Chisoxfn Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 also KW shouldnt trade away players at the deadline (especially trades like durham for adkins)he thinks he cant resign..let them go and take the sandwich pick..thats how billy beane operates on a budget like our or less and still keeps oakland very competitive...he gets 2 or 3 first round or sandwich picks every year...that pays off after awhile... My thoughts exactly(UNLESS it is a player like Lofton that we are trading and we would be getting two pretty good arms in return). It wouldn't hurt getting a good defensive catcher that is coming out of college....give him 2-3 years, and he would be able to be up. Also in that round we could be getting a very, very good player with raw talent. And every once in a while, you'll get lucky and get a 38th round draft pick and he turns out to be your ace. Damn! Why weren't you guys here when that trade was made? Everyone ripped on me saying that we'd have gotten nothing for Ray if we didn't trade him. I was saying we'd be better off with the pick instead of a 6.+ ERA pitcher in Adkins. i was here right with ya ripping on that trade..for about 2 days..then i got so pissed off at the sox i quit watching the rest of the season...just couldnt take KW's incompetence anymore I do remember that. I also remember Baggs and I being the most vocal when it came to the Ritchie deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 We ARE numbers 22...but who cares! A couple of good drafts and couple of A-ers (say, Honel, Webster, Cotts and Ring) making unexpected noise later and we are back in the top 3. My concern is the BIG club youngsters (i.e. Garland, Wright, Rauch, Crede, Jimenez, Harris, Rowand, Olivo, Borchard, Marte and even Lee and Konerko to a lesser extent)- if they can keep maturing and building on their already-intriguing skills, then we WON'T need to have 5 minor-league champtionship teams and enourmous depth across our farm system as there only a few roster spots abailable to youngsters anyway; Maggs is the only one whose spot I am worried about past 2004...provided JR keeps expanding the budget as we are (hopefully) start racking up pennants. Seriously, I only care about Diaz, Valenzula, Fernandez, Almonte, Munoz, Miles, Webster, Ring, Honel, Malone, Ulacia, Stumm, Barcelo and maybe a few others like fan favorite Bullard or West, Gonzalez, Rogowski, etc. THAT'S it. The rest can be taken care of with successful DRAFTING/minor trades IMO. No need to lose your sleep over it...unless you are a AA or AAA manager, that is I say f*ck the "depth" and "needs" (and Baseball Prospectus Alert Amercia's with them!) and whatever, and start picking the players with highest ceiling no matter how raw. "Defensive catchers" and "solid outfielders/arms" don't make WS-caliber teams. No- Frank Thomases, Pedro Martinezes and Magglio Ordonez's do. What good are 15 solid 4-5th spot-type pitchers sitting between AA and AAA if you don't have 1-2-3 inning-eating starters (liek Mulder-Zito-Hudson or Priot-Wood-Clement) that will bring you to the promised land? What good is having 4 infielders rated within TOP 100 if none of them can be as good as Soriano or Tejada? Granted, Sox have had a remarkably efficient farm system in the last decade or so (Thomas, Ventura, healthy Fernandez, Alvarez, healthy Bere, healthy Baldwin, McDowell, Lee, Maggs, Olivo, Borchard, Rauch, Wells, Fogg, Garland, Buerhle, Rowand, Malone, Diaz, Wright, Webster, Honel, Barcelo, Crede, Durham, Valenzula, Valentine, Kane, Almonte, Munoz, Stumm, etc are all either All-Stars, possible AS's or just solid ML starting material...amazing really), but it takes BOTH capable and expensive vets and young talented blood to make it work, and lately Sox had either former (97-98) or latter (99-02) and almost never both, at least not to the degree that it could be THIS upcoming year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I don't buy into us being ranked 22nd at all. i'll get a bit more in depht on that at a later date, but I'm pretty biased I guess cause I think pretty highly of quite a few of our players and still think we are a top 10 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Sports fans everywhere, no matter which sport or which city, always think their own players are better than they really are. It's only natural when you pull for someone really hard. Same thing with mothers. They