whitesox61382 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 As the season goes on I am beginning to see more flaws in Guillen's managing. He ran the Sox out of the game on Saturday. Today, despite the fact that Loaiza was around 110 pitches(after 6), struggled the past couple of innings, and had 3 lefties(1 switch hitter) coming up he left Loaiza in, and to no surprise he gives up a HR. Lets hope this error in Guillen's managing doesn't come back to bite the Sox, and does not continue as the season goes on. It would be sickening if the Sox lose 4 out of 5 games on this road trip, when they could easily be 5-0. I truely believe that 1 run loses are harder to take than blowouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 As the season goes on I am beginning to see more flaws in Guillen's managing. He ran the Sox out of the game on Saturday. Today, despite the fact that Loaiza was around 110 pitches(after 6), struggled the past couple of innings, and had 3 lefties(1 switch hitter) coming up he left Loaiza in, and to no surprise he gives up a HR. Lets hope this error in Guillen's managing doesn't come back to bite the Sox, and does not continue as the season goes on. It would be sickening if the Sox lose 4 out of 5 games on this road trip, when they could easily be 5-0. I truely believe that 1 run loses are harder to take than blowouts. This is Ozzie's first season as a manager, he is going to make some rookie mistakes here and there. With that said I think the atmosphere he creates makes up for questionable decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 While your right, ozzie had made mistakes. He has definitely been a goood, overall manager this entire year. He's not perfect, no need to complain...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 While your right, ozzie had made mistakes. He has definitely been a goood, overall manager this entire year. He's not perfect, no need to complain...... Soxn'bears is that the official cover for NCAA football this year in your avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 While your right, ozzie had made mistakes. He has definitely been a goood, overall manager this entire year. He's not perfect, no need to complain...... I agree that the atmosphere he creates has been great, but that doesn't mean you can simple ignore the managing mistakes that he makes or that it necessarily makes up for them. He will make some rookie mistakes, but he needs to learn quickly from them and by the 2nd half he shouldn't be making the same mistakes twice. I have been pleasantly surprised with Guillen so far, but I am going to wait a year or two before I start drawing solid conclusions about his managing abilities. Lets not forget that almost the exact same things that are being said about Guillen were said about Manuel in his 1st year. It is remarkable how similar the comparison is so far. I realize that they are completely different people and personalities, but people were saying that Manuel's laid back attitude brought a great atmosphere. The Sox also got off to a great start and the managing mistakes that Manuel made were sort of pushed aside and ignored. It took a couple of years of underachieving to realize that Manuel was not a good manager. Just something to keep in mind for all those Guillen lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confederate_48 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Leaving Koch as closer is another screw up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Koch is on Williams, period. How many teams have a 6 million dollar mop up guy? If Koch isn't the closer or setup man, he's f***ing useless to this team. I know he is useless as a closer, but money is a factor with this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Koch is on Williams, period. How many teams have a 6 million dollar mop up guy? If Koch isn't the closer or setup man, he's f***ing useless to this team. I know he is useless as a closer, but money is a factor with this team. Which is why Royce Clayton stuck around as long as he did, why JM didn't bench PK until June of last year, and JM wasn't fired after the 02 season or in April of 03, and, quite frankly, was probably why Ozzie Guillen was hired over Cito Gaston. You don't sign guys to huge ass contracts, you don't have to play them. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Koch is on Williams, period. How many teams have a 6 million dollar mop up guy? If Koch isn't the closer or setup man, he's f***ing useless to this team. I know he is useless as a closer, but money is a factor with this team. I hate when people say things like this because it simple isn't(shouldn't be the case). You have to pay the guy 6M no matter role he plays, so put him in the role that hurts the team the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 If koch is the closer on tuesday, I'm gonna f***ing flip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Notice in the 5th or 6th during the manager interview they asked Ozzie who he had for his bullpen. He said something like "I got Marte and Shingo ready...and I think Koch is my closer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This whole argument is by the wayside by now. You "have" to give a guy a shot initially because of the money he's making. By this point, the money makes no difference. He could be making 30 million a year right now, that doesn't mean he should still be closing. Eat your losses now and get him out of there. You aren't fooling anyone. We already realize he's a waste of money; how bout he becomes a waste of money that doesn't cost us games anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 This whole argument is by the wayside by now. You "have" to give a guy a shot initially because of the money he's making. By this point, the money makes no difference. He could be making 30 million a year right now, that doesn't mean he should still be closing. Eat your losses now and get him out of there. You aren't fooling anyone. We already realize he's a waste of money; how bout he becomes a waste of money that doesn't cost us games anymore. I suggest a