baggio202 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Baggio - Yes, i'm new here. Been a sox fan all my life...Heather led me to this site (i know here from blackhawkzone.com, huge hawks fan too). I'm on a college budget, so i make it out to a decent amount of games each year, last year i was at 15, i'm hoping to improve upon that. It'd be nice to meet up with some people at US Cellular that can actually talk some baseball and stuff. Thanks for the welcome. youll be able to meet up with us during the season...we all get together at some point or another...hope you enjoy it here..great group of people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I enjoy Hawk and DJ, but I liked Hawk and Wimpy much more. The former Sox broadcaster I really liked to listen to, though, was Don Drysdale. Now that man knew his stuff. I always was wishing they'd take him out of the booth and make him the pitching coach. Then the Sox pitchers would know how to dust those plate crowding guys. DD would never have put up with that. Hawk and Whimpy were great. I heard them growing up and I was so pissed when they left. I thought DJ sucked at first, but now I've gotten used to them two and think they are pretty good. Steve Stone is damn good too. Chip is an idiot, but Stoney is one of the sharpest guys out there when it comes to baseball, and its why I've always felt he'd make an excellent pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Chip is an idiot, but Stoney is one of the sharpest guys out there when it comes to baseball, and its why I've always felt he'd make an excellent pitching coach. The bottomline is, he is a BORING and CRANKY (not "old-fashioned" fella from the South like Hawk; I mean real bitter) person and that's why he is a mediocre announcer at best, IMO. Whereas Hawk is funny AND knowledgeable and just has a great time out there in his older (I bet Hawk has more fun at 65 than many people at 35) age. The reason wh he treats DJ like a "4-year-old" is because the latter sometimes BEHAVES like one; for a first-time major sports announcer, DJ did surprisingly little homework, which is fine when you are Bob Costas with photographic memory and decades worth of passionate observation, but when you are a young retiring player (35 was he?), it won't get it done. I am surprised Hawk didn't snap at ALL when DJ deviated from planned commentary and ad-libbed it...He IS better now though, I agree. In fact, some of the resulting "bloopers" are extremely funny and spontaneous as I already mentioned. I can't believe noone remembers the "boner" commernt. That's HOF broadcasting right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I love Hawk and like DJ I loved Hawk and Wimpy. But I do like Hawk and DJ. Hawk is so easy to listen to in my opinion. I like the games you can tell they are in bad moods early in a 162 game season and they sort of rag on each other a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Steve Stone is amazing. I really don't mind Chip because of his enthusiasm and just overall presentation of the game. I don't think he deserves the bashing he usuall gets. However, if you want a terrible color man, look to his right...that'd be Joe Carter. Wow was he terrible. I mean, how good can you expect Chip to be with a dolt sitting next to him? No help whatsoever. However, the best baseball crew in the city is easily Pat Hughes and Ron Santo. Pat Hughes is just a God on the radio, and this is coming from a Sox fan. I love listening to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I think Bags and I killed that thread be careful of that site - it can be fun at times but it can sure be filled with crazed loons You ain't kidding. I rarely go there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 While I think Hawk and DJ..... hell, Hawk and anybody are better than the Chipster and Joe Carter, I have been practically ambivalent towards Hawk since the White Flag trade. When Hawk went on TV to announce that night's game and defended the trade, saying it was good for the White Sox in the long run despite the White Sox only being 3 games behind Cleveland, Hawk revealed himself to be one of two things..... 1.) a "homer" or 2.) JR's mouthpiece on TV and most of us don't even realize it. How any ex-baseball player could defend surrender is still a puzzle to me. However, Hawk has become an institution on Chicago's Southside. Wimpy was Hawk's best sidekick. DJ has improved but still has a long way to go. Thank God I can still remember Harry and Jimmy. Speaking of Harry, it was 5 years ago this past Tuesday that Harry Carey passed away. I doubt many of you were able to see it, but on Chicago's public television station, Channel 11, their local news show, "Chicago Tonight ", ran a tribute piece on Harry commemorating his years in Chicago announcing Sox and Cubs baseball. The best part of the tribute was that not one, NOT ONE, moment was shown from Wrigley Field. The tribute was 100% Harry and the fans and players of Chicago's Southside! A 5 minute timecapsule that I wish alot of the younger Sox fans that can't remember Harry Carey and how he sounded with the Sox could have heard and viewed. As the show ran it's end credits, Harry singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame " and "root, root, root(ing) for the WHITE SOX still brings a smile to my face. Many cub fans think he invented his 7th inning stretch routine in Wrigley Field. Harry and Jimmy were the best broadcast team the Sox ever had, by far. Letting