winninguglyin83 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 another start, another solid performance by the guy who is becoming a fixture in the Mets' rotation. Matt Ginter 7 2/3, 5 hits, 1 earned run, left with 2-1 lead against the Twinkies. Timo, Timo, Timo Evidently this Rick Peterson guy really is a good pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 another start, another solid performance by the guy who is becoming a fixture in the Mets' rotation. Matt Ginter 7 2/3, 5 hits, 1 earned run, left with 2-1 lead against the Twinkies. Timo, Timo, Timo Evidently this Rick Peterson guy really is a good pitching coach. It's beginning to look like Peterson has had a lot to do with the success of the A's big 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I still think Ginter is pitching way above himself though. Still Peterson is probably one of the best if not the best pitching coaches in the game today. But I'm very happy we hav Coop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 another start, another solid performance by the guy who is becoming a fixture in the Mets' rotation. Matt Ginter 7 2/3, 5 hits, 1 earned run, left with 2-1 lead against the Twinkies. Timo, Timo, Timo Evidently this Rick Peterson guy really is a good pitching coach. Hindsight is always 20/20... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Another case of giving up on a guy too soon? If Ginter is pitching like this a month from now i'm gonna be pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Timo Freaking Perez? Although I admit Ginter was a bust for the Sox, this really was a stupid move by KW...And considering how badly we need a 5th at this point, this just makes it look worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 another start, another solid performance by the guy who is becoming a fixture in the Mets' rotation. Matt Ginter 7 2/3, 5 hits, 1 earned run, left with 2-1 lead against the Twinkies. Timo, Timo, Timo Evidently this Rick Peterson guy really is a good pitching coach. Peterson is one of the best pitching coaches in the game today. He is responsible for much of the A's big three success. Ginter had some talent, but I wouldn't make too much of one game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Peterson is one of the best pitching coaches in the game today. He is responsible for much of the A's big three success. Ginter had some talent, but I wouldn't make too much of one game. Hasn't been just one game, I believe he's done it over 4 or 5 starts... 33 innings, 2.43 era in 6 starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 the mistake with Ginter was not settling on a role with him. he closed. He started. He was a set-up guy. He started. He mopped up. He closed. Art Howe said: Young man you're a starter. Gave him some confidence. Peterson smoothed out a flaw. And the Mets stole a guy with a good arm. No doubt he needed a change of scenery. But we needed to get more than a guy who will NEVER be more than a fifth outfielder/ pinch hitter. Soon they will trade Rauch -- and he'll go somewhere else and make us look bad, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyw41 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Timo Freaking Perez? Although I admit Ginter was a bust for the Sox, this really was a stupid move by KW...And considering how badly we need a 5th at this point, this just makes it look worse. Sour Grapes. Ginter didn't have a role in this organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 A change of scenery helped Loaiza and Schoe didn't it? I am neither one's last team/fans thought they were capable of doing what they've been doing either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Timo Freaking Perez? Although I admit Ginter was a bust for the Sox, this really was a stupid move by KW...And considering how badly we need a 5th at this point, this just makes it look worse. I don't remember anyone giving a s*** when the move happened. Why complain now. We have other prospects that were better options than Ginter, and don't forget he moved to another league. Let's see if he keeps it up, and even if he does, that doesn't mean he would for us. People, stop complaining just to hear yourselves talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I don't remember anyone giving a s*** when the move happened. Why complain now. We have other prospects that were better options than Ginter, and don't forget he moved to another league. Let's see if he keeps it up, and even if he does, that doesn't mean he would for us. People, stop complaining just to hear yourselves talk. I agree. Plus, it isn't like Timo has been horrible for us. He's actually had a couple of clutch hits IIRC, one coming against Anahiem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Ginter was out of options, if he wasn't traded he'd be claimed of waviers. So he was gone either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Another case of giving up on a guy too soon? If Ginter is pitching like this a month from now i'm gonna be pissed. It cracks me up when this stuff happens. Ginter wasn't going to make this team, and even if he did, they were grooming him to close or set up out of the pen. Also remember how great Josh Fogg was for the first 3 months with the Pirates? What is he doing now? It is a much easier transition to make for an AL pitcher to go to the NL than vice versa. At least wait and see if Ginter crashes back to earth before annointing him Cy Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 It cracks me up when this stuff happens. Ginter wasn't going to make this team, and even if he did, they were grooming him to close or set up out of the pen. Also remember how great Josh Fogg was for the first 3 months with the Pirates? What is he doing now? It is a much easier transition to make for an AL pitcher to go to the NL than vice versa. At least wait and see if Ginter crashes back to earth before annointing him Cy Young. Like I said. If he's pitching like this a month from now i'll be pissed. Maybe it's just me. But, I hate when guys suck total ass for us, then get traded and become productive. It just annoys me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Another case of giving up on a guy too soon? If Ginter is pitching like this a month from now i'm gonna be pissed. What do his YTD stats look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 What do his YTD stats look like? In 5 starts for the Mets he has a 2.81 era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 It wouldn't be a problem if the Sox had ever given Ginter a legitimate look. And they had a solid option at the fifth starter. Heck, he's better than Adkins or Koch for that matter. Simply put, it was stupid to GIVE him away. Not saying he's going to win the Cy Young or even 15 games. But he's got a good arm. And the Sox mishandled him -- badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 It wouldn't be a problem if the Sox had ever given Ginter a legitimate look. And they had a solid option at the fifth starter. Heck, he's better than Adkins or Koch for that matter. Simply put, it was stupid to GIVE him away. Not saying he's going to win the Cy Young or even 15 games. But he's got a good arm. And the Sox mishandled him -- badly. