gay marriage.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I thought this was interesting. My father is a veteran of public health scene for the last 30 years, PhD from UNC at Chapel Hill, and so on with the credentials. He's a pretty conservative dude, loves FoxNews, for example. His thoughts on gay marriage are that we should allow them to happen because it there is little documentation on the realities of those kinds of relationships. gay couples have nearly 200% the "divorce" rates as heterosexual couples and with this information, health and family services have the data helpful to make decisions on such things as adoption.

 

The truth of the matter is that fewer and fewer people take the establishment of marriage seriously. I am completely against any marriage of two gay individuals in a Christian church...it's 100% not in line with doctrine and anyone who argues against that is a heretic and has no place in the church. However, I think that gay couples should not be discriminated against in the public setting. There's a difference between someone living in sin, i.e. you or me, and someone preaching false gospels...well, you know.

 

lots there to discuss, but I'm just curious on mainly the first part.

 

 

sox fo' life

[BrandoFan]

it's 100% not in line with doctrine and anyone who argues against that is a heretic and has no place in the church

 

Oh yeah?

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Personally I just don't care one way or the other.

If they want to get married they should be as miserable as the rest of us

[SuperSteve]

Eh, this whole gay marriage thing is like beating a dead horse. I personally don't care.

[Texsox]

Interesting theory on being able to document divorce rates to stem the tide of gay adoption. I'm not certain it will be a factor in reality. It could, and will, be argued that gay couples who adopt are more likely to stay together than couples that do not. We may also find that gay couples who are married stay together and have lower divorce rates.

 

I do not believe the availability of marriage will increase the rate of homosexuality in our society. If some sort of government recognition of the union of two people, increases committed, long term relationships, I think it is a good idea.

 

Your Church should not have to perform or recognize the union. There were, and I assume still are, Churches that do not recognize marriages if one parter is not of the faith. Same logic hear. I have no problem with our government, for the purpose of laws and benefits, only recognizing a civil union and Churches recognizing marrages.

[Wong & Owens]

gay couples have nearly 200% the "divorce" rates as heterosexual couples

If there's ever been a more ludicrous "stat" than this one, I haven't seen it.

[Texsox]

If there's ever been a more ludicrous "stat" than this one, I haven't seen it.

Cannot have a divorce rate if you do not have a marriage rate. A more interesting comparison would be to heterosexual couples who are co-habitating.

[Wong & Owens]

Cannot have a divorce rate if you do not have a marriage rate. A more interesting comparison would be to heterosexual couples who are co-habitating.

It might be more interesting, but it's still not close to comparing apples to apples.

 

Heteros(at least the majority) are brought up with marriage positioned as an expectation, the norm, etc.

 

Gay people are brought up where the same "setup" is illegal, and therefore wouldn't be taught to expect the same.

 

My point is, if gays were brought up in a society where it was expected and taught(by lecture and example) that you are supposed to choose one person to form a permanent relationship with, then you can start comparing the "divorce" rates.

[Queen Prawn]

I understand if religions don't want to marry them because of their beliefs, but I don't see the problem in allowing secular unions.

[Controlled Chaos]

Not sure where they got their stats from, but based on these I'd say 200% is about accurate...

 

A new study by a group of University of Chicago researchers reveals a high level of promiscuity and unhealthy behavior among that city's homosexual male population.

 

According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found.

 

As a result, 55.1 percent of homosexual males in Shoreland -- known as Chicago's "gay center" -- have at least one sexually transmitted disease, researchers said.

 

The three-year study on the sexual habits of Chicago's citizens will appear in the upcoming book, "The Sexual Organization of The City" (University of Chicago Press), due out this spring.

[Wong & Owens]

Not sure where they got their stats from, but based on these I'd say 200% is about accurate... 

That's some interesting stuff there, CC, but I'd still say that those results are directly linked to the fact the gays haven't had long term relationships as part of their culture.