Harry go to the North Side was a huge and terrible mistake. One of many reasons I am not big on the Sox regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Harry went north because he wanted to. JR and Einhorn would have gladly re-signed him, he was not let go, he planned and orchestrated his way to the northside because he could get more money and greater exposure on WGN than he could on the Sox cable network which was the plan at the time. I loved Harry as much as anyone and in my min d when I think of the Sox bewinbg broadcast I still hear Harry's voice - but he left us for his own reasons, $$ and marketing, and that is the way it was. The Cubs threw a big $$ contract at Nancy Faust at the same time. She however was loyal to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hawk revealed himself to be one of two things..... 1.) a "homer" or 2.) JR's mouthpiece on TV and most of us don't even realize it. How any ex-baseball player could defend surrender is still a puzzle to me. Listen, season-ending trades suck sometimes and fans do suffer, but, common, if you think Danny Darwin-led team was going to catch the Indians powerhouse (that eventually was 2 outs away from winning the friggin' championshiop!) that year, I have a nice bridge...Hawk is a FRANCHISE announcer, but so what? He is a funny and insighful commentator (I don't think anyone who praised Steve Stone can contest that; he may not have the academic vocabulary down, but this aint academia-land), so what else do you want? For him to take JR to task? Even our GM's can't do that, FCOL. I admit I used to dislike Hawk in the beginning 'cause in his tone and demeanor he sounded "different"--like a coach rather than a commentator. Now I like him for precisely the reasons I didn't before. Facts of WF Trade: -Barcelo: before injuries an amazing , Rauch-esque prospect .............................. -Foulke: self-explanatory. Might be a HOF player in 8-10 years if he improves his slider. ...............................-Howry: before injury, one of the 10 best relievers in the game. ...............................-Caruso: SS hit .306, stole 25 bases and finished 3rd in a rookie of the year voting; well-documented horrible work ethic and drug intake hampered his progress long before he even reached the bigs. Could have been Erstad Lite with better speed. Shame. (-Ken Vining: very good AAA pitcher who pitched in the bigs -Gary Majewski: good chance he makes the bigs someday.) Darwin, Ozzie Guillen and Alvarez had done nothing since they left the Sox and Fernanadez was done by 1998. And those pitchers were making a pretty buck, too. Also, no way Sox reach playoffs in 2000 without Foulke, Howry and Barcelo, IMO. ETA: Ron Santo over Joh Rooney as the best radio announcer? I. Don't.Think.So. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Jason, agree with you on Stone. To those talking about Hawk and the White lag trade: maybe the trade made sense to him from the get-go. After all Hawk was the worst GM we ever had! But I love him as an announcer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hawk revealed himself to be one of two things..... 1.) a "homer" or 2.) JR's mouthpiece on TV and most of us don't even realize it. How any ex-baseball player could defend surrender is still a puzzle to me. Listen, season-ending trades suck sometimes and fans do suffer, but, common, if you think Danny Darwin-led team was going to catch the Indians powerhouse (that eventually was 2 outs away from winning the friggin' championshiop!) that year, I have a nice bridge...Hawk is a FRANCHISE announcer, but so what? He is a funny and insighful commentator (I don't think anyone who praised Steve Stone can contest that; he may not have the academic vocabulary down, but this aint academia-land), so what else do you want? For him to take JR to task? Even our GM's can't do that, FCOL. the indian powerhouse that year that came within 2 outs of the world series won 86 games..they only had two pitcher win more than 10 games and out of their starting 5 eras's ranged from 4.28 to 5.65....that was no powerhouse... had we traded at that deadline for help instead of dumping..we could have easily caught the indians...plus..its a PR disaster to give up only 3 games out of 1st....after the sox, no team in baseball will ever do that a..no matter how hopeless they feel the situation is...hell, teams 8 -10 games back are trading to improve..and look at st louis in '01...8 games back..trade for woody williams (who they still have) and he catches fire and leads them to the playoffs...you never know if we would have traded for someone to help that team if he would have been our woody williams... plus the indians winning only 86 games but going to the series only emphasizes how weak the AL was that year and how good are chances were if we just got in it... plus,plus...who do have left from the white flag trade 6 years later..all those prospects??..no one..and what did we accomplish with them when we had them??..one division title and a 3 and out in the playoffs worst move for the sox since the players in '19 threw the series... