DBAHO Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 From the Sun - Times, Were they using a tee? Did someone juice the balls, cork the bats, turbocharge the jetstreams? What was advertised as an interleague game between the White Sox and Philadelphia Phillies actually served as extended batting practice Tuesday evening, a popcorn popper of a barrage in which the Sox amassed 11 runs, 10 hits and six home runs before dusk completely fell. All we needed to make the scene whole was the reincarnate Dick Allen, by far the most notable common denominator between the clubs. When you watch so many fireworks explode, when you marvel at the clouting abilities of the Sox, it's only more maddening to ponder how dangerous this team would be if a legitimate closer was in the house. What do we do best in Chicago life, anyway? We close the deal. Some do it in power lunches, some do it at the Board of Trade, others do it under the table. But the deal gets done --unless we're counting the bullpen at the Ballmall Formerly Known as Comiskey Park. It might interest you to know what my Boston pals are telling me, that Keith Foulke jerseys are popping up in the Fenway Park stands. He is pitching well for the Red Sox, just as he pitched well for Oakland last season and just as he would have performed markedly better for the White Sox than the man for whom he was traded. Foulke could have been the South Side closer for years, the one remnant of the 1997 White Flag trade that made an otherwise surreal deal make sense. But Ken Williams dared to engage in business with Billy Beane, the brash Oakland counterpart who made Kenny GM look silly in the best-selling book ''Moneyball.'' Figuring he could save money in the long run -- the pervasive Reinsdorfian mantra -- Williams dumped Foulke before his free-agent season and assumed the contract of a similarly successful closer. Everyone wondered what Beane was up to. And then we saw Billy Koch unravel, embarrassing Williams again. Never, ever forget that the Sox are their worst enemies. They seem to perpetually spin their wheels in counterproductivity, covering up major personnel mistakes with patches. In their latest twist, they will use a Japanese reliever named Mr. Zero and a set-up man by trade, Damaso Marte, to close games while Koch and his $6.375 million salary become merely a part of the late-innings committee. ''I'm going to go with anyone,'' Ozzie Guillen explained rather murkily. ''It's going to depend on how the matchup looks. [Koch] is not out of the picture; he's still in my bullpen. But right now, I'm going to go with my gut feeling.'' As a pre-emptive measure, he may want to line that gut with Pepto Bismol. This is no way to win the American League Central, much less reach the World Series. With Foulke at peak form, I honestly could project the Sox as a clear division favorite and a formidable October team. But with Shingo Takatsu, Marte and anybody else who answers the want ads, Guillen clearly is rolling the dice in a league that features closers such as Foulke in Boston, Mariano Rivera in New York, Troy Percival in Anaheim and even a 15-save retread named Joe Nathan in Minnesota. It's a shame, because few teams match the Sox as an offensive force. The emerging stud is Carlos Lee, who extended his hitting streak to 23 games with an early homer, oddly his first in six weeks. Another week of this, and Lee turns into a national media watch. Indeed, these are heady times for the first-place Sox, assuming they aren't spun into nausea by bullpen woes. The hope is that Williams has found a $750,000 bargain in Takatsu, who earned his nickname because he never allowed a postseason run in Japanese ball. But racking up 260 career saves on the other side of the world provides no assurance that Mr. Zero can deliver in a big-league pennant race, particularly when he barely throws hard enough to knock a beer out of a fan's hand. With a fastball slower than Joe Borowski's, in the mid-80s, he relies on a changeup and a sidearm sinker. Takatsu has had success so far, allowing zero runs in his last 181/3 innings and retiring his last 13 batters. And it was curious to see him peering at Philadelphia hitters from the pen through binoculars, proving he's a student of pitching. But the concern is that hitters will figure him out the second time around. At 35, Mr. Zero wanted the challenge of the sport's highest level and left behind bigger money in his homeland. Sox scouts noticed him during an open workout in California over the winter. True, we've seen enough Japanese players succeed in the majors to believe in Takatsu's credibility. But it remains to be seen whether he and Marte can be consistent in crunch moments. What is known is that Koch can't be trusted, not after his nationally televised meltdown Sunday night. Guillen has given him every chance to regain his command and break a season-and-a-half slump, but Koch has lost his confidence and has become the pariah of 35th Street. ''It's embarrassing'' said Koch, a stand-up guy. ''I let down 24 guys in this room, the coaching staff and the fans of Chicago.'' As it is, Williams has been on the lookout for another starter. Specifically, he has targeted Seattle's Freddy Garcia, who happens to be Guillen's close friend and offseason hangout partner in Venezuela. But other teams want Garcia, including the Yankees and division-rival Twins, and likely have more to offer than Williams. It's doubtful the Sox will get Garcia if they only can offer a package of disappointing prospect Joe Borchard, outfielder Aaron Rowand and pitcher Jon Rauch. With all four starting pitchers developing consistency, Williams should prioritize a closer in trade talks. While chatting with the Mariners, he might want to ask about Eddie Guardado, who has 10 saves, an 0.99 ERA and a 31-7 strikeouts/walks ratio for a losing team. Jose Mesa could be available, but he comes with baggage. So does ex-Sox starter Rocky Biddle, who succeeded last year as Montreal's closer but since has struggled. Did someone say John Smoltz? Whatever Williams' next move is, it better be big and better be good. He's the one, after all, who traded The Solution for The Problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 i don't think the fact that we'll have marte or zero closing is as bad a thing as he's trying to make it out to be. other than that, way to point out the obvious mariotti (sp?)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 That said, using Marte and Zero in their current roles, followed by an accomplished MLB closer, would be a truly beautiful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I cannot believe this was a Jay Mariotti article. It's a shame, because few teams match the Sox as an offensive force. The emerging stud is Carlos Lee, who extended his hitting streak to 23 games with an early homer, oddly his first in six weeks. Another week of this, and Lee turns into a national media watch. WOW!