BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Could always count on Billy Goat and Headcase Sox Prospect #166 to stop whatever momentum hapless Sox could muster dead in its tracks, demoralizing the team, 2003-style. Shingo is the only winner in this BP full of incorrigible losers. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Could always count on Billy Goat and Headcase Sox Prospect #166 to stop whatever momentum hapless Sox could muster dead in its tracks, demoralizing the team, 2003-style. Shingo is the only winner in this BP full of incorrigible losers. :puke Billy Koch is our closer no matter what, until Ozzie wants to change up. Look, what happened happened and we must live with it. We need to stop complaining about it, after all, there are other teams of our capability that need a closer still. We had our chances, and we did not execute, its that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 marte's not too bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Billy Koch is our closer no matter what, until Ozzie wants to change up. Look, what happened happened and we must live with it. We need to stop complaining about it, after all, there are other teams of our capability that need a closer still. We had our chances, and we did not execute, its that simple. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Billy Koch is our closer no matter what, until Ozzie wants to change up. Look, what happened happened and we must live with it. We need to stop complaining about it, after all, there are other teams of our capability that need a closer still. We had our chances, and we did not execute, its that simple. Koch had his chance, and didn't execute. It's THAT simple. I never want to see him closing in a Chicago uniform again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 One thing about Ozzie is he is not stupid. I would be shocked if this isn't curtains for Koch. He just isn't a good closer anymore. At least not for the Sox. Ozzie started to platoon Rowand and Crede is getting a bit more time off not playing every single day. I firmly believe we're going to see Marte be our closer night in and out from now on. Koch is simply not good enough. Again, Oz is a very smart skipper and baseball guy. I think Koch is done. I think we'd be better off releasing him or dumping him to the NL for one marginal prospect. It's just not working out. It's like Clayton and Todd Ritchie. It's a failed experience. Please Sox, dump Koch. I don't even want him in our bullpen by committee. Make it Marte and Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Please, lets not reignite the "Marte as closer" bandwagon. He has blown his share of saves this year, and although he is beginning to show promise I still believe his role is best suited as setup to a REAL closer. Should also be noted that success as a relief pitcher does not always translate into that of a closer; ask Letroy Hawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Good point Tizzle. I wonder what we should do? Koch is horrible and Shingo probably isn't the answer, is he? I'd say Marte is our only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 One thing about Ozzie is he is not stupid. I would be shocked if this isn't curtains for Koch. He just isn't a good closer anymore. At least not for the Sox. Ozzie started to platoon Rowand and Crede is getting a bit more time off not playing every single day. I firmly believe we're going to see Marte be our closer night in and out from now on. Koch is simply not good enough. Again, Oz is a very smart skipper and baseball guy. I think Koch is done. I think we'd be better off releasing him or dumping him to the NL for one marginal prospect. It's just not working out. It's like Clayton and Todd Ritchie. It's a failed experience. Please Sox, dump Koch. I don't even want him in our bullpen by committee. Make it Marte and Zero. Not going to happen, but I wish that'd happen. Hey, other teams have it worse! Look, Oakland came out without Chavez, last time I checked the Mets still had 17.5 mil against them with Mo Vaughn out for a career...and hell, another bad contract...Hundley! Other teams have it a lot worse than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 I just not want to hear about either Koch or Adkins. Hattenberg would have never gotten around a 99mph fastball in thar location letters-high. Koch bragged about being able to throw 98+ again a few weeks ago. Well, let's see it Billy Boy - I am sure you can get hitters belt-high with a 98 mph heater with 2 strikes. Just 1 such pitch per at bat would make all the difference in the world.... Adkins? Almost never pitches in close games and we all saw why. Has Kotsay at 1-2 and can't put him away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Could always count on Billy Goat and Headcase Sox Prospect #166 to stop whatever momentum hapless Sox could muster dead in its tracks, demoralizing the team, 2003-style. Shingo is the only winner in this BP full of incorrigible losers. :puke Tell us how you really feel, Mr Sunshine. Near as I can tell, this game only counted as one loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 We are still in first place. Just calm down and look ahead... GO SOX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 (edited) What f***ing baseball game did you clowns watch today? Because the 1 I saw had us strand 14 f***ING runners on base....it saw Adkins give up a FAT pitch to Mark Kotsay of all people to lose the game....and yet we are harping on the guy that made 2 great pitches, bot resulting in 2 broken bat singles. Koch got beat on his pitches, plain and simple. Don't EVEN START with this Marte for Closer garbage. I don't know how some of you drama queens can hype Damaso Marte for a role that he has had NO success in long term. People wonder why I take extended breaks from even coming to Soxtalk, well threads like this one should more than easily explain it. Good Riddance to all you crybaby "Reason we lost today" "fans". Talk to me when you cant talk about replacing someone every single day of the season that we lose a game. :fyou Edited to fix my typing error on LOB Edited June 3, 2004 by Capn12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 14 runners... actually... i dunno... but i dont want marte closing... SHINGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 One thing about Ozzie is he is not stupid. I would be shocked if this isn't curtains for Koch. It won't be, and it shouldn't be, based on today's performance alone. Cap nailed it - NOBODY stepped up when we needed it today. I lost count of the runners we stranded. A couple broken bat hits and a pitch in the dirt is a tough way to send a game into extras, and two walkoffs in two days is not easy to swallow. But those who want to hang the whole thing on Koch didn't pay attention to the first 8 innings of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I agree that we can't blame this totally on Koch, no one came up clutch today on offense, yet we are placing all of the blame on Billy and Adkins. How about a few clutch hits, fellas? Is that too much to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 What f***ing baseball game did you clowns watch today? Because the 1 I saw had us strand 14 f***ING runners on base....it saw Adkins give up a FAT pitch to Mark Kotsay of all people to lose the game....and yet we are harping on the guy that made 2 great pitches, bot resulting in 2 broken bat singles. Koch got beat on his pitches, plain and simple. Don't EVEN START with this Marte for Closer garbage. I don't know how some of you drama queens can hype Damaso Marte for a role that he has had NO success in long term. People wonder why I take extended breaks from even coming to Soxtalk, well threads like this one should more than easily explain it. Good Riddance to all you crybaby "Reason we lost today" "fans". Talk to me when you cant talk about replacing someone every single day of the season that we lose a game. :fyou Edited to fix my typing error on LOB Well of course the offense crapped its pants in the clutch. That goes without saying. Rowand and Alomar and Kong and all. Dransfelt was basically picked off second when he turned an infield single by Uribe into an out. Etc. Ok, but how does that excuse Adkins failing in the first big game he's gotten to pitch in a while? And our closer..........Koch did get beat by 2 good swings. But I don't want him to get beat AT ALL in a 1-run game - getting beat by bloopers is what a 3-run lead is for. He's been DEEEPLY mediocre this year when you dig a little deeper into his stats, and only pure dumb luck kept him from blowing at least 2-3 more saves. That pitch Hattenberg turned around was shoulders-high inside 93mph heater. If it was 98 mph, Hattenberg is as good as dead. Billie says he can throw in high-90's if he wanted to.....Why didn't he? Is he stupid? Like I said, Billy Goat gets ONE MORE CHANCE to prove to everybody that he can be as good as Foulke or Rivera - that's who he is going to measure up against in the playoffs afterall. Uno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Well of course the offense crapped its pants in the clutch. That goes without saying. Rowand and Alomar and Kong and all. Dransfelt was basically picked off second when he turned an infield single by Uribe into an out. Etc. Ok, but how does that excuse Adkins failing in the first big game he's gotten to pitch in a while? And our closer..........Koch did get beat by 2 good swings. But I don't want him to get beat AT ALL in a 1-run game - getting beat by bloopers is what a 3-run lead is for. He's been DEEEPLY mediocre this year when you dig a little deeper into his stats, and only pure dumb luck kept him from blowing at least 2-3 more saves. That pitch Hattenberg turned around was shoulders-high inside 93mph heater. If it was 98 mph, Hattenberg is as good as dead. Billie says he can throw in high-90's if he wanted to.....Why didn't he? Is he stupid? Like I said, Billy Goat gets ONE MORE CHANCE to prove to everybody that he can be as good as Foulke or Rivera - that's who he is going to measure up against in the playoffs afterall. Uno. 1 more chance? Says who, Brando Fan? Unless you have an unknown high position in the Organization, I'm not sure you can be throwing that claim around. Aso for Billys stats this year, are you sure about that pal? Because before tonight, you could remove the s***ty performance against KC, and this is what Koch's numbers are: 18.2 IP, 12 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 1 HR, 8 BB, 23 K's, 1W-0L-7Sv, 0 BS, .207 BAA, 2.41 ERA Whats misleading about that? A 1.07 WHIP, 1+ K/IP.... Sorry Brando, what you say isnt true. Maybe he jsut didnt have the velocity tonight. Its obvious that sometimes he doesnt, the KC game was horrid as he fired 92 MPH straight missle after the other right down the plate. All I'm saying, is get off Koch's ass people. Its ok to actually blame other members of this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 1 more chance? Says who, Brando Fan? Unless you have an unknown high position in the Organization, I'm not sure you can be throwing that claim around That's right, I personally give the scumbag POS that was half the reason (the other was Konerko) why Sox missed the playoffs in a very special 2003 season......one more chance. One more loss or a BS and I am afraid me and Billie Goat won't be friends anymore. Because before tonight, you could remove the s***ty performance against KC Nope, can't do that. Sorry Brando, what you say isnt true Sure it is. KC game. Both games in Baltimore, esp one with Uribe making that stop. Close calls to say the least. The bases loaded, 1-out situation against Cle at home - Sox ended up losing it anyway but at least Koch got out without any damage IIRC. The Oakland game. Opening day, of course. I am sure there were more, check the logs as I could be off a game here and there. He's actually