BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 That's fine, but last year I thought if the sox got into the playoffs they would have absolutely been deadly with their rotation but they never got there Lie #1: Sox would have been steamrolling people in the playoffs in 2003 if only *tear* they got there. Esteban Loaiza was out of gas in September and likely would have suffered the same fate as Zambrano. Judy is Judy. Colon and Buerhle could have been decent, but that probably wouldn't have been enough against much better prepared and experienced Red Sox/Yankees since Thomas-Ordonez-Lee-Konerko have a history of overswinging and choking in the playoffs (2000) and other big games. Comparison with Florida is not apt. Florida was the best team in NL since McKeon took reins in May - and that despite the fact that they played in a tough-ass division in NLE. Sox didn't have anyone like Josh Beckett and Ivan Rodriguez to step up and carry them through ALDS. Secondly.......Why wouldn't you try to get better for the playoffs AND solve the #5 problem at the same time? What the hell do you propose Sox do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Agreed. I really liked Kip, and he's really become a great pitcher for a mediocre ballclub Kip Wells has good stuff, but he is not "great" pitcher by any stretch. He is another #3 on a good team. I have a feeling that in AL, under playoff pressure, he is just a 4.00 pitcher, which is good, but nothing special. Of course I'll take him no prob, but Sox better not give up Cotts and Honel for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Lie #1: Sox would have been steamrolling people in the playoffs in 2003 if only *tear* they got there. Esteban Loaiza was out of gas in September and likely would have suffered the same fate as Zambrano. Judy is Judy. Colon and Buerhle could have been decent, but that probably wouldn't have been enough against much better prepared and experienced Red Sox/Yankees since Thomas-Ordonez-Lee-Konerko have a history of overswinging and choking in the playoffs (2000) and other big games. Comparison with Florida is not apt. Florida was the best team in NL since McKeon took reins in May - and that despite the fact that they played in a tough-ass division in NLE. Sox didn't have anyone like Josh Beckett and Ivan Rodriguez to step up and carry them through ALDS. Secondly.......Why wouldn't you try to get better for the playoffs AND solve the #5 problem at the same time? What the hell do you propose Sox do? I disagree with the sox getting steamrolled, they would have really really been tough in the playoffs, loaiza might have been a little gased but bartolo, buehrle and garland were all pitching great. I said I agree the sox should go and look for an ace if possible but it's just not that easy. I'm just saying it's not time to look to the playoffs just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Schmidt - Luv to hav him but I think even if Sabean blows that team up guys like Rueter and Piersynki will be goin instead. Luv his stuff but his arm worries me too. Garcia - Freddy's last 2 starts haven't been too flash I think hopefully he's not wearing off, I'd wonder if we could go afta mayb Meche, Moyer or Pineiro instead. Sheets - Goin NOWHERE. Melvin wants 3 top prospects for him, way too much. Wells - I think we mite get Kip, but probably next season. He's arbitration eligible in 05 I think, so Pittsburgh will want to trade him since they ain't payin $10 mill for him. Hernandez - Expos won't trade him, signed a 3 year $21 mill deal a few weeks ago. Once they find a home, he'll stick around and anchor their rotation, we really should hav a made a move for him in the offseason. Other possible pitchers to go afta - Ted Lilly, Miguel Batista, Joe Kennedy, Steve Trachsel, Zach Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Wells - I think we mite get Kip, but probably next season. He's arbitration eligible in 05 I think, so Pittsburgh will want to trade him since they ain't payin $10 mill for him. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1713129 Kip avoided arbitration this year. They're not going to be looking to move him at all -- He won't command too much more than his current salary in each of the next two seasons, and theres still a possibility that they could lock him up long term on the cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I'd wonder if we could go afta mayb Meche, Moyer or Pineiro instead. Piniero? Yes. He lacks Freddy's fastball, although it's still good....and his secondary arsenal is filthy. He is also younger than Garcia and makes 4 Mill less. He is getting lip up now, so Seattle wouldn't ask for quite as much one would think. Not an ace, but Sox won't need an ace until late July, if not August when they would ostensibly be fine-tuning the club for the post-season battles - knock on wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I've been on the Joe Kennedy band wagon for a while now. I would love to have him in a sox uniform. It won't happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Piniero? Yes. Hell yes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I just think Pineiro would be a betta option than Garcia, not convinced Freddy's turned the corner just yet. Long term I think Pineiro would be a great addition to our rotation, and be AT LEAST a #2 starter for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I just think Pineiro would be a betta option than Garcia, not convinced Freddy's turned the corner just yet. Long term I think Pineiro would be a great addition to our rotation, and be AT LEAST a #2 starter for years to come. I absolutely love Joel but I just don't think seattle would trade him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Piniero is getting lip up now, so Seattle wouldn't ask for quite as much one would think. That's putting it lightly. His ERA is up around 6.00 and his WHIP was approaching 2.00 at one point. I had him on my fantasy team last year when he was putting up 5-0 months, and I drafted him this year as well. Him and Mike Mussina pretty much took all the fun out of fantasy baseball for yours truly. Well, that along with Mark Prior getting injured. And Garcia sucked so badly last year. People have a memory loss. I have "Catch A Bad One" playing in the background right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Found this on Garcia and Pineiro, "You can't be going worse than Seattle is. It's pathetic, just awful." RHP Freddy Garcia, a potential free agent, remains the leading candidate to be traded, but one scout notes, "Everyone wants (RHP Joel) Pineiro," noting Pineiro could bring more in return. