YASNY Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 The numbers don't lie...but if you referring to me because i said it, i never said a word about Uggie...or anything about Koch in that whole post. I'm just simply saying look beyond save/save opp ratio, that's all. I wasn't picking on you. I just remembered reading that as I was typing in my posted. You made some very valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Personally I think everyone overlooks Koch. I didn't see the game he blew the other day, but he has not looked bad. His control has been the one bad thing, but he seems to be limiting his hits as evidence of a pretty decent opponent batting average (at least it was decent before his last blown save) and if you take away his early outing or two he's been pretty rock solid. I don't know if Koch can do it in the playoffs, but as of now, I think everyone is really blowing this problem out of proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Personally I think everyone overlooks Koch. I didn't see the game he blew the other day, but he has not looked bad. His control has been the one bad thing, but he seems to be limiting his hits as evidence of a pretty decent opponent batting average (at least it was decent before his last blown save) and if you take away his early outing or two he's been pretty rock solid. I don't know if Koch can do it in the playoffs, but as of now, I think everyone is really blowing this problem out of proportion. Did you watch today? Every pitch is straight and he got lucky to get oiut today without blowing it up He gave up an 0-2 hit to opposite field to an old man like Edgar And then Olerud smoked one ...fortunately it went straight to Crede who made a great D play to get the out Then Boone hit one hard to Val too.... Here is the problem we Koch criticizers have against him.....his strength is no longer existing. He is a 98 MPH blow it by everyone pitcher.....anyone who has seen him get success over the years with Tor or Oakland has seen how he gets his outs Now, with his velocity gone (and that is not temporary as he did not have it all last year too), how is he going to get someone out? Every decent closer out there has a great out pitch Now he may close a few because of the leads we give him and the fact that some line ups like Seattle's is inept But do you seriously believe this guy can close in a 1 run game in the playoffs? And against the Bo Sox, Angels or Yankees line up? Seriously, I cannot believe some of you....watch the darn game...his pitches look hittable all the freaking time....nothing dominating about him I will pray for a miracle every time he goes there and will root like crazy, but at some point you have to understand that if that pitch looks easy to hit to you on TV, imagine how those batters feel Go and look at how many 1,2,3 innings he has had.....go ahead and see my post above...the answer is 4 and 3 out of 4 were games that were won or lost before he came to pitch (huge leads one way or the other) I am amazed that some of you can accept him when we all know we are not interested in just going to the playoffs....we want to win there and no way he can successfully pitch then as of what he is throwing right now :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Today, he pitches and has a couple of rockets hit at people. Last game, he gets beat on 2 broken bat singles. They all balance out, unless your Koch. He gets reamed for both games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Didn't see todays game as well, but I don't make decisions based on one or two games. I have watched him and he's a better pitcher then everyone gives him credit for or at least most. He's not what he once was and he may not be good enough, but he's still a solid pitcher and is far from the worse closer in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Agreed he is not the worst closer in the majors, but he is definitely not a closer for a contending team either The guy just does not have it to get many strike outs now If you give a team so many contact opportunities, and you do not have a sinker or any pitch that moves, you will get hit.... I cannot even imagine this guy pitching to the Angels, Bo Sox or Yankees in the playoffs....ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Agreed he is not the worst closer in the majors, but he is definitely not a closer for a contending team either The guy just does not have it to get many strike outs now If you give a team so many contact opportunities, and you do not have a sinker or any pitch that moves, you will get hit.... I cannot even imagine this guy pitching to the Angels, Bo Sox or Yankees in the playoffs....ouch Hed be run out of town pretty damn quick and they'd make sure that the door hit him in the ass on the way out. Here he has a flock of apologists who stick up for him no matter how bad he gets. :fyou Botch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Here is another stat for you Koch lovers (anthony - moron, try defending this one) Koch has now allowed the first batter he faces to get on base 12 out of 22 