Pitchers the Sox Should Acquire

[DBAHO]

That is a VERY misleading stat.

 

He is playing in a very pitcher friendly park, and, if he were traded to the Sox, would be coming to a very hitter friendly park.

 

His ERA could go from 2.50 to 4.50 in no time.

 

I agree.  I want a ground-ball pitcher.  If Boston thinks they could use Freddy Garcia, and they are willing to give up Derek Lowe, that's the guy I want.  Lowe is a stud and is a hell of a good GB pitcher.  A 1-2-3 of Lowe, Buehrle, Loaiza could potentially do damage in the playoffs.

 

I'd like Jason Schmidt too, however, that would cost quite a bit.

Lowe wants the big bucks in free agency, Scott Boras thinks he can get it for him 2. If we get him it'll only be for half a season and no more.

[beck72]

And here we go again with the Garcia propaganda.  Once again, he's a fly ball pitcher who absolutely took a s*** last year in perhaps the friendliest pitchers' park in all of baseball (not just merely a "friendly pitchers park").  And when people speculate that it might have been due to injuries, well, that's just another reason not to acquire him, correct? 

 

Refer to posts by Cheat, Witesoxfan, Brando, DBAHO, etc, etc, etc.

By your logic, the sox should also forget about acquiring CC Sabathia, Zito, Vazquez, Moyer, Radke, Moyer and Lilly, because they all have higher FB/ GB ratios than Garcia, throughout their careers and this year. And Sidney Ponson would be a much better acquisition, due to his 1.73 ratio.

 

Garcia is not an extreme FB pitcher. For his career his is 1.22. Even if he were a FB pitcher, the stats don;t tell the whole story. Is he getting pop ups or warning track outs? Looking at 8 starts doesn't tell the whole story. If he were, and LH, then he might struggle, as USCF is particularly friendly to RH power hitters.

 

The Sox need a pitcher who can get strikeouts, go deep into games, has playoff experience, and can keep the Sox in games. The Sox need a solid pitcher who can hit his spots, keep the ball in the park, and shut down an opponent when he's on. Garcia can probably do that, regardless of how he gets his outs.

 

Propaganda? Don't think so. Just tossing out names of players who could be and are available. Do you have other realistic names that would be better suited for the Sox?

 

And Derek Lowe doesn't qualify.

[WSox30]

I dont want Lowe. He's an emotional baby and isn't that consistent. I say we wait a little longer and wait for some teams to give up and then get their ace or 2 starter. Personally at this poiint, I wouldn't mind getting a pitcher for just this year. I wanna win! Maybe someone like Zito because i thnk Beane was said hes sticking with Mulder/Hudson when contracts come around or go with maybe someone from tampa.

[beck72]

With most contending teams, they won't trade any of their top pitchers [1-3]. Even by the deadline, most teams will still be in contention. So right off you can forget about anyone from Ana, Oak, NYY, Bos, Balt, Tex [prob]. and Minn.

 

Most other non-contending teams only have one or two decent starters and will be reluctant to trade them away. [Roy Holliday, Sabathia

 

I'm reluctant to trade for a NL SP because of the adjustments they have to make. I don't want a SP having to think too much during aug. and Sept. I want them to just throw and get outs. [unless its a top veteran. But then they come with their own baggage-like Johnson and his $34 mill contract, no-trade clauses, etc]

[hammerhead johnson]

By your logic, the sox should also forget about acquiring CC Sabathia, Zito, Vazquez, Moyer, Radke, Moyer and Lilly, because they all have higher FB/ GB ratios than Garcia, throughout their careers and this year. And Sidney Ponson would be a much better acquisition, due to his 1.73 ratio.

 

Garcia is not an extreme FB pitcher. For his career his is 1.22. Even if he were a FB pitcher, the stats don;t tell the whole story. Is he getting pop ups or warning track outs? Looking at 8 starts doesn't tell the whole story. If he were, and LH, then he might struggle, as USCF is particularly friendly to RH power hitters.

 

The Sox need a pitcher who can get strikeouts, go deep into games, has playoff experience, and can keep the Sox in games. The Sox need a solid pitcher who can hit his spots, keep the ball in the park, and shut down an opponent when he's on. Garcia can probably do that, regardless of how he gets his outs.

 

Propaganda? Don't think so. Just tossing out names of players who could be and are available. Do you have other realistic names that would be better suited for the Sox?

 

And Derek Lowe doesn't qualify.