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Found this on Garcia and Pineiro, "You can't be going worse than Seattle is. It's pathetic, just awful." RHP Freddy Garcia, a potential free agent, remains the leading candidate to be traded, but one scout notes, "Everyone wants (RHP Joel) Pineiro," noting Pineiro could bring more in return. . . . Interesting, I still say Danny Wright for Pineiro is a fair deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Just my two cents here: The Sox should find a way to get Wilson Alverez. Another move that could help bring back some of the old fans who used to support the team. I just think it would be great to have a homecoming and a win a World Series from it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 If Seattle is truly out of it by the All Star Break they might trade Garcia to the Sox for Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz and Andy Gonzalez. It would help Seattle improve their minor league system and give them help in the power, SP and 3b positions for 2005-6. Borchard may make it to the majors someday, but I think that Sweeney and Reed have a better chance to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 If Seattle is truly out of it by the All Star Break they might trade Garcia to the Sox for Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz and Andy Gonzalez. It would help Seattle improve their minor league system and give them help in the power, SP and 3b positions for 2005-6. Borchard may make it to the majors someday, but I think that Sweeney and Reed have a better chance to be successful. While I'm not ready to give up Borchard, he can definitely be trade bait and I would definitely be in favor of that trade you proposed. Here's the main problem with that proposal though would Reinsdorf be willing to add 6 million dollars of payroll?? I think seattle would have to pick up most of his salary for a deal like that to get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Mariners ain't gonna trade Piñeiro, unles they now he's hurt real bad and they can get top quality in return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Here's the main problem with that proposal though would Reinsdorf be willing to add 6 million dollars of payroll?? I think seattle would have to pick up most of his salary for a deal like that to get done. Reinsdorf would pick up $7 Million if the team was in contention. He picked up $$ last year when they needed to make an upgrade. Colon was offered more than $7 Million and he isn't as good as Garcia this year. (Yes, I realize that they would have had to trade Ordonez or Konerko if they re-signed Colon.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 If Seattle is truly out of it by the All Star Break they might trade Garcia to the Sox for Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz and Andy Gonzalez. It would help Seattle improve their minor league system and give them help in the power, SP and 3b positions for 2005-6. Borchard may make it to the majors someday, but I think that Sweeney and Reed have a better chance to be successful. Garcia is NOT worth 3 prospects. You over-value Garcia, and undervalue the Sox prospects. Maybe 2 prospects, MAYBE, but not three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I swear, the more I hear the name Garcia, the more I think that there are some undercover cubs fans on here. We need ground ball pitchers in Comiskey, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I swear, the more I hear the name Garcia, the more I think that there are some undercover cubs fans on here. Like the Sox couldn't use a pitcher with an ERA of 2.89 this year against Anaheim, Oakland, Texas, Detroit, Minnesota and Baltimore. Garcia is a strong #1 or #2 pitcher. 7.0 IP per start and 41Ks in 56IP and only 4 HRs given up this year. I fail to see the downside. We need ground ball pitchers in Comiskey, correct? PS it's US Cellular Field now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 4 HRs given up this year. That is a VERY misleading stat. He is playing in a very pitcher friendly park, and, if he were traded to the Sox, would be coming to a very hitter friendly park. His ERA could go from 2.50 to 4.50 in no time. I agree. I want a ground-ball pitcher. If Boston thinks they could use Freddy Garcia, and they are willing to give up Derek Lowe, that's the guy I want. Lowe is a stud and is a hell of a good GB pitcher. A 1-2-3 of Lowe, Buehrle, Loaiza could potentially do damage in the playoffs. I'd like Jason Schmidt too, however, that would cost quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Zito could be nice for the White Sox, or if we are willing to overpay, Mulder. A's are going to have to trade one of their pitchers, or lose one in the offseason. We can make a trade that is better than 2 first round picks to the A's, and put them in a better position this year. It may cost us some of our outfieldiers in the minors, but pitching is more important and harder to find than outfielders, and if we can get a pitcher for the long term, we would have a good 3 to build around (Garland, Buerhle, ...). SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 PS it's US Cellular Field now. Well, where I come from, it's called Comiskey. And here we go again with the Garcia propaganda. Once again, he's a fly ball pitcher who absolutely took a s*** last year in perhaps the friendliest pitchers' park in all of baseball (not just merely a "friendly pitchers park"). And when people speculate that it might have been due to injuries, well, that's just another reason not to acquire him, correct? Refer to posts by Cheat, Witesoxfan, Brando, DBAHO, etc, etc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Well, where I come from, it's called Comiskey Or 'US Cominskullar'.....as per HYM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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