 

Add to that the male sex drive being found in 2 parties as opposed to one(while plenty of studies show the high promiscuity and std rates of gay men vs straight men, same studies show rates among lesbians to be BELOW that of your average hetero), and you've got yourself an ongoing CaligulaFest.

[Controlled Chaos]

That's some interesting stuff there, CC, but I'd still say that those results are directly linked to the fact the gays haven't had long term relationships as part of their culture. 

 

Add to that the male sex drive being found in 2 parties as opposed to one(while plenty of studies show the high promiscuity and std rates of gay men vs straight men, same studies show rates among lesbians to be BELOW that of your average hetero), and you've got yourself an ongoing CaligulaFest.

Who determines their culture?? It isn't me. It isn't society. It is THEM. It sounds like you're trying to lay blame on something else for the way many of them act, but the only people to blame are the gays themselves.

 

It's like you are saying..."oh the poor gays...they don't know any better..that's just how they were brought up, that's their culture" Well I say bulls***... they do know better. They have known for years. It ain't rocket science, we were all taught the same things. Maybe they are gay now and I am straight, but we were all taught the same values as kids and sleeping around wasn't one of them.

 

Anyway, I am not saying all gays are like this. Hell, I have someone about 15 ft from me right now that has been with the same guy for like 10 years. I have no idea about how he was in the past, but he is settled down now. He's also 50 years old....but either way...he is part of the culture and he is in a long term relationship

[southsideirish]

Who determines their culture??  It isn't me.  It isn't society.  It is THEM.  It sounds like you're trying to lay blame on something else for the way many of them act, but the only people to blame are the gays themselves. 

 

It's like you are saying..."oh the poor gays...they don't know any better..that's just how they were brought up, that's their culture"  Well I say bulls***... they do know better.    They have known for years.  It ain't rocket science, we were all taught the same things.  Maybe they are gay now and I am straight, but we were all taught the same values as kids and sleeping around wasn't one of them. 

 

Anyway, I am not saying all gays are like this.  Hell, I have someone about 15 ft from me right now that has been with the same guy for like 10 years.  I have no idea about how he was in the past, but he is settled down now.  He's also 50 years old....but either way...he is part of the culture and he is in a long term relationship

I love it!

[Queen Prawn]

Does anyone know the stats on heteorsexuals?

[BrandoFan]

Who determines their culture??  It isn't me.  It isn't society.  It is THEM.  It sounds like you're trying to lay blame on something else for the way many of them act, but the only people to blame are the gays themselves. 

 

It's like you are saying..."oh the poor gays...they don't know any better..that's just how they were brought up, that's their culture"  Well I say bulls***... they do know better.    They have known for years.  It ain't rocket science, we were all taught the same things.  Maybe they are gay now and I am straight, but we were all taught the same values as kids and sleeping around wasn't one of them. 

 

Anyway, I am not saying all gays are like this.  Hell, I have someone about 15 ft from me right now that has been with the same guy for like 10 years.  I have no idea about how he was in the past, but he is settled down now.  He's also 50 years old....but either way...he is part of the culture and he is in a long term relationship

 

I am sure you're very much concerned about the longevity and health of homosexual "partnerships". That's why your heart-rate doubles at the mention of this subject. You care.

 

[Wong & Owens]

Who determines their culture??  It isn't me.  It isn't society.  It is THEM.  It sounds like you're trying to lay blame on something else for the way many of them act, but the only people to blame are the gays themselves. 

 

It's like you are saying..."oh the poor gays...they don't know any better..that's just how they were brought up, that's their culture"  Well I say bulls***... they do know better.    They have known for years.  It ain't rocket science, we were all taught the same things.  Maybe they are gay now and I am straight, but we were all taught the same values as kids and sleeping around wasn't one of them. 

