Until Kenny Can Pull off a Trade...

[aboz56]

*whispers*

 

frank thomas...  5th starter and DH....  cant hurt....

 

With that arm, he'd be a sure thing....

[elrockinMT]

The Sox didn't handle Jon Rausch properly. The guy deserved the opportunity last year late in the season when they brought up Paniagua. The guy had terrible numbers at Charlotte, but here he was pitching for the Sox and Rausch who was doing good in AAA stayed there. Jon could have had some good experience last year in the bigs and been slid into the 5th spot, but instead was tossed back into the mix and then sent to AAA. I think the idea with Cotts is a sound one-experience in the pen and then start-but he should be stretched out in AAA with a start or two or three and then brought up as #5. They have roughly 2 weks before a #5 pitcher is needed so do it now. Bring Wunsch up as the LH relief guy to take Neal's place. The whole issue with this #5 starter is getting to be absurd now. We have absolutely nothing there as far as productivity. Jon made it 3 innings today and I don't know if they were struggles or good pithed innings, but 10 hits in less than 4 innings and 5 runs in the 4th and it was all she wrote. Once again our #5 guy can't even go 5 innings. Absolutely ridiculous.

[aboz56]

Enough about Jon Rauch, he is old news as far as I am concerned. He disrespected the entire organization by leaving the game before it was even over with and that is something you just don't do, especially when you were just called-up. The Sox should let him rot in Charlotte until they find a team that will take him off their hands. And if no one wants him, let him stay in Charlotte and throw BP, he surely threw it well out there today. And it doesn't help sympathy for him when you realize that he is a worthless prick. Other guys like Diaz I can feel sorry for because yes, they were mishandled and Diaz is a good kid with a great attitude. Rauch on the other hand, let's just say I'm glad HE GAWN...

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I don't think anyone here thinks that Munoz is the next Willis or Prior.

I'm sure he's talented but it's just not going to happen...

That being said I like Grilli and i've liked him since we got him in the offeason.

He's like Jon Garland with a ton of potential. Lets just give him a shot!

And don't f*** him up this time...

[CWSGuy406]

I say make a trade for a serviceable 5th starter and quit bringing up guys from the minors who are not ready for the show and are having their confidence ruined as a result of it.

Well - I know you don't like Rauch, but now is/was his time. He's 25 so he's not really a prospect anymore, he pitched well in a hitters park, he was a good option. Oh well, that didnt work.

 

But I agree with your main point. We have to stop dicking around with this and actually go out and get a starter. Like I said, I like Glavine, Kipper, and Garcia.

[CWSGuy406]

As Jas said, most of what I'd call the "stud prospects" hardly, if ever, sniff AAA...You find most of the best pitching prospects at the AA level and they usually make the jump from there unless the club feels they need to go to AAA to develop more.

Boz, can you explain to me why they do that, call a good portion of the pitchers up from AA directly to the majors? IIRC, Birmingham = Good pitchers park, and Charlotte = Good hitters park. IMO, it would be nice to get their confidence nice and high in that pitchers park, but then they should sort of test them at Charlotte. That's just what I think, but could you give me a little better insight?

[Chisoxfn]

Boz, can you explain to me why they do that, call a good portion of the pitchers up from AA directly to the majors?  IIRC, Birmingham = Good pitchers park, and Charlotte = Good hitters park.  IMO, it would be nice to get their confidence nice and high in that pitchers park, but then they should sort of test them at Charlotte.  That's just what I think, but could you give me a little better insight?

Typically its because AA is where the best prospects are. The jump from AA to AAA isn't that big so if a team is very high on a prospect they may have them skip the level, especially if they think the player is special.

 

The only difference between AA and AAA is AAA has a lot more minor league veterans that may be a little more patient, but overall, the raw talent level in AA is much greater then it is in AAA.

[DBAHO]

Can sum1 please do me a favor next year at SoxFest, ask KW why the hell guys like Diaz and Rauch are called up when they only pitch once in nine days. Absolute stupidity, and it has wrecked the confidence of some and possibly the career of another. :headshake

[Gene Honda Civic]

I don't think anyone here thinks that Munoz is the next Willis or Prior. I'm sure he's talented but it's just not going to happen...

I think Munoz has the chance to do some really special things for this organization. He nearly made the club last season, after completely dominating in winterball. He's made a seamless conversion to Starting, even though it was initially supposed to be so he wouldn't rely on his curve as much. His success as a starter only increases his value to the Organization. He should be fixture of the Sox Pitching staff for years to come, in whatever role they choose for him.

