching like he is now, plus lefties in the Stadium are always a plus.

 

But from there, I mean I like Loaiza, but he'd go up against Kevin Brown/Mike Mussina.

 

A guy like Kris Benson would be a stop-gap to get us some wins out of the five spot, some good starts. But what about the potential post-season?

 

I'm glad Brando brought that up, actually.

[Rowand44]

Well, he's right though - I mean, think about it.  A five game series begins in the bronx.

 

The Sox send Mark Buerhle to the hill vs. Javier Vazquez.  OK, not bad, especially if Buerhle is pitching like he is now, plus lefties in the Stadium are always a plus.

 

But from there, I mean I like Loaiza, but he'd go up against Kevin Brown/Mike Mussina.

 

A guy like Kris Benson would be a stop-gap to get us some wins out of the five spot, some good starts.  But what about the potential post-season?

 

I'm glad Brando brought that up, actually.

That's fine, but last year I thought if the sox got into the playoffs they would have absolutely been deadly with their rotation but they never got there. The first step is to make it into the playoffs then worry about the rotation. Trust me I would absolutely love to get an ace such as R.J. but that's going to be very hard to do. IF the sox were to make the playoffs I wouldn't mind any of the pitching matchups, our top four starters keep us in every game. While I definitely understand brando's point I'm just saying it's premature to set the playoff rotation.

[aboz56]

If KW does this deal, he's a God:

 

Carlos Lee, Joe Borchard

              for

Freddy Garcia

 

I've given up on Borchard and it's time to let Reed come in and see what he's all about. Or you could just put Gload in Left.

Borchard with 3 homers today, now hitting .276 with 8 jacks and 31 rbi's...Looks like you have given up far too early, NO WAY I do that deal.

[EvilMonkey]

Every time I read these trade posts, I realize that most of the Sox fans here posting are the opposite of Cubs fans when it comes to trade value. Cubs fans seem to think their worthless scrub players are wanted by all and can be traded straight up for a team's #1 starter or hitter (ie. Juan Cruz for ). Most of the people I see here seem to undervalue the Sox players values in trades (ie, say Perez for Borchard, Honel and Konerko). Lee has trade value. Just because some of you here think he sucks, doesn't mean he is without trade value. And other teams that have good pitchers to trade may not be dealing from positions of power, so won't be able to ask for the moon. If Arizona could get rid of Johnson's albatros of a contract, and still get something in return, they would probably do it. But not 3 or 4 players/prospects in return. And with the way the Sox offense usually puts up numbers, Garcia would be an excellent fit. He beats anything else we have had in the #5 slot, or whichever number you move him to. If it costs Lee, that would be OK. You have to give something to get something. But I don't see it costing anything more than Lee.

 

And BrandoFan, why can't Buehrle be that #1 guy? Who would have thought that ANY of the Florida pitchers would have done what they did last year. C'mon, did you, or anyone other than a Marlins fan, really think they could have done what they did? Get us to the playoffs, and the guys we got now can do fine. But we need to GET there first.

[hammerhead johnson]

Lee has trade value.

What's his salary again?

[aboz56]

What's his salary again?

Near 7 million this year, I believe.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I hear he and Ozzie are buds, maybe Ozzie could get him to perform a bit better as well as keep him in line.  And even with Cheat's numbers, a 3.74 road ERA isn't brutal.

It doesn't compare well with any of our starters away from USCF though

 

 

Pitcher	Road ERA	Home ERA
Garland	2.57*	4.28
Schoeneweis	2.48	4.82
Buerhle	2.31	5.00
Loaiza	3.79	4.67
Garcia	3.72	2.00

 

*Does not include todays start -- Ok I didn't want to seem like I was manipulating numbers, so I crunched them myself -- JG's New Road ERa is 3.85, still less than his ERA at home --

 

So what can we expect from garcia if he were to wear black on the soutside? I think every home start would be an adventure -- Just like Loaiza's have become, as he's had problems with the longball at USCF this season(7 HR's in 27IP compared to 3 in 35.2 on the road).

 

Again -- I'm not ripping Garcia, I'd be downright giddy if we had a starting five with JG, MB, SS, EL, and Freddy Garcia -- I just don't wanna give up the farm to get a guy who may not be suited to play in our park.