 

Anyway, I am not saying all gays are like this.  Hell, I have someone about 15 ft from me right now that has been with the same guy for like 10 years.  I have no idea about how he was in the past, but he is settled down now.  He's also 50 years old....but either way...he is part of the culture and he is in a long term relationship

What are you talking about? Gays didn't choose to have their ability to form lifetime bonds deemed illegal, or a sin. If it's not a realistic option, then why offer it? And who exactly would have taught 30-40 year old gay men that it's OK to have a long-term same sex relationship back when they were 10-11 years old?

 

If straight men werent conditioned from birth to "fit in" by getting married, having kids, et al, I guarantee you those same rates of promiscuity and std's would be found in striaght men as well.

 

I'm not apologizing for anyone, straight or gay, who cant use common sense and protect themselves from std's. As for promiscuity, that doesn't concern me at all. There's no chance of making an unwanted child(if you're in a gay relationship that is), so if you're practicing safe sex, why not f*** anything you could? And again, this goes back to the male sex drive. If it wasn't deemed "incorrect" behavior, and if there were no potential baby ramifications, straight guys would screw everything with a pulse also.

[Controlled Chaos]

 

I am sure you're very much concerned about the longevity and health of homosexual "partnerships". That's why your heart-rate doubles at the mention of this subject.  You care.

 

My heart rate is fine...Just seemed like an interesting topic to debate and I remember reading those stats a couple months back. I'm not sure I understand your post or the reasoning for it. Go back to bashing Koch.

[Controlled Chaos]

What are you talking about?  Gays didn't choose to have their ability to form lifetime bonds deemed illegal, or a sin.  If it's not a realistic option, then why offer it?  And who exactly would have taught 30-40 year old gay men that it's OK to have a long-term same sex relationship back when they were 10-11 years old?

 

If straight men werent conditioned from birth to "fit in" by getting married, having kids, et al, I guarantee you those same rates of promiscuity and std's would be found in striaght men as well.

 

I'm not apologizing for anyone, straight or gay, who cant use common sense and protect themselves from std's.  As for promiscuity, that doesn't concern me at all.  There's no chance of making an unwanted child(if you're in a gay relationship that is), so if you're practicing safe sex, why not f*** anything you could?  And again, this goes back to the male sex drive.  If it wasn't deemed "incorrect" behavior, and if there were no potential baby ramifications, straight guys would screw everything with a pulse also.

So the reason more than 60% of homosexuals have had 30 partners or more is because it is illegal for them to get married?? I don't think so...

 

You dont have to be taught to fall in love and I'm guessing gays fall in love just like straight people do. You said "As for promiscuity, that doesn't concern me at all. There's no chance of making an unwanted child(if you're in a gay relationship that is), so if you're practicing safe sex, why not f*** anything you could?" I say because if you are in love with someone you don't. If you are in a commited relationship....you don't. I don't think there are "straight relationship rules" and "gay relationship rules." I also don't think they cheat on each other and sleep around because they can't get married. I don't know their reason. I know what's right from wrong why don't they? You blame illegal marriage...I blame THEM. They make their own values.

 

 

If straight men werent conditioned from birth to "fit in" by getting married, having kids, et al, I guarantee you those same rates of promiscuity and std's would be found in striaght men as well.

If it wasn't deemed "incorrect" behavior, and if there were no potential baby ramifications, straight guys would screw everything with a pulse also.

 

I don't think I was conditioned to do anything. I knew I could get married, but nobody molded me or expected me to.

You are totally taking out the emotional side of a relationship and only focusing on the physical side. There's emotions that keep straight guys from screwin everything with a pulse. It isn't cause of baby ramifications and I don't know where you got that it is deemed "incorrect" behavior for a guy to get laid. That is the furthest thing it is deemed. If anything it is glorified. Now if you are in a committed relationship and you cheat...THEN...it is deemed incorrect behavior as it should be.

[Steff]

QUOTE

A new study by a group of University of Chicago researchers reveals a high level of promiscuity and unhealthy behavior among that city's homosexual male population.

 

According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found.