 

 

That being said I like Grilli and i've liked him since we got him in the offeason.

He's like Jon Garland with a ton of potential. Lets just give him a shot!

And don't f*** him up this time...

 

Grilli is a full 3 years older than Garland, and is a reclaimation project after being injured and then cast off from two separate organizations. He's coming of injuries/surgery, and doesn't have the same "potential" he once did. Garland at only 24 years old, in his 4th full year in the bigs, who was once the youngest pitcher in the majors, clearly still has more upside.

[aboz56]

Typically its because AA is where the best prospects are.  The jump from AA to AAA isn't that big so if a team is very high on a prospect they may have them skip the level, especially if they think the player is special. 

 

The only difference between AA and AAA is AAA has a lot more minor league veterans that may be a little more patient, but overall, the raw talent level in AA is much greater then it is in AAA.

Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't say anything.

[aboz56]

Can sum1 please do me a favor next year at SoxFest, ask KW why the hell guys like Diaz and Rauch are called up when they only pitch once in nine days. Absolute stupidity, and it has wrecked the confidence of some and possibly the career of another.  :headshake

Don't worry, if we don't win the division this year, I'll be on the prowl...And I'm sure Steff will be giving KW some "I told you so's" concerning Willie Harris

[Guest JimH]

Guys, there is a grand total of two guys who MIGHT be a serviceable 5th starter option in the Sox minor leagues, those being Arnie Munoz and Tetsu Yofu.

 

Munoz because he's been pitching well at AA, but he's lacking in experience and is quite young.

 

Yofu because he's got significant experience and knows how to pitch, but his two starts at Charlotte have been, well, underwhelming.

 

There is a good reason why they waited and waited to name Rauch as the 5th guy, in fact they came out and admitted they were working the phones.

 

Unfortunately, these other teams are not ready to deal, it's only the end of May.

 

This is what happens when needs aren't sufficiently addressed in the off season.

 

While I give KW credit for being aggressive, they should've brought in a few more options to compete for the 5th spot. They knew all along they weren't high on Rauch - he was on a short leash in Tucson and didn't do well. Grilli? Campos? C'mon ... as quickman says ... "Please".

 

In KW's defense, he couldn't have predicted Robert Person blowing out his achilles, but look at a guy like Glendon Rusch, he's been doing a fine job as a stop gap for the Cubs (as much as I hate to admit it). That's where scouting comes in, identify the veterans who could come in on the cheap and get it done.

 

Josh Stewart? He's been getting hit pretty hard in Charlotte. Grilli has control problems and they've got nothing else.

 

Actually, I sense two trades coming. One for an end-of-the-rotation guy (fairly soon) and another closer to the trade deadline for more of a front end guy.

[Ishmookie]

i have a question what happened to all the young arms in our minor leage system? o wait! there are none. TWO WORDS: KIP WELLS!

[Guest JimH]

If you were Pirates management, would you trade Kip Wells right now?

 

While they aren't expected to stay in the race, they are at the moment.

 

Pittsburgh is trying to build a young team that's relatively inexpensive, and hoping the fan base will bond with the team.

 

Kip Wells is about the last guy they'd consider trading IMO. It just does not make sense for the Pirates.

[Ishmookie]

If you were Pirates management, would you trade Kip Wells right now?

 

While they aren't expected to stay in the race, they are at the moment.

 

Pittsburgh is trying to build a young team that's relatively inexpensive, and hoping the fan base will bond with the team.

 

Kip Wells is about the last guy they'd consider trading IMO.  It just does not make sense for the Pirates.

no i was talking about how the sox shouldn't have traded him. he'd be the perfect fit i didnt want him traded anyway if the pirates are out of the race we could pik up bensen, maybe we'd eve want fogg back. they have beenknown to get very little back for good players i.e lofton, and ramirez for hernandez and bobby hill.

[Guest JimH]

No problem, I misunderstood where you were coming from.

 

That being said, there is nothing we can do about that trade, it was a few years ago.

 

I watched some of that Pirate smackdown on the Cubs last nite at Schallers, I thought Bobby Hill looked pretty good.

[quickman]

Guys, there is a grand total of two guys who MIGHT be a serviceable 5th starter option in the Sox minor leagues, those being Arnie Munoz and Tetsu Yofu.

 

Munoz because he's been pitching well at AA, but he's lacking in experience and is quite young.

 

Yofu because he's got significant experience and knows how to pitch, but his two starts at Charlotte have been, well, underwhelming.

 

There is a good reason why they waited and waited to name Rauch as the 5th guy, in fact they came out and admitted they were working the phones.