Freddy Garcia

When Garcia is on, there are few pitchers in the majors who are better. But he runs hot and cold and is too emotional at times. Garcia doesn't strike out as many as he should and surrendered more home runs in 2003 (31) than he should, especially with half his starts coming at pitcher-friendly Safeco Field. BOTTOM LINE: Plenty of talent, but plenty of risk. Let someone else take the gamble.

(Sporting News excerpt)

 

Freddy Garcia's 2003 Season

It was one of the most inconsistent seasons by a pitcher in recent memory. Freddy Garcia, counted on to be the ace of the Mariners' staff, pitched like an ace for weeks at a time, but also went through stretches where he got hammered regularly. He bounced back and forth between the two extremes so often that it was impossible to know what to expect from him on any given day. Understandably, the situation produced frustration all around, not the least of which from Garcia himself, whose maturity had been questioned in the past.

(ESPN excerpt)

 

Freddy's 2003 Season continued

It looks like Freddy's heading for his worst season as a pro. His ERA, walks, and homers are up and his strikeouts are down -- all bad signs. To many pundits, it seems as if this season is just a continuation of Garcia's poor second half last year. Derek Zumsteg, for instances, argues that Garcia is struggling due to a poor work ethic and an injury that occured sometime last season (triggering the collapse).

 

Zumsteg knows a lot more about the Mariners than I do, but I don't really buy either of his arguments. If Garcia is such a "partier" as Zumsteg claims, why did it just begin to affect him the second half of last year? He was able to succeed for 3.5 seasons with this alleged kind of lifestyle, yet he all the sudden begins to suffer from it? David Wells sure seems to be thriving and he's clearly in worse physical shape than Freddy and is a huge partier. Hell, if drinking and doing drugs causes struggles like Garcia's, every athlete in the world is due for a big collapse.

 

A much more plausible explanation is that Garcia is nursing an injury. At least this scenario explains why Freddy began to fade in the second half last year. I'm still not buying it, however, as from what I've seen of his starts this year, Garcia has been able to dial it up into the mid-90s. Common sense would tell us that a labrum tear would hamper his ability to throw the ball that fast. The "hidden injury" theory also fails to explain how Garcia has turned in excellent performances during his bad streak.

 

While the purported lack of preparation/focus may be affecting Garcia's game, I think the two main culprits behind his struggles this year are competition and lefties.

 

So far this season, Freddy has faced Oakland twice, Texas twice, Cleveland twice, New York once, Chicago once, and Detroit once. Coming into his last two starts (New York and Cleveland), Garcia had a 3.83 ERA. That 3.83 ERA came in 4 games against good offenses (Oakland and Texas), 2 games against mediocre offenses (Chicago and Cleveland) and 1 game against a terrible offense (Detroit). Not too shabby, IMHO. He followed this decent run (3-3, 3.83) with two brutal games against New York and Cleveland that dropped him to 3-5 and shot his ERA up to 5.47. He's pitched 4 bad games this year, one each against Oakland, Texas, New York, and Cleveland. I think it's fair to give him a pass here, as these are some of the best offenses in baseball. Yes, he's going to need to pitch better against solid competition, with the talent in the West and the unbalanced schedule, but we shouldn't just give up on a guy with Garcia's talent this early in the season.

 

The second big problem I see with Garcia is the fact that lefties have blitzed him this year at a .298/.377/.526 (.903 OPS) clip. This is troubling, of course, but looking at ESPN's three year splits (00-02), we can see that lefties haven't given Garcia any more trouble (.749 OPS) than they have Jeff Weaver (.758), Tim Hudson (.728), or Joel Pineiro (.744). Even last year, when Garcia collapsed in the second half, lefties only had a .732 OPS against him. Righties managed a .724 OPS against him last season, suggesting that his struggles weren't merely the result of lefties clobbering him.

 

The Mariner coaching staff obviously realizes Freddy is having trouble getting lefties out, since they moved his planned Tuesday start to Wednesday. Pitching coach Bryan Price said the move was made "in order to fine-tune some mechanical changes." MLB reports that Garcia has moved "to the third base side of the pitching rubber and also has been working on getting more consistent arm action" and I've also heard/seen/read that he might be working on a cut fastball in order to get lefties out.

(battery.blogspot excerpt)

 

What happened in 2002?

Issues ranging from concentration to composure helped contribute to his decline after the All-Star break in 2002, when he went 5-5 wth a plus 5 ERA. Garcia hasn't exactly turned the corner and left all his struggles behind.

