And your 2004 nl cy young award winner is

[Jordan4life_2007]

He does it again..6 2/3 shut-out innings to improve to 9-0. This guy is so amazing. Like I said. When they get Pettite back their staff is just as good if not better than the Flubs. That's right..I said BETTER.

[witesoxfan]

When they get Pettite back their staff is just as good if not better than the Flubs.  That's right..I said BETTER.

I still take Prior-Wood-Zambrano-Maddux-Clement over Clemens-Oswalt-Pettitte-Miller-Redding any day of the week.

[DonkeyKongerko]

Ballpark factors have to be considered when you're talking about parks as different as Minute Maid Park and Wrigley Field.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I still take Prior-Wood-Zambrano-Maddux-Clement over Clemens-Oswalt-Pettitte-Miller-Redding any day of the week.

I wouldn't. Clemens and Pettite have not only performed during the regular season. They're money pitchers come playoff time. Can't say the same for Wood, Prior, and especially Maddux. I'll take Oswalt over Zambrano. I'll take Miller over inconsistent Clement. All Redding has to do is keep his era around 4 and they're the best. I won't even get into the differences between Minute Maid Park "which is a hitters park" over "pitcher freindly wrigley".

[witesoxfan]

Ballpark factors have to be considered when you're talking about parks as different as Minute Maid Park and Wrigley Field.

This is true.

 

Even with that, I still take the Cubs rotation over the Astros rotation. Maybe I just prefer power pitchers(Maddux aside) over finesse/non-power pitchers (with Oswalt and Clemens aside).

 

If you can strike 10-15 out a night, it does not matter what ballpark you play in.

[aboz56]

Randy Johnson, anyone?

[southsider2k5]

Randy Johnson, anyone?

Jaime Navarro anyone?

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't.  Clemens and Pettite have not only performed during the regular season.  They're money pitchers come playoff time.  Can't say the same for Wood,  Prior,  and especially Maddux.

So Wood and Prior from last year don't count? The Cubs were 5 outs away from going to the World Series and most likely winning it, but Bartman/A-Gonz ruined any shot they had. Wood had one bad start in the playoffs last year, and Prior had no bad starts. Wood and Prior single-handedly shutdown a very, very potent Braves offense, and damn near knocked Florida out in Florida, had it not been for Beckett.

 

And Maddux has a World Series ring too. I think I'd take that him my playoff staff. Not over Roger Clemens, but I'd take him. Maddux is not there to be the ace, he's there to be the #3 or #4 pitcher.

 

I'll take Oswalt over Zambrano.  I'll take Miller over inconsistent Clement.  All Redding has to do is keep his era around 4 and they're the best.  I won't even get into the differences between Minute Maid Park "which is a hitters park" over "pitcher freindly wrigley".

 

I take Prior over Clemens, Wood over Pettitte, Oswalt over Maddux, Zambrano over Miller, and Clement over Redding. And if you switch that around and have Zambrano be the #3 and Maddux #4, I still would probably take Zambrano over Oswalt(Zambrano is less injury prone and puts up better numbers), and possibly Maddux over Miller...I'd have to think about that one.

 

And I take them no matter what park we're talking about.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So Wood and Prior from last year don't count?  The Cubs were 5 outs away from going to the World Series and most likely winning it, but Bartman/A-Gonz ruined any shot they had.  Wood had one bad start in the playoffs last year, and Prior had no bad starts.  Wood and Prior single-handedly shutdown a very, very potent Braves offense, and damn near knocked Florida out in Florida, had it not been for Beckett.

 

And Maddux has a World Series ring too.  I think I'd take that him my playoff staff.  Not over Roger Clemens, but I'd take him.  Maddux is not there to be the ace, he's there to be the #3 or #4 pitcher.

 

 

 

I take Prior over Clemens, Wood over Pettitte, Oswalt over Maddux, Zambrano over Miller, and Clement over Redding.  And if you switch that around and have Zambrano be the #3 and Maddux #4, I still would probably take Zambrano over Oswalt(Zambrano is less injury prone and puts up better numbers), and possibly Maddux over Miller...I'd have to think about that one.