 

Unfortunately, these other teams are not ready to deal, it's only the end of May.

 

This is what happens when needs aren't sufficiently addressed in the off season.

 

While I give KW credit for being aggressive, they should've brought in a few more options to compete for the 5th spot.  They knew all along they weren't high on Rauch - he was on a short leash in Tucson and didn't do well.  Grilli?  Campos?  C'mon ... as quickman says ... "Please".

 

In KW's defense, he couldn't have predicted Robert Person blowing out his achilles, but look at a guy like Glendon Rusch, he's been doing a fine job as a stop gap for the Cubs (as much as I hate to admit it).  That's where scouting comes in, identify the veterans who could come in on the cheap and get it done.

 

Josh Stewart?  He's been getting hit pretty hard in Charlotte.  Grilli has control problems and they've got nothing else.

 

Actually, I sense two trades coming.  One for an end-of-the-rotation guy (fairly soon) and another closer to the trade deadline for more of a front end guy.

this is one I didn't think of, but would be concerned we give up all of our top talent to do this. I actually only see them getting one fifth starter, unless we unload some folks on our roster like rowand or Maggs. Don't see maggs going yet. I will easily get rid of Rowand.

[Guest JimH]

I bet we couldn't even get an order of steak parm for Rowand.

 

"Please".

[Butter Parque]

I would rather have Olivo take over as the 5th Starter, rather then Grilli.

[guardianangel00]

Haven't been in here in a long time...

 

I grew up un Suburban Chicago but don't currently live in Illinois, so I'm not as up to date on information as you guys...

 

But...

 

Why is it that our 5th starter only gets one game?

 

Why not at least let him pitch a couple of games to see how he does?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is...just because someone has one good game does not neccisarily mean he's gonna do good the next game and the other way around.

 

These are technically "young kids", don't they need at least a game or two to adjust to the majors.

 

Just a thought...Like I said I don't have all the inside info...so I may be wrong but I just wanna know what you all think.

 

thanks.

[Chisoxfn]

Haven't been in here in a long time...

 

I grew up un Suburban Chicago but don't currently live in Illinois, so I'm not as up to date on information as you guys...

 

But...

 

Why is it that our 5th starter only gets one game?

 

Why not at least let him pitch a couple of games to see how he does?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is...just because someone has one good game does not neccisarily mean he's gonna do good the next game and the other way around.

 

These are technically "young kids", don't they need at least a game or two to adjust to the majors.

 

Just a thought...Like I said I don't have all the inside info...so I may be wrong but I just wanna know what you all think.

 

thanks.

Welcome aboard or welcome back. I see you ahve two posts and I don't know whether both came today or if you made one a while back since you said you have frequented the board in the past.

 

I think their are at least a few of us on the board that have been puzzled at the way the Sox have handled their 5th starter situation. With Diaz they seemed incredibly impatient. In Diaz first start he retired like 12 batters in a row while struggling with homers. However, he wasn't pitching on his normal rest (had too much because the Sox messed with his schedule for some reason) and then his 2nd start was on 3 days rest (I don't blame them for this) but Diaz battled and was beaten by a very good Cleveland offense that was red hot at the time.

 

Diaz didn't pitch great, but he did show some guts by staying out their and helping the team by adding a few extra innings. The Sox then sent him down instead of at least giving him another start. I saw some good things out of Diaz and felt they should of at least given it a shot, especially because I was never a fan of Rauch and if your going to use Cotts in the starters role then you have to be willing to let him go out their and slowly build up his pitch count and then move him into the rotation or let him do this over a few weeks out of the rotation.

 

I think the Sox decided they just didn't want Wunsch out of the pen and that for the time being Cotts was a more valuable asset there. They will stretch Cotts out in spring training and he will probably be a part of the rotation. I think they are taking the Mark Buehrle approach with him. A year out of the pen to get him some seasoning and then inserting him into the rotation.

[beck72]

Why is it that our 5th starter only gets one game?

 

Why not at least let him pitch a couple of games to see how he does?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is...just because someone has one good game does not neccisarily mean he's gonna do good the next game and the other way around.

Welcome.

 

The Sox are just looking for someone who can get outs and give them 5, 6 innings. With the Sox contending for 1st place, they don't have the luxury of letting a young guy "learn on the job".

 

Yet Felix Diaz earned a 2nd start because he only had 1 bad inning after 4 decent ones [or was it 3?]. The 2nd start he was just bad. Cotts wasn't ready to make the jump from the pen to the rotation. Rauch sounded like he would have gotten a 2nd start [though he grooved too many pitches, even when ahead in the count].