[beck72]

Garcia is having a year just like his stellar 2001. The personal innuendo aside, Garcia is the best, most logical and practical pitcher the Sox could expect to get. [At least anytime before late July]. Look at some of the numbers. Garcia not giving up the long ball is a sure sign he has his good "stuff".

 

http://www.whitesoxcentral.com/becker002.php

[aboz56]

I just don't wanna give up the farm to get a guy who may not be suited to play in our park.

I agree, our park is a big time hitters park and there are only a handful of pitchers in baseball that could sport a era under 3.00 there for a full season.

[greasywheels121]

What I wouldn't give to see Kip Wells back with us.  That would heal the pain from the Todd Ritchie debacle & give us a really SOLID rotation.

Agreed. I really liked Kip, and he's really become a great pitcher for a mediocre ballclub. I would love to see him don a Chisox uni again.

[beck72]

While I would certainly welcome Garcia on the Sox, His numbers away from Safco Field have been anything but dominating.

 

Home (4 starts) 2.00ERA .197BAA

Away (4 starts) 3.74ERA .274BAA

 

Most Disturbing is his GB/FB ratio -- 74/72(1.03) would not cut it in USCF. Garland(1.20), Buerhle(1.33), Loaiza(1.19), and Schoeneweis(1.28) all have better ratios. Hell even Neal Cotts has a better GB/FB ratio than does Garcia. All four of the Sox starters have a better ERA&BAA away from home -- USCF(especially with the new roof) is a hitters park. To succeed there, you have to keep the ball down and get the ground ball --

 

Garcia is a good pitcher, but he's not the best fit on the southside.

 

Again, I'd welcome him to the southside, but his ERA would take a beating if he keeps throwing those flyballs at USCF

I think those numbers are just for this year. I believe his road record is pretty decent over the course of his career. And he's done well vs. the Yanks

 

Garcia's FB/ GB ratio isn't all that bad. He gets more GB's overall. He'd be fine for USCF, as a RHP. A LHP, who gave up a lot of FB [like Jarod Washburn] might struggle more than a guy like Garcia.

[CWSGuy406]

It doesn't compare well with any of our starters away from USCF though

 

 

Pitcher	Road ERA	Home ERA
Garland	2.57*	4.28
Schoeneweis	2.48	4.82
Buerhle	2.31	5.00
Loaiza	3.79	4.67
Garcia	3.72	2.00

 

*Does not include todays start -- Ok I didn't want to seem like I was manipulating numbers, so I crunched them myself -- JG's New Road ERa is 3.85, still less than his ERA at home --

 

So what can we expect from garcia if he were to wear black on the soutside?  I think every home start would be an adventure -- Just like Loaiza's have become, as he's had problems with the longball at USCF this season(7 HR's in 27IP compared to 3 in 35.2 on the road).

 

Again -- I'm not ripping Garcia, I'd be downright giddy if we had a starting five with JG, MB, SS, EL, and Freddy Garcia -- I just don't wanna give up the farm to get a guy who may not be suited to play in our park.

Alright, that's understandable, especially considering what Borchard has been doing as of late. But would you trade Lee for Garcia straight up? IF that offer was on the table, not saying it is because I think we'd have to give up a bit more than Lee to get Freddy, but would you do Lee for Garcia?

[Gene Honda Civic]

So what should we do then Cheat?? I agree with you, giving up a s***load of talent for a temperory fix isnt smart, but what other options do we have???

Well for right now, I stand pat. -- I know KW is working the phones. After this offseason where KW wouldn't make a move just for the sake of making a move, he gained a ton of respect from me. I know now that KW will no longer mortgage the future of the franchise. So I have faith in him.

 

As rex said before the Sox may be going to a 4 man rotation until June 13 when this becomes an issue again. I think they may throw Cotts one more time out there(saturday is rumored). I'd have him throw again on Tuesday to set himself up for that --

 

Then, I wait until June -- More teams will be out of the race by then. There will be more players available -- Garcia may be the guy. I may even be willing to part with Lee at that point, but never in combination with Borchard -- For right now, I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, perse.