(seattle newspaper excerpt, "the olympian")

 

What Freddy Garcia Has To Say About It

"Bad pitch, too high. It made me mad." -Freddy Garcia

(marinermusings excerpt)

 

What Brandofan Has To Say About It

"The guy is just a lazy, cocaine-dabbling asshole."

 

Brando later said that the cocaine part is probably bulls***, though.

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

I was just reading six pages of this, and I am wondering why no one has mentioned the Angels as trade partners? With Glaus out for the year, Erstad out, Anderson out, they definitely need hitting and they have pitching to give up, though I don't want Sele.

[beck72]

There's risk/ reward involved in acquiring any pitcher. I think Garcia provides the Sox with the lowest risk/ highest reward of the names being bandied about. Esp. as his 2004 numbers [bAA, OBP, OPS, Hr's allowed] fall in line with his 2001 and before numbers.

 

I'm also realistic knowing Sox mgmt won't acquire the big contracts of old pitchers [Johnson, Leiter, Glavine-they're liable to get injured and the Sox would get stuck with a huge contract]. The Sox would be better off getting a 1 year guy to win games, with the choice to resign the guy or not.

 

In addition, Garcia would seem to be a good fit with the Sox--salary wise, clubhouse wise, age wise, culture wise etc. Guillen knows him, his work ethic, health, etc. If Ozzie believes in the guy and tells KW he's a good guy to go after, that's good enough for me. If Garcia winds up on the south side, then we'll all know the answer. The health, personal side of a player [too emotional, could be hurt] is mostly speculation. Without hard and fast information, I'm leery of those reports.

 

Few true #1's or #2's are out there ready for trade now. [Plenty of #5's though] And very few will be available nearer the trade deadline.

[hammerhead johnson]

If Garcia winds up on the south side, then we'll all know the answer. The health, personal side of a player [too emotional, could be hurt] is mostly speculation. Without hard and fast information, I'm leery of those reports.

Well, I never hang my hat on anything that is isolated, but when you read the same stuff over and over and over again from a bunch of different sources, you'd have to assume that there's some truth hidden in there somewhere.

 

I said earlier in the thread that Glavine is my favorite option. And of course, I turn on the televison later on that evening and I see that he threw a 1 hitter?

 

And now he's 6-2 with a 2.13 ERA? He's no longer the best kept secret. What's amazing is that he's doing all of this with baseball's version of the Los Angeles Clippers, where you suck no matter how much talent you have.

 

But if we were to somehow land him in July, he'd have about 5 million left on his salary for the rest of the year, and he'd be guaranteed about 11 million in 2005. Seeing as though we'll have Koch, Maggs, and others off the books next year, I'd absolutely love to have him for a full season at 11 million. The guy can just flat out pitch. And his clubhouse presence? Priceless.

[beck72]

I said earlier in the thread that Glavine is my favorite option.  And of course, I turn on the televison later on that evening and I see that he threw a 1 hitter? 

 

And now he's 6-2 with a 2.13 ERA?  He's no longer the best kept secret.  What's amazing is that he's doing all of this with baseball's version of the Los Angeles Clippers, where you suck no matter how much talent you have.

 

But if we were to somehow land him in July, he'd have about 5 million left on his salary for the rest of the year, and he'd be guaranteed about 11 million in 2005.  Seeing as though we'll have Koch, Maggs, and others off the books next year, I'd absolutely love to have him for a full season at 11 million.  The guy can just flat out pitch.  And his clubhouse presence?  Priceless.

The Mets won't be trading Glavine. They'll be buyers not sellers come July. The East is wide open and they'll hang around long enough to keep him.

 

I'm going by who is available now, and who is likely to be available.

[hammerhead johnson]

The Mets won't be trading Glavine. They'll be buyers not sellers come July. The East is wide open and they'll hang around long enough to keep him.

 

I'm going by who is available now, and who is likely to be available.

I think that they'll fall apart though, as usual. The Marlins and the Phillies are so much better than they are (even if the Phillies have been playing like s*** thus far).

[YASNY]

Check the current NL East standings.

[hammerhead johnson]

Check the current NL East standings. 

Pretty wide open right now, but the Marlins and Phillies will break away from the rest of the pack when the teams in that division start playing one another. The Phillies are 14-5 against the NL West, and yet, they're only 5-7 within their own division at the current time. That's going to change in a hurry. And the Marlins are the Marlins. Just a s***load of talent that can not be stopped. I look at the Mets and I see a bunch of bad investments.

