clujer420 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 1991 -- Frank .318, 32, 109 Sox record -- 87-75 (12 over) 1992 -- Frank .323, 24, 115 Sox record -- 86-76 (10 over) 1993 -- Frank .317, 41, 128 Sox record -- 94-68 (26 over) 1994 -- Frank .353, 38, 101 Sox record -- 67-46 (21 over) 1995 -- Frank .308, 40, 111 Sox record -- 68-76-1 (8 under) 1996 -- Frank .349, 40, 134 Sox record -- 85-77 (8 over) 1997 -- Frank .347, 35, 125 Sox record -- 80-81 (1 under) 1998 -- Frank .265, 29, 109 Sox record -- 80-82-1 (2 under) 1999 -- Frank .305, 15, 77 Sox record -- 75-86 (11 under) 2000 -- Frank .328, 43, 143 Sox record -- 95-67 (28 over) 2001 -- Frank .221, 4, 10 (20 games) Sox record -- 83-79 (4 over) 2002 -- Frank .252, 28, 92 Sox record -- 81-81 (.500) Looking at this, you see a few things. Firstly, Frank's career numbers are f***ing incredible. He was hitting 40 and driving in 120 when it was actually an accomplishment. Secondly, you see that while the Sox didn't always win when Frank had a great year (such as 1995 and 1997), they certainly haven't won without him playing like himself (their best non-Frank year was 2001, and they were 4 games over .500). With Frank playing like we've all gotten used to, the Sox are an average of 12 games over .500 (certainly in contention for a playoff spot). With Frank playing poorly (or like 2001, not playing at all), the Sox are an average of 3.25 games over .500 (in contention for 1st tee at the local country club). And for the record, Frank's bad years, according to me and most everyone else, were 1998 (29 HR and 109 RBI), 1999 (hit .305), 2001 (only played 20 games), and 2002 (28 HR and 92 RBI). His good years were 1991-1997 and 2000. So, for those of you who say the Sox will be better off without him and you can't wait for him to be gone, you'd better be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt4evah Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 HAHA AMEN BROTHA! When you look at those stats, how can you possibly not want him on your team?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Its kinda funny. The guy hits 29 homeruns and has 109 RBIs and then he hits 28 homeruns with 92 RBIs and we call em bad seasons. Just goes to show how good he really is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 cluger, thank you - Frank is so vewry vital to the team and we had no where this consistency in being 500 since the 60s so I think the Frank Thomas era (which I hope we are only midway through) has been a very productive one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 When you look at it...and you figure it out....you can tell the big reason why Frank is a better player than SamME. Flubbie fans have made the arguement that because Sosa has had no talent behind him, the Cubs haven't had winning seasons. Look at the 1991 season for us....we went 85-77....how in the hell did we do that? Our biggest power guy(other than Frank)was Robin Ventura...he hit .284 23 100....all team high numbers. That means that only 2 players on that team hit atleast .284 23 100. Fisk and Pasqua both hit 18 homers and both struck out 86 times....Fisk hit .241, Pasqua hit .259. We also had a young SamME Sosa...he hit .203 10 33 with 14 walks and 98 K's(in 116 games...ouch). The bullpen deserves a lot of credit for that...but we only had 1 starter with an ERA under 4(McDowell at 3.41....and this is not in the juiced ball era, remember). He also threw over 250 innings. Not much, really. Given, that was a year after the Sox won 94 games....but still, consider that. In 1992....Thomas finished second on the team in homers(to one George Bell...who was proud of his .294 OBP)....however, no one else hit 20....and only 4 were in double digits. Other than Frank, 1 guy hit above .290, 1 guy hit above .280 and 2 guys hit .279(anyone remember Shawn Abner?). The starting rotation improved slightly, and the bullpen statistically was about the same....but had two guys with an ERA over 4.75....and two guys below 2.00. That isn't much talent, if you ask me. I won't talk about 1993 and 1994....but we probably wouldn't have been as successful without Thomas. In 1996....the Sox were a better team than their final record indicated. They did have talent offensively...and had the pitching staff been as good as it was in 1993 or 1994....they could have been playoff bound. Same thing could be said about the 1995 staff...though their pitching was worse than the 96 staff. This was really when the Sox became a big offensive team rather than a big pitching team. The Sox pitching, again, was bad in 1997....and without Thomas's great year, we probably wouldn't have been where we were. The point being Cubs fans really can't talk about SamME not having talent around him....because for a few years, Thomas has had no talent around him either. The White Sox have still been consistently better than the Cubs....atleast when he had good pitching around him...he could use it. Unlike SamME....he has good pitching around him right now...and he had it last year as well. I bet the Cubs don't crack the 75 win barrier...and they didn't crack the 70 win barrier this past year. It is very pitiful when you lose 90 games.....does anybody realize that Thomas doesn't know what it feels like to lose 90 games? He never will either...because he makes the team that much better....atleast a 73 win team....and usually more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 excellent analysis my Dakota friend, thanks for adding some real data to your argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 When you look at those stats, how can you possibly not want him on your team?? I have criticized Frank before and will do it again I'm sure. I know I don't speak for everybody, but I don't think there's anybody here that wouldn't want Frank Thomas on the White Sox. It's just that when he opens his mouth and everything that comes out of it is, "me, me, me, me, me," like this past weekend, some Sox fans get upset..... and rightfully so. Here we have a clubhouse that, in the press, seems focused and ready to reclaim the AL Central and Frank Thomas calls a press conference to b****, moan, and whine. I'm sure that really helps the team. If Frank Thomas sees himself as the leader of this team, he needs to start acting like it..... on and off the field and, when necessary, with the media. No wonder why the guys talk smack about him if this press conference of his is any indication of how he is in the