 

And I take them no matter what park we're talking about.

As Wood said after gm 7 last year, "I CHOKED". Prior also CHOKED when it mattered most. Maddux's career playoff numbers r horrible. Clemens and especially Pettite r both playoff proven. As far as the comparing thr Cubs staff 1-5 to the Astro's 1-5. I'll take Clemens Over Wood. Oswalt and Prior is a wash. I'll take Pettite over Zambrano. I'll take Miller over 38 YEAR OLD Maddux. As of right now I would take Clement over Redding. But if Redding turns it around like I think he will and Clement comes back down to his normal "look like cy young 1 start, then look like Todd Ritchie the next" i'll go with Redding.

[witesoxfan]

As Wood said after gm 7 last year,  "I CHOKED".  Prior also CHOKED when it mattered most.  Maddux's career playoff numbers r horrible.  Clemens and especially Pettite r both playoff proven.

Wood had one bad game. That does not qualify him as a choker. He did choke...but we all have at some point in time.

 

Prior, unlike what you think, did NOT choke. Bartman and AGonz(especially AGonz) ruined any shot he had at ending that series and sending the Cubbies to the World Series.

 

Clemens and Pettitte are playoff proven, yet you do not bring up how THEY choked against the Marlins last year. They couldn't win the World Series for the Yanks last year, could they? You call Wood and Prior chokers because of one year, I call Clemens and Pettitte chokers because of one year. Period.

 

As far as the comparing thr Cubs staff 1-5 to the Astro's 1-5.  I'll take Clemens Over Wood.  Oswalt and Prior is a wash.  I'll take Pettite over Zambrano.  I'll take Miller over 38 YEAR OLD Maddux.  As of right now I would take Clement over Redding.  But if Redding turns it around like I think he will and Clement comes back down to his normal "look like cy young 1 start,  then look like Todd Ritchie the next" i'll go with Redding.

 

I take Clemens over Wood too. That's not how the Cubbies rotation is though. It is Prior-Wood-Zambrano-Maddux-Clement.

 

If you are going to bring age into consideration with Maddux, but NOT Clemens, you are contradicting your argument.

 

I take Prior over 41-YEAR OLD Clemens(I don't care what his numbers are), I take Wood over Pettitte, Zambrano over Oswalt, Miller over Maddux(if age is brought into the equation here), and Clement over Redding.

 

Quit sipping the orange and black Houston Astros kool-aid and open your eyes. The Cubbies rotation is the best in the league, and, IMO, is the best BY FAR(when healthy of course).

[Jordan4life_2007]

Wood had one bad game.  That does not qualify him as a choker.  He did choke...but we all have at some point in time.

 

Prior, unlike what you think, did NOT choke.  Bartman and AGonz(especially AGonz) ruined any shot he had at ending that series and sending the Cubbies to the World Series. 

 

Clemens and Pettitte are playoff proven, yet you do not bring up how THEY choked against the Marlins last year.  They couldn't win the World Series for the Yanks last year, could they?  You call Wood and Prior chokers because of one year, I call Clemens and Pettitte chokers because of one year.  Period.

 

 

 

I take Clemens over Wood too.  That's not how the Cubbies rotation is though.  It is Prior-Wood-Zambrano-Maddux-Clement. 

 

If you are going to bring age into consideration with Maddux, but NOT Clemens, you are contradicting your argument.

 

I take Prior over 41-YEAR OLD Clemens(I don't care what his numbers are), I take Wood over Pettitte, Zambrano over Oswalt, Miller over Maddux(if age is brought into the equation here), and Clement over Redding. 

 

Quit sipping the orange and black Houston Astros kool-aid and open your eyes.  The Cubbies rotation is the best in the league, and, IMO, is the best BY FAR(when healthy of course).