[YASNY]

the Phillies have been playing like s*** thus far

 

I was referring to this.

 

However, I do agree with your most recent post.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Is Jose Paniagua available?

 

I think it's gonna be a lower profile guy than the Glavines and Garcias. More like a Traschel, Paul Abbott, Brian Anderson, somebody second rate but still a veteran that can somehow improve on our illustrious 5th starter role over the last two years.

[hammerhead johnson]

I was referring to this.

 

However, I do agree with your most recent post.

Well, they're 7-3 in their last 10, so they've been playing up to their capabilities as of late. Still though, a team with world series aspirations with that kind of April? That's why I made that statement.

[beck72]

The Sox seem to like having balance in their rotation [different looks, RH, LH, different styles] What's missing in the rotation is a RHP who can throw some heat, ala Colon.

 

Glavine [even if available, unlikely because with a .500 Mets record, with guys out and now coming back, they'll still think they can get to a world series] would give the Sox three, LH finesse pitchers.

 

Even if the Sox can't get a #1, 2 or 3 now, [difficult at best to pull something like this off] they might be better off getting a serviceable #5 veteran now to give some innings. But even those guys will come with a decent price tag in terms of talent.

 

Then in July a top of the rotation guy might become available.

[hammerhead johnson]

Is Jose Paniagua available?

 

I think it's gonna be a lower profile guy than the Glavines and Garcias. More like a Traschel, Paul Abbott, Brian Anderson, somebody second rate but still a veteran that can somehow improve on our illustrious 5th starter role over the last two years.

Yeah, you're probably right. It'll be some stroke like Paul Abbott.

 

KW will be like "I know his ERA is like 6.50 or whatever, but god damn, did you see what he did to the Sox in April? Let's get him."

[hammerhead johnson]

Glavine would give the Sox three, LH finesse pitchers.

If we got Glavine, here's how I'd set up the rotation:

 

1. Glavine

2. Loaiza

3. Buehrle

4. Garland

5. Schoeneweis

 

I can live with three finesse left handers at the 1, 3, and 5 slots.

 

But you're right. We lack that power pitcher. That's why I'm jealous of that other baseball team in Chicago.

[hammerhead johnson]

And left handed finesse pitchers is what it's all about against the Spankees, or Yankmees, or capitalist pigs, or whatever people are calling them nowadays.

[hammerhead johnson]

And just one more point about the Phillies:

 

They didn't have a winning record until May 9 (15-14).

 

Records:

 

APRIL 12: 1-6

APRIL 25: 7-10

MAY 6: 12-14

 

That what I'd refer to as "playing like s***" if we're talking about the talent on that team, which is just mind-boggling.

[beck72]

Keep in mind, Neal Cotts would likely come into spring training in 2005 with the best shot to make the rotation.

 

Whoever is acquired likely won't be around for 2005. [Only if he's an upgrade over Loaiza, and throws from the right side.]

[YASNY]

And just one more point about the Phillies:

 

They didn't have a winning record until May 9 (15-14). 

 

Records:

 

APRIL 12: 1-6

APRIL 25: 7-10

MAY 6: 12-14

 

That what I'd refer to as "playing like s***" if we're talking about the talent on that team, which is just mind-boggling.

You've made your point. I was just referring to the fact that happen to be in first place at the moment.

[hammerhead johnson]

You've made your point.  I was just referring to the fact that happen to be in first place at the moment.

Which is where they belong, of course.

[YASNY]

Keep in mind, Neal Cotts would likely come into spring training in 2005 with the best shot to make the rotation.

 

Whoever is acquired likely won't be around for 2005. [Only if he's an upgrade over Loaiza, and throws from the right side.]

Loiaza may not be around in 2005. That is something else KW has to take into consideration when making a deal. If we get a FA eligible guy our rotation could be Buehrle, Garland, Schoenewies, Rauch, Cotts next year. With Diaz, Munoz or Adkins as possibilities.

[knightni]

http://www.macon.com/mld/thestate/sports/b...all/7773826.htm

 

 

Freddy Garcia ruptured both eardrums late 2002 and spent all of 2003 playing in pain.

 

He had surgery in the off season and seems to be pitching better because of it.

 

The article says that "Team officials don't believe there was any link between Garcia's struggles and his ear problems.", but I have had ruptured ear drums and they hurt like hell.

 

So, who knows...