 

As a result, 55.1 percent of homosexual males in Shoreland -- known as Chicago's "gay center" -- have at least one sexually transmitted disease, researchers said.

 

The three-year study on the sexual habits of Chicago's citizens will appear in the upcoming book, "The Sexual Organization of The City" (University of Chicago Press), due out this spring.

 

 

 

IMO, that's just gross.

[IlliniKrush]

Those numbers are shocking. Wow.

[Wong & Owens]

So the reason more than 60% of homosexuals have had 30 partners or more is because it is illegal for them to get married?? I don't think so...

 

No, it's because you're dealing with two(or more) male sex drives in an environment where there's not as much to gain by committing to a monogamous relationship(i.e. no procreation), nor is there any societal influence pushing them in that direction. As I said before, if straight men weren't nudged by society into marriages, and if women didn't require monogamy as a trade-off for the benefits of being in a long-term dealie, then straight guys would be in the same boat as gay guys when it comes to promiscuity. The STD thing is something I cant figure out. Demographically, gays are usually smarter in general than straight people, so why are so many acting moronically when it comes to sexual health?

 

(I hope I did this Multi-Quote thing right finally)

 

 

 

You said "As for promiscuity, that doesn't concern me at all. There's no chance of making an unwanted child(if you're in a gay relationship that is), so if you're practicing safe sex, why not f*** anything you could?" I say because if you are in love with someone you don't.

 

Sure you don't, but you're a guy--have you been in love with every girl you slept with? If you were being honest, wouldn't you say you wish you slept with MORE girls that you weren't necessarily in love with?

 

 

I don't think there are "straight relationship rules" and "gay relationship rules."

 

Me neither, tell that to the idiot in the White House.

 

I also don't think they cheat on each other and sleep around because they can't get married.

 

Who says anyone is cheating on anybody? What if it's simply casual sex between consenting adults? Albeit an IMMENSE amount of casual sex. Again, straight guys would be doing it too, if they could get away with it.

 

I don't know their reason. I know what's right from wrong why don't they? You blame illegal marriage...I blame THEM. They make their own values.

 

Taking the STD's out of the equation, why is it inherently wrong to have copious amounts of boot-knockin'?

 

 

I don't think I was conditioned to do anything. I knew I could get married, but nobody molded me or expected me to.

 

Yes, that's exactly what they want you to think.

 

You are totally taking out the emotional side of a relationship and only focusing on the physical side. There's emotions that keep straight guys from screwin everything with a pulse.

 

I would disagree. I would say it's because 1)women won't allow it, and 2)society(generally speaking) frowns on it.

 

It isn't cause of baby ramifications and I don't know where you got that it is deemed "incorrect" behavior for a guy to get laid.

 

No, I meant it's socially/politically incorrect for a person to be promiscuous.

You really think Wilt Chamberlain's claims were "glorified?" I think most people just thought it was skanky.

[Gene Honda Civic]

So the reason more than 60% of homosexuals have had 30 partners or more

That statement is completely false.

 

Homosexuals refers to both gay males and Lesbians. you have no data to support your claim for females. And until you prove other wise, you're simply manipulating statistics to support your claim.

[Controlled Chaos]

That statement is completely false.

 

Homosexuals refers to both gay males and Lesbians. you have no data to support your claim for females.  And until you prove other wise, you're simply manipulating statistics to support your claim.

try reading the entire thread of you are going to throw out accusations...I am not manipulating anything...MEN had already been stipulated and I don't feel the need to repeat it over and over. If you wish to chime in perhaps you should at least read the whole thread.

 

According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found.

[Wong & Owens]

That statement is completely false.

 

Homosexuals refers to both gay males and Lesbians. you have no data to support your claim for females.  And until you prove other wise, you're simply manipulating statistics to support your claim.

Actually, Cheat, there are numerous studies that show that homosexual MEN have wayyy more sex partners and std's as your average straight guy, but they also show that lesbians have much LOWER rates than your average straight folk.

[Steff]

Bla... still gross. :puke