had a chance to "pad" his stat'rinos more than a closer should. Koch has been far from what the 6.3 Million say he should be. Benitez and Foulke - that is what expected of Koch. You needn't call for other players' heads in an attempt to deflect. Almost everybody not named Uribe, Willie or Thomas were ripped apart many times so far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 A couple broken bat hits and a pitch in the dirt is a tough way to send a game into extras, and two walkoffs in two days is not easy to swallow. But those who want to hang the whole thing on Koch didn't pay attention to the first 8 innings of the game. A couple broken bat hits and a pitch in the dirt is a tough way to send a game into extras, and two walkoffs in two days is not easy to swallow. But those who want to hang the whole thing on Koch didn't pay attention to the first 8 innings of the game. A couple broken bat hits and a pitch in the dirt is a tough way to send a game into extras, and two walkoffs in two days is not easy to swallow. But those who want to hang the whole thing on Koch didn't pay attention to the first 8 innings of the game. Rhodes won today? Walked three in the 9th? Off of Koch: 2 broken bat hits and a pitch that if it didn't bounce off the umpire's leg might have never left Sandy's reach. I didn't see Koch give up the game winning homer though. What channel was that on? We had ten innings in which our offense failed to take advantage of much of anything. If our team ERA were 3, it would all be cool. We failed to hit today when it would have put the game away. Koch was just one player on a 25 member team. I was not happy with him but it is not something he should be denounced for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 1 more chance? Says who, Brando Fan? Unless you have an unknown high position in the Organization, I'm not sure you can be throwing that claim around. Aso for Billys stats this year, are you sure about that pal? Because before tonight, you could remove the s***ty performance against KC, and this is what Koch's numbers are: 18.2 IP, 12 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 1 HR, 8 BB, 23 K's, 1W-0L-7Sv, 0 BS, .207 BAA, 2.41 ERA Whats misleading about that? A 1.07 WHIP, 1+ K/IP.... Sorry Brando, what you say isnt true. Maybe he jsut didnt have the velocity tonight. Its obvious that sometimes he doesnt, the KC game was horrid as he fired 92 MPH straight missle after the other right down the plate. All I'm saying, is get off Koch's ass people. Its ok to actually blame other members of this team. Careful. You'll make someone on this board :puke because you are complaining about people bashing players. I know. I've been "guilty" of increasing the :puke level on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The ONLY complaint I'll post about Koch's performance yesterday was that I didn't see any evidence of that nasty curve he was throwing the last time out. That hook could have changed the hitters' expectations about what he might throw. Even with their hitters expecting dead red, he did saw off a couple bats and the bloops fell. It's baseball, that s*** happens sometimes. Oh, and Shingo looked fantastic again - does that mean he could necessarily do that with the game in the balance? I dunno....but I AM curious...... Oh, one more thing - bases loaded in the 8th AND 9th and ZERO runs - that had a little something to do with the outcome of the game as well - just sayin'....if it's a 2 or 3-run lead, then it takes more than a couple bloops to tie it....team game and all that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 The ONLY complaint I'll post about Koch's performance yesterday was that I didn't see any evidence of that nasty curve he was throwing the last time out. That hook could have changed the hitters' expectations about what he might throw. Even with their hitters expecting dead red, he did saw off a couple bats and the bloops fell. It's baseball, that s*** happens sometimes. Oh, and Shingo looked fantastic again - does that mean he could necessarily do that with the game in the balance? I dunno....but I AM curious...... Oh, one more thing - bases loaded in the 8th AND 9th and ZERO runs - that had a little something to do with the outcome of the game as well - just sayin'....if it's a 2 or 3-run lead, then it takes more than a couple bloops to tie it....team game and all that.... Was exactly what I was tryin to say Critic....Koch got beat on some decent pitches. Ya, the curve wasn't there at all for some reason, but lets not forget that bases loaded in the 8th and the 9th, 0 runs. Thats how you lose games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 All I'm saying, is get off Koch's ass people. Its ok to actually blame other members of this team. I think you've got to blame BOTH the offense and Koch for yesterday's loss. Unfortunately, Koch doesn't get the benefit of the doubt because his performances in the past have been scary. Yes, he's got some saves, but those of us who said that giving up runs IS an important issue are going to continue to be proven right if Koch keeps closing close games. Luck evens out and it has caught up to Koch. Yes he was a little unlucky yesterday, but he was very lucky for many of his saves this year. As for the offense, I'm a little worried that without Maggs for a month or 2 we could be seeing alot of this. Hopefully our other RBI producers will step up. Sorry if I offended Billy Koch or anyone else on the team with my criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Throw out the first game Shingo pitched and you've got: 19.1 IP 9 H 1 R 1 ER 0 HR 5 BB 16 SO My trusty calculator says that's an ERA of 0.46. WHIP of .72. If you don't think Shingo should be our closer, I'd suggest watching hitters flail all over the place trying to hit a 60 MPH frisbee after seeing a astball paint the corner at 87. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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