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 That said, using Marte and Zero in their current roles, followed by an accomplished MLB closer, would be a truly beautiful thing. i completely agree. that was the what i meant by the "pointing out the obvious" part of my reply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 oh yeah, and welcome to soxtalk moreCowbell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 oh yeah, and welcome to soxtalk moreCowbell... Thanks, chief. I've been surfing some Sox boards for a little while now. This looks like a real good one that resembles my favorite Bears board... so I'm glad to be here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 oh yeah, and welcome to soxtalk moreCowbell... Welcome in!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 That said, using Marte and Zero in their current roles, followed by an accomplished MLB closer, would be a truly beautiful thing. True, but even more beautiful would be a reliable veteran starter to get the Sox to the Damaso and Shingo Show. I'm fairly confident in these two to take care of innings 8 and 9, I'd LOVE to see someone in that 5th spot to get them to the 8th inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I know there's alot of Mariotti bashing on this board - but, as usual, he got it exactly right again. It looks like losing Foulke for Koch has to rank right next to the Ritchie trade as the two biggest blunders of KW's regime. I'm willing to try Shingo for a few weeks and concentrate on getting another starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 True, but even more beautiful would be a reliable veteran starter to get the Sox to the Damaso and Shingo Show. I'm fairly confident in these two to take care of innings 8 and 9, I'd LOVE to see someone in that 5th spot to get them to the 8th inning. That's also a good thing, too. But even your Aces aren't going to get you to the 8th inning every time out. I think both these solutions help this team out a lot: bring in a veteran set-up man, enabling Zero or Marte to close bring in a veteran closer, giving us two great set-up men. I suppose we could pray for a miracle and hope "he whose name we shall not speak" gets his control back and can contribute as a set-up man, but let's not hold our breath. I really like the idea of bringing in Everyday Eddie since I believe he can close AND set-up. It gives us a lot of late inning flexibility, based on righty-lefty and career average and ERA against, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 (edited) I know there's alot of Mariotti bashing on this board - but, as usual, he got it exactly right again. It looks like losing Foulke for Koch has to rank right next to the Ritchie trade as the two biggest blunders of KW's regime. I'm willing to try Shingo for a few weeks and concentrate on getting another starter. Imagine where we would be if we hadn't made that Ritchie trade. Was there anybody who thought it may have worked out? I remember thinking it had to be a prank or something, it was just such a terrible, one-sided deal. We wouldn't be looking for starter #5 at the least. Maybe Kip would have won us the division last year. At least when we gave up Foulke we got Olivo out of it. Edited June 9, 2004 by moreCowbell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obstacle 1 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Imagine where we would be if we hadn't made that Richie trade. Was there anybody who thought it may have worked out? I remember thinking it had to be a prank or something, it was just such a terrible, one-sided deal. We wouldn't be looking for starter #5 at the least. Maybe Kip would have one us the division last year. At least when we gave up Foulke we got Olivo out of it. one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Guess I type faster than my internal grammar check I'll edit it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Damn Mariotti, slamming Koch. What the Hell does Mariotti know? Has he ever stepped on a big league mound? He doesn't even show his face at the Cell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninem Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I actually have no problem with this article, I think he's hit it on the head..but the best thing about the article is hearing that Shingo was watching the opposing batters..that's sweet. I like seeing a guy dedicated to doing his best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 What about Ugueth Urbina? I know you usually don't trade with teams in your division, but Ozzie and he are real close friends. Ugh would probably want to pitch for Ozzie again. Just a thought. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 What about Ugueth Urbina? I know you usually don't trade with teams in your division, but Ozzie and he are real close friends. Ugh would probably want to pitch for Ozzie again. Just a thought. CWSOX45 Urbina's in Billy Koch land. 14 walks in less then 20 innings? a 4.58 ERA? a WHIP of 1.58? Some of those are worse then Koch. The one good thing about him is that he hasn't given up a homer yet. But when that's the best thing about you, you are in trouble. Regarding the article...I have no problem with it at all. I usually don't have a problem when people hit a problem right on the head and don't act like an ass about it when they do. Mariotti's a jackass, but he is right on. We do need a closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Damn Mariotti, slamming Koch. What the Hell does Mariotti know? Has he ever stepped on a big league mound? He doesn't even show his face at the Cell Be Nice now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Welcome Cowbell.... And to Moronotti.....Why are you stating the obvious and putting s*** into it? Moronotti.... :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Moranatti = captain obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 We have Shingo and that's all that matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 At least when we gave up Foulke we got Olivo out of it. Actually, Foulke brought us Cotts along w/ Koch. Chad Bradford brought us Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 I know there's alot of Mariotti bashing on this board - but, as usual, he got it exactly right again. It looks like losing Foulke for Koch has to rank right next to the Ritchie trade as the two biggest blunders of KW's regime. I'm willing to try Shingo for a few weeks and concentrate on getting another starter. Sorry to call you out on this but the Foulke trade is still not a bad trade for 2 reasons: 1) We would of lost Foulke anyway so we would be in the same boat regardless. 2) We got Neil Cotts out of it, who will settle down to be solid out of the pen again and will end up being a good starter for us in the future, hopefully this next spring. Koch might suck but in the big picture this trade won't turn out to be so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Sorry to call you out on this but the Foulke trade is still not a bad trade for 2 reasons: 1) We would of lost Foulke anyway so we would be in the same boat regardless. 2) We got Neil Cotts out of it, who will settle down to be solid out of the pen again and will end up being a good starter for us in the future, hopefully this next spring. Koch might suck but in the big picture this trade won't turn out to be so bad. I will never understand why we would have not been able to resign foulke he makes 2.5 million less than koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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