times. :fyou Botch....kiss my ass loser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 He has converted 8 out of 10 save opportunities. Consider it defended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Here is another stat for you Koch lovers (anthony - moron, try defending this one) Koch has now allowed the first batter he faces to get on base 12 out of 22 times. :fyou Botch....kiss my ass loser That's a damning stat... I didn't wade trough each outing that was posted earlier. That's the Key Koch has to get the first guy. If he does that he'll be sucessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 That's a damning stat... I didn't wade trough each outing that was posted earlier. That's the Key Koch has to get the first guy. If he does that he'll be sucessful. Nah. Koch has to put a couple of runners on to get into the mood to pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Nah. Koch has to put a couple of runners on to get into the mood to pitch. Sad but true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Chicago White Sox News Closer with a K: Despite Billy Koch's blown save Wednesday in the 3-2 loss to Oakland, Ozzie Guillen isn't tempted to give Takatsu a few chances at closing out a game. "Shingo is doing a tremendous job," said the White Sox manager of Takatsu. "But the only way Shingo is going to [close games] now is if we go to extra innings. "I think Shingo has thrown the ball real well, outstanding. I think he's going to be better because he's got more confidence. He knows how to pitch at this level." Guillen knew Takatsu had the ability to dominate in the Major Leagues, mentioning you don't save 260 games at any level without having some talent. But the media attention surrounding Takatsu in Arizona gave Guillen a slightly skewed view of the Far Eastern free agent, when it more pressure on the veteran then he could handle at the time. "When he came to the states in Spring Training, I was shocked because I didn't think he was that good," Guillen said. "I think it was the media's fault, all the Japanese [media] around him every day. He had too much pressure and couldn't do anything. "Hopefully, when he comes back for the next Spring Training, hopefully he won't have any (of the Japanese) media around him. The media killed him in Spring Training. The media almost got him released." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I'd just leave Shingo where he is rite now, he's turned into our major setup man or at least shares the role with Marte now. I think a lot of teams are goin to try and sign Japanese relievers now the success of Shingo and Otsuka in San Diego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Game 53 - SEA (6/4) Sox win 4-2. Koch enters 9th with 4-2 ead. Gives up lead off single on a 0-2 count to Edgar M. Next batter hits a scorcher but great D by Crede saves Koch's sorry ass again. Sox win with runner on 3rd and tying run at the plate. 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R (0 K) Do you always have to be a douchebag about this?? Cant you just give credit to Koch for getting the save insted of saying thanks to Crede "saving his ass"? This is pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Here is another stat for you Koch lovers (anthony - moron, try defending this one) Koch has now allowed the first batter he faces to get on base 12 out of 22 times. :fyou Botch....kiss my ass loser Yes.. im a moron for liking Koch I guess that makes you a genious for not liking him Either way... you b**** when he blows a save and you b**** even more when he gets a save trying to say the defense saved his ass Where was the defense the other night when Sandy let that ball go by and Rowand just completely MISSED that ball in the outfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 No, it isnt. Crede did bail out Koch last night, cause he made a great grab on a ball that was smoked. So? Thats his job.. to play defense at his posistion and he did.... Are you going to give Crede credit for the save now??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 2004 Smoltz : 7 Saves 1 Blown Dotel : 8 Saves 2 Blown Hawkins : 3 Saves 2 Blown Guardado : 9 Saves 3 Blown Koch : 7 Saves 2 Blown Borowski : 9 Saves 2 Blown What is it you were saying again?! Perhaps some of us need to start looking at these super-closers super-statistics and realize they aren't much better than the guys we're using in Chicago. In case you don't realize it yet...not everyone can have Gagne. k-thanx for listening. -y2 Good Post. I wonder if it would be the same if Koch had an ERA of 1 something. Closer are gonna blow some games and that part of baseball. I think many people are looking at Billy's ERA, and maybe how billy scares the s*** outta all of us when he's called in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I don't particularly like Koch, but congrats to Anthony for sticking by his closer. If Koch ends up saving 30, you will have the last laugh. For now I'm just glad he got last night's save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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