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmr31 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hey guys! I didnt even know about this sight. To be honest, i think hawk and DJ suck, but hey, theyre ours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 very good insight and analysis, have to agree with you all the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 and look at st louis in '01...8 games back..trade for woody williams (who they still have) and he catches fire and leads them to the playoffs...you never know if we would have traded for someone to help that team if he would have been our woody williams... It did help though that the sCrUBS did what they do best that year and choked down the stretch . But your point is well taken Baggs. Seems like I can always count on you to back me up when I am away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Welcome BMR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hey guys! I didnt even know about this sight. To be honest, i think hawk and DJ suck, but hey, theyre ours... did you get kicked out of WSI again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 ....that was no powerhouse... So what did you think of the Sox, then? You know, The Little UNDER .500 Team That Could... worst move for the sox since the players in '19 threw the series... That statement is so rediculous, I am not even going to dignify it with a reply. Getting 4 great prospects that started producing almost immediately (even the disasterously unlucky Barcelo was stellar in 2000) for 5 overpaid vets is every GM's dream; the fact that the Sox only had "one divisional title" had more to do with this organization's overall ineptitude and cheapness, with the lack of fans (we averaged half a stadium BEFORE the WFT), torrent of injuries in 2001 and the simple fact that you can't possibly expect WS appearances every year when you are rebuilding and your payroll is under 45 mill... NOT with that particular trade's merits. If you had seen a single game that year, you'd know that Sox had virtually NO chance and that the number 3 (remember we trailed the Tribe by only 3 games in late July 2001, too...lol) is GROSSELY misleading. Cleveland may not have had the HOF pitching, but they scored near 1000 runs that year, and OUR pitching was NOTHING to write home about either. I guess I can't PROVE to you with 100% certainty that Sox weren't going to make it, but I feel highly positive that they wouldn't. It's specualtion at this point. And Yankees, Oriols and Marlins were DAMN good teams BTW. Wright, Nagy and Hershiser outstanding and clutch during playoffs last time I recall, to say nothign of their line-up and the fact that Tribe was making their SECOND straight WS appearance, and would run away witha division in the next 3 out of 4 years. We dumped 10's of millions (if you look beyond '97) of OLD and severely DECLINGING and OVERRATED players if anything else. The Rebuilding (you know, the one that broughts us Maggs, Lee, Jimenez, Olivo, Buehrle, Wells, Garland, Wright, Rauch, Valentin, Crede, Rowand, Konerko, Marte and Burhle, not to mention Barcelo, Foulke, Howry and even Caruso) phase of which Sox were./are enjoying the fuits in 2000, 01, 02 and, more importantly NOW, might not have taken place AT ALL were Darwin, Alvarez, Guilen, Hernandez and Fernandez were allowed to stay for 98-99 seasons, IMO. Ventura and Belle would have still left in 98 and we'd be stuck with Norton, Snopek, Fabregas and Co. Romanticizing the "WFT tragedy"and glossing over the franchise disarray of the late 90's is a little short-sighted or disingenuous. End of rant. OT: Hey, I got kicked out of WSI in 01', too. Also ostensibly for arguing with Randar and FWC bmr31 is an obnoxious ignoramus, though, and I'd take rangar's, kermit's or idseer's side anytime when he/she is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hawk revealed himself to be one of two things..... 1.) a "homer" or 2.) JR's mouthpiece on TV and most of us don't even realize it. How any ex-baseball player could defend surrender is still a puzzle to me. Listen, season-ending trades suck sometimes and fans do suffer, but, common, if you think Danny Darwin-led team was going to catch the Indians powerhouse (that eventually was 2 outs away from winning the friggin' championshiop!) that year, I have a nice bridge...Hawk is a FRANCHISE announcer, but so what? He is a funny and insighful commentator (I don't think anyone who praised Steve Stone can contest that; he may not have the academic vocabulary down, but this aint academia-land), so what else do you want? For him to take JR to task? Even our GM's can't do that, FCOL. the indian powerhouse that year that came within 2 outs of the world series won 86 games..they only had two pitcher win more than 10 games and out of their starting 5 eras's ranged from 4.28 to 5.65....that was no powerhouse... had we traded at that deadline for help instead of dumping..we could have easily caught the indians...plus..its a PR disaster to give up only 3 games out of 1st....after the sox, no team in baseball will ever do that a..no matter how hopeless they feel the situation is...hell, teams 8 -10 games back are trading to improve..and look at st louis in '01...8 games back..trade for woody williams (who they still have) and he catches fire and leads them to the playoffs...you never know if we would have traded for someone to help that team if he would have been our woody williams... plus the indians winning only 86 games but going to the series only emphasizes how weak the AL was that year and how good are chances were if we just got in it... plus,plus...who do have left from the white flag trade 6 years later..all those prospects??..no one..and what did we accomplish with them when we had them??..one division title and a 3 and out in the playoffs worst move for the sox since the players in '19 threw the