think their own are better looking than they really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Sports fans everywhere, no matter which sport or which city, always think their own players are better than they really are. That very true, Jim, but here's the thing, though: Players like Borchard, Rauch, Crede, Jimenez (at least before neck injury) and to th lesser extend Garland, Wright, Malone, Honel and Barcelo and Stumm of 3 years ago, etc are/were practically UNANIMOUSLY praised and accolade'ed (lol) young players that ANY scount will tell you is the real deal. They might not pan out, sure, but it's not like Sox fans are the ones making the minor league All-Star appearances and putting up great stats FOR them. Sure, when you talk about border-line players like Stewart and Hummel and Fernandez, fans may and often do exaggerate their abilities and get carried away in general excitement, but marque talents are just that. Ratings depend on so many unpredicable and subjective factors that they are almost worthless. Give me a couple of Mark Priors, Joe Borchards, Barry Zitos and Mark Buerhles and a 30th ranked system...than the much-lauded Indians one that has proven JACK so far. Of course it's not as clear cut black &white as I am making it out to be, and that great teams often have both: 2-3 electifying individual talents and an overall strong system simply because they have resources and talent directors/scouts who know their friggin' baseball...but if faced with a choice, give me more "talent" and less "depth" even if it comes at the expense of now. I can wait for Corwin Malone, but no more Jim f***ing Parques if you know what I mean. Maybe I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 BrandoFan: You're not wrong, but I bet Parque's mother thinks he is good looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 BrandoFan: You're not wrong, but I bet Parque's mother thinks he is good looking. You read WAY too much into my statement. Baseball, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 That's an insult to the White Sox farm system. I know we are best, but we are much better than #22. I'd say we'd be between 15-18 as well. With guys like Borchard, Olivo, Malone, Honel, and Rauch, there is no reason we should be ranked so low in MLB farm systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I know we are best, but we are much better than #22. I'd say we'd be between 15-18 as well. Oh, common...I'd understand the outrage if you had said we belonged in the top 7, but top 18? That's only 4 places higher than current 22. That's, like, nothing...And the ranking isn't EXACT science, you know. Not by a long shot...but you are welcome to PROVE why exactly the Sox FS is better than 22nd if you can. Maybe I am missing something. With guys like Borchard, Olivo, Malone, Honel, and Rauch, there is no reason we should be ranked so low in MLB farm systems. 1. Rauch isnt NEARLY as tauted after the surgery as he was a year ago. 2. Malone had a REALLY bad year comparatively. Yes, he was hurt, but that's no excuse as far as whoever making the ratings is concerned. In fact, injury factor makes it worse. 3. Honel is 20 and a low A ball player. Enough said. 4. Olivo is really good, but he hit just 260 in his 3 years before this one and the fact that Billy Beane (read: God) traded him away doesn't make his stock rise. Besides, he GOT PROMOTED. 5. Borchard's AAA days are numbered and scouts know it. (So far, you are 0 for 5) Lemme see: Ginter is a bust and Biddle has done NOTHING of note and is injury prone; Kip Wells, Mark Buerhle and Fogg as well as Garland and Wright are no longer in the minors as you might have heard by now. Ditto for Crede and Rowand and Harris. Stumm had a serious operation as did Barcelo. Bobby Valentine is traded and Mario Valenzula suffered a SERIOUS shoulder injury. Brooks Kieshniek is no longer with the club and both Ulacia and West have dissappointed scouts while pitching in a pitcher-friendy stadium. Tim Hummel had a terrible year and Fernandez was traded. Casey Rogowski had an injury-laden year. Ditto for power-throwing Kyle Kane...I mean, that's like 25 quality people being promoted/busting/injuring in the span of less than 2 years...WOW, is our system depleted or what?! (Munoz, Ring, Almonte and Miles were the only ones who impressed scouts very much and I doubt they are going to be in the minors