name change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 He is a mop up guy, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Shingo will be the closer by Tuesday. That is my personal opinion. I think Ozzie is a big reason we are winning this season. His managing style has helped us win. He is unpredictable. You take the good with the bad. His will make mistakes, but so far his style has worked very well for us. If you are going to complain about his style when we lose then do the same when we win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Ozzie has also told us time and again he is very impatient. No way Koch is closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I suggest a name change. If you missed the post in an earlier thread, i didn't make the name because i liked Koch. I thought he'd be a badass closer, and i needed to make up a name for this board quickly so i could start posting. So i used our big name acquisition in my handle (feb 2003). I have never defended him on here, period. In fact, i don't like Koch at all and haven't since may of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 If you missed the post in an earlier thread, i didn't make the name because i liked Koch. I thought he'd be a badass closer, and i needed to make up a name for this board quickly so i could start posting. So i used our big name acquisition in my handle (feb 2003). I have never defended him on here, period. In fact, i don't like Koch at all and haven't since may of last year. I understand your plight but you should request a name change anyways. Avoid association with that loser. Koch at HIS BEST is a one pitch pitcher because he can only get his fastball over the plate consistently and 95% of hitters aren't fooled by his curveball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Gload got the big hit to give the Sox a two run cushion, so that was a good move by Guillen and good execution by Gload. Koch is not getting the job done. To make matters worse, he can't throw strikes and they're killing his fastball. Boone fought that high one off and drilled it into right. If he can't get high fastballs past these guys and it's the only pitch he can remotely throw for strikes, get him out of the closer role. There is such a thing as showing confidence in a player, which Guillen has done. We are now at the point where this guy is simply not deserving of the faith Guillen has shown in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 If you missed the post in an earlier thread, i didn't make the name because i liked Koch. I thought he'd be a badass closer, and i needed to make up a name for this board quickly so i could start posting. So i used our big name acquisition in my handle (feb 2003). I have never defended him on here, period. In fact, i don't like Koch at all and haven't since may of last year. Oh I know. I see you don't like him either, but the sight of his name..... :puke Damn. The other games he's blown, I wasn't as crushed to see him do that. Tonight was different though, I was joking about it with a friend, and then he goes ahead and pulls a Billy Koch......Damn, why are we paying him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 How do I apply for Koch's job? That has to be the easiest 6M in the world. I would have no problem blowing games for 6M. Not that I would do it on purpose, but my 75 mph fastball would probably get hit just as hard as Koch's garbage that he throws up there. Koch doesn't understand how lucky he is. If he was working a REAL job and screwed up so often he would have been fired a long time ago. You said it best when you said that Koch is stealing 6M a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 The 6 million you're on the hook for is gone. That's bad money, and the Sox should forget about it, and release the mother. Because having him lose games and paying the 6 milllion is far worse than having him gone and paying him the 6 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I thought that Ozzie should have saved Marte for the Ichiro and Winn at bats in the ninth. That was his big mistake as far as I was concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I thought Ozzie made a mistake having Uribe sacrifice in the inning that Carlos left the bags loaded. That brought up Willie to face a lefthanded pitcher after already squandering one out. I know Willie already a hit, but the odds of him getting two in a row facing a lefty are just a bit too long. And that 1st pitch strike call against Lee really hurt. The next two pitches he swung at, he HAD to because that outside corner was 4 inches wider than it should have been, in his mind. We could have broke the game open right there if that ump would have called a decent strike zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 First let me say that I like Ozzie. I love the atmosphere and the way the guys are playing. However, since this thread is here, I figured I'd stick my two cents in. Now this mistake didn't turn out so bad because we won the game, but it doesn't mean it wasn't made. We needed an insurance run here and a pinch runner would have gotten it. If you are up 4-2 and Konerko leads off with a single it seems like common sense to me to get a pinch runner. Anyone would have been safe at second on Perez's FC which would have been a hit, then they would have easily tagged on Crede's deep fly and then scored on Olivo's double. I just don't get the logic on leaving Konerko in to run. Anyway that was one flaw I noticed. It wasn't magnified cause they won, but when Konerko got that hit I was wondering who was coming in to pinch run and nobody did. CHICAGO SOX 9TH -S Hasegawa relieved M Myers. -Top of the 9th inning -P Konerko singled to left. -T Perez grounded into fielder's choice to shortstop, P Konerko out at second. -J Crede flied out to center. -M Olivo hit a ground rule double to deep center, T Perez to third. -W Harris walked. -J Uribe flied out to right. 0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, Seattle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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