clubhouse. If he's so unhappy with the White Sox and feels that he is not being respected by his teammates and/or his management and/or his owner, he had the opportunity, from what I hear, to go to LA. But, for whatever reason, he is still with the Sox and he needs to put all of the offseason bulls*** behind him and focus on the 2003 season at hand. Nobody here is going to dispute Frank's lifetime numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 If I'm not mistaken he doesn't seem to think he's the team leader, isn't that alot of what he was talking about? I don't think that that is too important. I love Frank Thomas, and I don't care what he says as long as he goes out there and hits the damn baseball a long way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I love Frank Thomas, and I don't care what he says as long as he goes out there and hits the damn baseball a long way I'm a Chicago White Sox fan, not a Frank Thomas fan... I do care what he says if it can negatively affect the team. I wish he'd just shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I'm a Chicago White Sox fan, not a Frank Thomas fan... I do care what he says if it can negatively affect the team. I wish he'd just shut up. AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 they can win without him i think now. They have enough big bats in the lineup. But why would we want to get ride of him he still can help our team abunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 they can win without him i think now. They have enough big bats in the lineup. But why would we want to get ride of him he still can help our team abunch Well, I agree. We've got a fantastic lineup even without Frank. But, even with his struggles over the past couple of seasons, have you noticed the difference in the appearance of our lineup when he is in there vs. when he isn't? Just the name THOMAS appearing in the 3rd slot has an impact on you, even if he's in an 0-12 slump -- because the fans (and opposing pitchers) know he's going to break out of it in a big way, and that it's only a matter of time. And yes, Frank has several big years ahead of him. He wants to get to 500 HR and guarantee himself a spot in Cooperstown, and with 348 career, he'll need about 4 or 5 solid seasons to get there. He would prefer to do it in a Sox uniform, but no matter where he is, he'll do his best to achieve that exclusive number. Let's see..he needs 152, so if he plays another 5 years, that's "only" a bit less than 31 a year (30.4 to be exact). Even when he has a "bad year", he nearly gets that, so he should get there pretty easily (barring injuries, of course). Hey, Frank doubters... :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Hey, Frank doubters... :fyou I agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_SSAC Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I'm a Chicago White Sox fan, not a Frank Thomas fan... I do care what he says if it can negatively affect the team. I wish he'd just shut up. AMEN! Ditto. Frank is getting to me with the whinning, and quite frankly, based on the past two seasons stats, if he's putting up similar numbers this season, we can do without him easily. Prove me wrong Frank. - Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Prove me wrong Frank. That is the gayiest thing ever when someone tells me that i try even less. my school teacher does it to me so i ussally prove him right. maybe that is just me but i ussally dont prove people wrong when they say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_SSAC Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Prove me wrong Frank. That is the gayiest thing ever when someone tells me that i try even less. my school teacher does it to me so i ussally prove him right. maybe that is just me but i ussally dont prove people wrong when they say that. Well, I hope to s*** you're not Frank then, or else I hope you'll be taking a bus when you have to travel since you'll be in AAA - Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 That is the gayiest thing ever when someone tells me that i try even less. I am personally sick unto death of the word gay being used as a derogatory term. How many times do we have to ask for that common respect for other posters? It would be more to the point to have written "That is the most juvenile high school aged boy thing ever..." Enough is enough of the usage of the word gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 do i think we can win without frank....yes i do... would i want to try it without him should be the question.......no i dont... not unless you have someone like bonds to replace him.........our lineup is awesome and im sure could handle the work load without him, but i like the extra insurance that frank brings to the table... just knowing if God forebid for some reason one of our strong bats goes down.. frank is there to help out or keep the strength together.......cant deny him his accomplishments in his career... hes put up some outstanding numbers and is the only white sox in our entire history whos been in 3 championships with the team... thats gotta account for something too right........frank is frank.. hes selfish at times and whatever but he does his job and thats what he gets paid for.....as long as he produces no need to be rid of him.. when he stops then its time to cut him loose.............mho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 do i think we can win without frank....yes i do... would i want to try it without him should be the question.......no i dont... not unless you have someone like bonds to replace him.........our lineup is awesome and im sure could handle the work load without him, but i like the extra insurance that frank brings to the table... just knowing if God forebid for some reason one of our strong bats goes down.. frank is there to help out or keep the strength together.......cant deny him his accomplishments in his career... hes put up some outstanding numbers and is the only white sox in our entire history whos been in 3 championships with the team... thats gotta account for something too right........frank is frank.. hes selfish at times and whatever but he does his job and thats what he gets paid for.....as long as he produces no need to be rid of him.. when he stops then its time to cut him loose.............mho HSC.....agreed 100%....on all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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