series... Baggs, I remember the day we made that trade. I had tickets to the Angels Sox game that day. I was almost in tears - tears of anger. I went with my dad and two friends. I couldn't believe what had happened. On that day I swore that I would never support the White Sox again. That was the only game I have ever rooted against the Sox. The next day I calmed down a bit, but I never understood why they made that trade. They freaking gave up. I was only 11 or 12 at the time so I didn't really understand the idea of prospects but I knew what they were. I remember the tv analysts saying the Sox got absolutely nothing and that it was a shocker. I was so freaking pissed off at that deal. I ended up sitting behind Robin Ventura's dad and talking to him, pretty cool guy. I think Robin had just came back like the week before after that horrible injury. The only day in my life I wasn't a Sox fan. I hated JR for that, but since then I've learned a lot more. Looking back, we didn't give up that much and got some really good arms, but at that time I was growing into becoming a diehard fan, although I've basically been diehard since I was 6, reading the sports page everyday and watching the games when I saw them on tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I love listening to Hawk and DJ (and Wimpy more so back in the day) call a Sox game. I live out in California, so I only get to see the Sox when they're on either WGN, ESPN (very rarely), or when they play a local team like the Angels (and this year, the Dodgers ). So all total, that's like 30-35 games a year. I love their insight into certain aspects of the game. Their stories are great too. And of course, I like that they're huge Sox fans and aren't afraid to show it. But, what I think a lot of people who say they're "homers" fail to notice and/or acknowledge is that when the Sox do something stupid or wrong, they are the first ones to say so. If someone makes a baserunning mistake, they tell the fans. If an ump makes a legit wrong call one way or the other, they'll say so (by either saying "Thank you" or "Where was that pitch?"). Overall, they make watching a Sox game all the more enjoyable, and I hope they're around for many more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I will echgo your description of the broadcasts - Hawk and DJ are very fair announcers. They pull for the Sox but are very balanced in their reporting, which si the best of all worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I love listening to Hawk and DJ (and Wimpy more so back in the day) call a Sox game. I live out in California, so I only get to see the Sox when they're on either WGN, ESPN (very rarely), or when they play a local team like the Angels (and this year, the Dodgers ). So all total, that's like 30-35 games a year. I love their insight into certain aspects of the game. Their stories are great too. And of course, I like that they're huge Sox fans and aren't afraid to show it. But, what I think a lot of people who say they're "homers" fail to notice and/or acknowledge is that when the Sox do something stupid or wrong, they are the first ones to say so. If someone makes a baserunning mistake, they tell the fans. If an ump makes a legit wrong call one way or the other, they'll say so (by either saying "Thank you" or "Where was that pitch?"). Overall, they make watching a Sox game all the more enjoyable, and I hope they're around for many more years. There are going to be a ton of us at the Angels and Dodger games rooting for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Hey guys! I didnt even know about this sight. To be honest, i think hawk and DJ suck, but hey, theyre ours... Welcome Aboard BMR. If it were up to you who would you like to see in the booth? I wish I could of seen Jimmy and Harry, but I think they left when I was born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I guess I can't PROVE to you with 100% certainty that Sox weren't going to make it, but I feel highly positive that they wouldn't. It's specualtion at this point. This can be said for every season since '59 with the exceptions of '83, '93, '94 (before the strike), and '00..... at least during my lifetime. Your reasoning here makes no sense. You are, in effect, saying that we should have "white-flagged" every season with the exception of those previously mentioned. After all, there was no chance that we'd be able to make it to the WS those other years. 162 baseball games a year are played by each team in baseball because nothing is certain. Anything can happen. The "WFT" isn't viewed as a sad day for MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL by sportswriters for nothing. The White Sox would have been better off just forfeiting the remaining games in '97 instead of s***ting on the fans (many of which still haven't returned to Comiskey/USCF) and the players left remaining on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Hey guys! I didnt even know about this sight. To be honest, i think hawk and DJ suck, but hey, theyre ours... O s***! The man, the legend, theeeeeeeee BMR has found us. lol welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Hey guys! I didnt even know about this sight. To be honest, i think hawk and DJ suck, but hey, theyre ours... O s***! The man, the legend, theeeeeeeee BMR has found us. lol welcome! You're the only legend around here In your own warped mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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