Listen Chip Carey. Do you really want me to bust out Andy Pettite's career playoff record? Do you really want me to show you what Clemens has done in his career in the post-season? I don't think you want me to.. And get off that BARTMAN BULLs***. You sound like a typical Cubs fan. Hell, u just might be one. Prior gave up a double to Pierre, Walked Castillo, threw a wild pitch, gave up a hit to Rodriguez and gave up a 2 run double to Derek Lee. YES HE CHOKED. And don't give me any bulls*** excuses. Now last time I checked Kerry Wood was their #1 starter. But lets go your route. Prior over Clemens? The same Clemens that's 9-0 with an era at just over 2? Try again Buddy. You would take Wood over Oswalt? The same Wood that's never posted an era under 3, that walks 100 batters a year, that's never won anymore than 14 gms? Oswalt went 14-3 with a 2.73 era, 19-9 in 2002 with a 3.01 era, was only 10-5 last year "only made 21 starts due to injury" with a 2.97 era. Oswalt over Wood. I'll go Pettite over Zambrano ESPECIALLY IN A POST-SEASON GAME. Miller at this point is pretty much better than an old, DECLINING Maddux. I'll take Clement over Redding FOR NOW. I'm still waiting for Clement to become the OLD Clement. It's already starting to happen. So once again. Astro's rotation > Cubs rotation.

[HighHeat45]

Wood

Prior > Pettite (Pettite has had continous injury problems this year and prior is good to go till october)

Maddox

Zambrano > Miller

Clement >>> Redding

 

Cubs win

[witesoxfan]

Listen Chip Carey.

Real bright. Stoop to personal attacks. Well done.

 

.  Do you really want me to bust out Andy Pettite's career playoff record? 

 

No need. I'll do it.

 

13-8 4.05 ERA with a WHIP of 1.355, K/9 of 5.7, K/BB of about 2. Real dominant

 

Do you really want me to show you what Clemens has done in his career in the post-season? 

 

Again, no need. I can do that as well.

 

8-6, 3.47 ERA, WHIP of 1.175, K/9 of 8.3, K/BB of of just under 3. Not bad. Not as good as you thought though, huh?

 

I don't think you want me to..You'll look even dumber. 

 

On the contrary. Here's Prior's playoff stats and Wood's playoff stats.

 

2-1, 2.31 ERA, WHIP of 1.072, K/9 of about 7, K/BB of 2. Pretty damn good

 

2-2, 3.86 ERA, WHIP of 1.284, K/9 of about 10, K/BB of 2. Much of that is as much as it is due to ONE bad outing.

 

As I have said before...I take Wood and Prior over Clemens and Pettitte.

 

And get off that BARTMAN BULLs***.  You sound like a typical Cubs fan.

 

I have always thought that the Bartman catch was fine.

 

Note that I said Bartman/AGonz(especially AGonz)...you'd think maybe there was something else that ruined the Cubs chances OTHER then Bartman?

 

If AGonz fields the ball that was hit to him cleanly, the Cubs are the defending World Series champs...period. Bartman could have stuck his ass in Alou's face and farted, and nothing would have mattered so long as Gonzalez fielded that ball. It's quite simple, really.

 

Hell,  u just might be one.

 

"U" might just be an Astros fan. Like I could give a s***.

 

I actually dislike the Cubs very much, I just look at s*** realistically.

 

And don't give me any bulls*** excuses.  Now last time I checked Kerry Wood was their #1 starter. 

 

Any smart man would realize that Mark Prior(18-6 2.43 K/9 of about 10, K/BB of about 5, WHIP of about 1.15...also quite possibly the best pitcher in the league) is the actual ace of the staff. Dusty Baker may have Wood over him in the depth chart, but Prior's the ace. Period.

 

Prior over Clemens?  The same Clemens that's 9-0 with an era at just over 2?  Try again Buddy.