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 OK guys. First answer me who should be left off of the roster pitching have made room for Ginter. Also who would be our back up CF since Timo wouldn't be here? What other LH bat would we have off of the bench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 OK guys. First answer me who should be left off of the roster pitching have made room for Ginter. Also who would be our back up CF since Timo wouldn't be here? What other LH bat would we have off of the bench? add to that the fact that Ginter didn't look like he was going to make an impact in ST. That's right he was here in ST. None of you were complaining about his mishandling then. None of you were suggesting that he should be considered for the 5th starter spot. He wasn't likely to make this team in any form out of camp. He was traded for a guy who clearly was going to make the club, and fill a definite role, I don't see the point in complaining about it now. /I hate Timo too. So that should make my responce even more meaningful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 add to that the fact that Ginter didn't look like he was going to make an impact in ST. That's right he was here in ST. None of you were complaining about his mishandling then. None of you were suggesting that he should be considered for the 5th starter spot. He wasn't likely to make this team in any form out of camp. He was traded for a guy who clearly was going to make the club, and fill a definite role, I don't see the point in complaining about it now. /I hate Timo too. So that should make my responce even more meaningful. I see what you're sayin. And you're right. Nobody complained at the time. Nobody complained because Ginter never did anything for us. But was Ginter the problem? Or is our organazation the problem? Do we mishandle young pitchers? Kip Wells has become a solid starter for the Pirates. Rocky Biddle has become a good closer for the Expos. Now it looks as if Matt Ginter will become a solid starter for the Mets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I'm not surprised that he got straightened out with the Mets and Peterson. Rick was the same guy that was around when we had a great pitching staff in the early 90's if I am not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Kip Wells has become a solid starter for the Pirates. Kip was pretty good when he came up for a cup of coffee back in 99. He was only 22, though, and still had to learn how to pitch in the big leagues. The next two years he really struggled with his control. He did show flashes of dominance however. He had a very high WHIP, and struggled to avoid the big innnigs. Take a look at his WHIP's over the years. 1.35 when he came up for a cup of coffee. Then upto 1.8, and 1.5 the next two years. It wasn't until he got to Pittsburgh that he was able to avoid the walks. And not Until last season that he had a season with less hits than innings pitched. He's not doing all that well this year. He's never going to be an ace. Pitching Year Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 1999 CHA 7 7 4 1 0 0 0 35.2 33 17 16 2 15 29 4.04 1.35 .248 2000 CHA 20 20 6 9 0 0 0 98.2 126 76 66 15 58 71 6.02 1.86 .312 2001 CHA 40 20 10 11 0 0 0 133.1 145 80 71 14 61 99 4.79 1.54 .281 2002 PIT 33 33 12 14 0 1 1 198.1 197 92 79 21 71 134 3.58 1.35 .261 2003 PIT 31 31 10 9 0 1 0 197.1 171 77 72 24 76 147 3.28 1.25 .233 2004 PIT 12 12 3 4 0 0 0 67.2 70 35 34 8 39 62 4.52 1.61 .266 Career 143 123 45 48 0 2 1 731.0 742 377 338 84 320 542 4.16 1.45 .264 Rocky Biddle has become a good closer for the Expos. Biddle has actually performed worse on the Expos than he did in Chicago. Take a look at his numbers in 2002 vs. 2003. He's better in every category but saves in 2002. Your perception is just that they truned him into a good pitcher because he accumulated 34 saves. He also had 7 blown saves and 8 losses. I'm not going to even get into how bad he's been this year. Pitching Year Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 2000 CHA 4 4 1 2 0 0 0 22.2 31 25 21 5 8 7 8.34 1.72 .326 2001 CHA 30 21 7 8 0 0 0 128.2 137 87 77 16 52 85 5.39 1.47 .272 2002 CHA 44 7 3 4 1 0 0 77.2 72 42 35 13 39 64 4.06 1.43 .245 2003 MON 73 0 5 8 34 0 0 71.2 71 43 37 10 40 54 4.65 1.55 .254 2004 MON 23 0 0 4 11 0 0 19.2 29 20 16 6 5 10 7.32 1.73 .337 Career 174 32 16 26 46 0 0 320.1 340 217 186 50 144 220 5.23 1.51 .270 Now it looks as if Matt Ginter will become a solid starter for the Mets. This is the only one you have an argument on. He obviosly didn't have a position with the white sox. He was up and down in 2000-02, but only saw 3.1 innings last season. The sox haven't had him in as a starter since 2000 in B'ham, when they called him up, and sent him to the pen, they seemed to have forgotten that he was at one point a #1 pick and a highly thought of prospect. He obviously didn't impress the right people at the right times in this organization, but I'm not going to sit here and cry about it. The fact is he most likely wouldn't have made this team out of ST, and we traded him for a guy who was absolutely going to make the team and contribute. It would be pretty tough to send a guy back to charlotte for his 4th straight season. Ever since his first call-up he seemed to be being groomed for a spot in the pen. He would have been beat out for a job by Cotts and Adkins for the last spot this season again. The sox did the right thing and gave hima chance to comtribute somewhere, who saw more in him than we did. In return they got a guy fills a role. We pulled the same type of trade with Colorado. A guy who was stalled in one system get picked up by another and thrives. -- All that being said, Ginter's only pitched 5 games. Give it time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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