for long (either brought up or in case of 26yo Miles traded). The thing is that they are relief pitchers. Not nearly as important as position or starting pitchers) Only additions of Cotts and Diaz as well as progress of Anthony Webster kept us from sliding into the Bottom Five in my opinion. So, you see why Sox farm system circa 97-2000 (that also had Maggs, Lee, Crede, Sirotka Parque as well as highly touted Barcelo, fast-moving Caruso and power-hitting Leifer and AA AllStar Jeff Abbott) is NOT nearly the same as the one we have NOW as far as Major League scouts and professional writers are concerned. Look around you, man. There are other teams besides besides the Sox with talent to boot. And for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending that Sox were "snubbed" or "insulted". Maybe Jim Fainter was right about fans' blind optimism afterall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 That's an insult to the White Sox farm system. I know we are best, but we are much better than #22. I'd say we'd be between 15-18 as well. With guys like Borchard, Olivo, Malone, Honel, and Rauch, there is no reason we should be ranked so low in MLB farm systems. well 2 and maybe 3 (out of s.t.) of those 5 are no longer in the minors......... most likely why were ranked so low....theres no one to take up the slack just yet.. alot of new faces down there...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I know we are best, but we are much better than #22. I'd say we'd be between 15-18 as well. Oh, common...I'd understand the outrage if you had said we belonged in the top 7, but top 18? That's only 4 places higher than current 22. That's, like, nothing...And the ranking isn't EXACT science, you know. Not by a long shot...but you are welcome to PROVE why exactly the Sox FS is better than 22nd if you can. Maybe I am missing something. With guys like Borchard, Olivo, Malone, Honel, and Rauch, there is no reason we should be ranked so low in MLB farm systems. 1. Rauch isnt NEARLY as tauted after the surgery as he was a year ago. 2. Malone had a REALLY bad year comparatively. Yes, he was hurt, but that's no excuse as far as whoever making the ratings is concerned. In fact, injury factor makes it worse. 3. Honel is 20 and a low A ball player. Enough said. 4. Olivo is really good, but he hit just 260 in his 3 years before this one and the fact that Billy Beane (read: God) traded him away doesn't make his stock rise. Besides, he GOT PROMOTED. 5. Borchard's AAA days are numbered and scouts know it. (So far, you are 0 for 5) Lemme see: Ginter is a bust and Biddle has done NOTHING of note and is injury prone; Kip Wells, Mark Buerhle and Fogg as well as Garland and Wright are no longer in the minors as you might have heard by now. Ditto for Crede and Rowand and Harris. Stumm had a serious operation as did Barcelo. Bobby Valentine is traded and Mario Valenzula suffered a SERIOUS shoulder injury. Brooks Kieshniek is no longer with the club and both Ulacia and West have dissappointed scouts while pitching in a pitcher-friendy stadium. Tim Hummel had a terrible year and Fernandez was traded. Casey Rogowski had an injury-laden year. Ditto for power-throwing Kyle Kane...I mean...WOW, is our system depleted or what?! (Munoz, Ring, Almonte and Miles were the only ones who impressed scouts very much and I doubt they are going to be in the minors for long (either brought up or in case of 26yo Miles traded). The thing is that they are relief pitchers. Not nearly as important as position or starting pitchers) Only additions of Cotts and Diaz as well as progress of Anthony Webster kept us from sliding into the Bottom Five in my opinion. So, you see why Sox farm system circa 97-2000 (that also had Maggs, Lee, Crede, Sirotka Parque as well as highly touted Barcelo and power-hitting Leifer and AA AllStar Jeff Abbott) is NOT nearly the same as the one we have NOW as far as Major League scouts and professional writers are concerned. Look around you, man. There are other teams besides besides the Sox with talent to boot. And for the love of all that's holy, stop pretending that Sox were "snubbed" or "insulted". Maybe Jim Fainter was right about fans' blind optimism afterall hey i said 22 was about right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 I know you did, baggio . I was replying to the other dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.