 

You mean the same Clemens that's 41 years old? The same Clemens who had an ERA of 3.91 last year? You'd have him over Mark Prior, who is just 23, who put up 18-6, 2.43....numbers last year? You are simply clueless if you'd do that. You take Clemens now, see him start to fade as the second half goes on, and see Prior just dominate hitters in the second half, and then see Clemens most likely retire next year, while I would have Prior for another 15-20 years for me. How about you try again.

 

You would take Wood over Oswalt?  The same Wood that's never posted an era under 3,  that walks 100 batters a year,  that's never won anymore than 14 gms? 

 

When did I say that? You are putting words into my mouth.

 

I would take Wood over Pettitte(because you make it sound like Pettitte is the greatest thing since sliced bread).

 

Wood's never had an ERA under 3, but I could care less...he's a horse out there. He's like Bartolo Colon. Colon's had an ERA under 3 once in his life, and I would take him over most of the pitchers in the league(though not this year...it appears Colon's fastball is in Billy Koch-land and he's burnt out).

 

Wood walks a lot of hitters. So did Nolan Ryan. Are you going to take another pitcher over Nolan Ryan because Ryan walked a lot of hitters?

 

Walks, while you would not like to have them, are not as big a deal as you make them.

 

And wins for a pitcher is quite possibly the most overrated stat ever. Prior to 2003, Wood had been on several very s***ty Cubs teams. The only playoff team he'd been on was the 98 team, and I do not believe he started the year with the team(noting that he only started 26 games that year). And he should have won more then 14 last year, had the bullpen not blown about 5 games that he started and left with the lead in. He could have had 17 or 18 very easily.

 

Oswalt is good. I'd still rather have Zambrano over him though, expecially considering that Zambrano is putting up these numbers at the age of 23(and he just turned 23 less then 2 weeks ago...June 1st). He could be putting up insane numbers by the time he reaches his prime.

 

And if you'd rather have Pettitte then Zambrano, you can worry about different sports, because baseball is not for you. Pettitte is one of, and may very well be, the most overrated pitcher in today's game.

 

Miller at this point is pretty much better than an old,  DECLINING Maddux.

 

Wade Miller, the one who's 6-6 3.99 ERA 1.34 WHIP, K/9 of about 8, K/BB of less then 2? Over Greg Maddux, who's 5-4 4.13 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, K/9 of 6-7, K/BB of about 3.5? I can give you that. That's pretty much a tossup.

 

I wouldn't say Maddux is declining, but I'd definately say he's getting older...much like Clemens.

 

I'll take Clememt over Redding FOR NOW.

 

About time you said something smart.

 

Will you take Redding over Clement once his ERA is under 5.00 though? I bet you do.

 

I'm still waiting for Clement's to become the OLD Clement. 

 

You mean the one who was 12-11 3.60 WHIP of 1.20 K/9 of 9.5 or so, K/BB of 2.5 in 2002? Or the one who was 14-12 4.11 WHIP of 1.23 K/9 of about 7.5, K/BB of 2.5 in 2003? I can't figure it out.

 

And I'd take either one of them over Redding...in a second. In fact, I'd be hard pressed NOT to take Clement over Miller. Clement's a good young pitcher.

 

It's already starting to happen.

 

How so? He's 7-4, ERA's 3.28, WHIP's 1.12, K/9 is about 9, K/BB is about 3.5. I don't get it.

 

So once again.  Astro's rotation > Cubs rotation.

 

No it's not. Cubs rotation >>>>>Astro's rotation.

 

Open your eyes and admit that the Astro's rotation is inferior to the superior Cubs rotation. The Cubs rotation is the best 1-5 in the majors. When Matt Clement is your #5(and he'd be atleast a #3 in our rotation), you either have a dumbass manager who doesn't know how to make a rotation(which is true in some cases for the Cubs but not this one), or you have a kick ass rotation. The Cubs have the latter.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Damn. Did you have to quote every other sentence, practically. I don't even feel like responding to all that..Anyway. You have your opinion and I have mine. When both rotations r healthy. I'll go with the Stro's.