striker Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran. Sox in '05 Harris 2B Uribe SS Beltran CF Thomas DH Lee LF Kornerko 1B Bochard RF Crede 3B Olivo C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran. Sox in '05 Harris 2B Uribe SS Beltran CF Thomas DH Lee LF Kornerko 1B Bochard RF Crede 3B Olivo C Ok, The sox will never get beltran. Boras is his agent and he is goign to New York. That ends that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Why continue to support a team that cannot retain it's best players? We're no better than Montreal in that regard. and why try to please a group of fans who don't support you? it goes both ways and always will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 So this has got me thinking. Of all the contending teams in MLB, which are the most likely to rent Maggs? I think the Mets are one team. Maggs for Leiter? The Brewers need outfielding, but they're not really contending. They might toss him in on a Sheets trade, ya never know. It's tough. I don't think we can get much in a trade for Maggs. A contender won't want to give away pitching. A seller won't want to rent a player. I guess we're "stuck" with him for the year. The Sox will not trade Maggs unless they fall out of the playoff hunt in the next 30 days. No trading maggs. Hell maggs won't be back until just before the deadline. Maggs will not be traded. Think this year... Win this year... worry about this year. f*** next year, that will take care of itself. Maggs stays, we will get a fifth starter and we will get more bullpen help. it WILL happen if we are at the top of the division by the trade deadline. As far as Maggs going to the lowest payroll team in MLB (brewers) AHHH I don't think so. Remember he is making 14 million this year. that means the brewers would need to pick up at least 5 million by the end of July, for a player they don't even know is fully healthy. makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 They're better off getting draft choices than trading Maggs. If he walks after this year, you've got two guys likely ready to step in at OF, and one guy coming quickly (Anderson). Right now, the Sox are in addition mode, not subtraction. The Alomar/Everett trades didn't happen until late June or early July, there is still time. Players become available all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 you don't trade Ordonez. keep him and let him walk at the end of the year. it sucks, but no way in hell is Ordonez worth 5-6 years $10-$12 a year. #1, because he hasn't necessarily gotten better over the years (I'm not just talking about numbers either) #2, Whether we like it or not, our payroll is $60 million, which I think is pretty damn fair considering the half-assed support we fans give to them. Throw $12 mill year at one guy over the course of 5 years and let's see how people will react to it a year or two from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 We won't be trading Maggs, found this from the Newark Stark Ledger, "As for Magglio Ordonez, who is on the disabled list, an American League official said the White Sox are more interested in acquiring players than trading them. They are a half-game behind the Twins in the AL Central, and are looking for pitching." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 makes no sense. That was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation. With a self imposed payroll of 60 Million, Sox can't afford to field a balanced team with 25% going to one man. Magglio's not an ace pitcher, or Barry Bonds; his asking price of 14 million for 5 years might settle in New York (were money is freely spent), but for the White Sox this sort of contract is crippling to our future I was just wondering... Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions. The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands. Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere. Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy. I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down. Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Well we've saw this coming all along; however, it sucks to really start to see it being confirmed. I'm glad we have a lot of up and coming OF talent in our minor league system. However, it is pretty disheartening that we can't keep solid players like Mags, that began in the organization. I just hope if Mags doesn't come back, we end up becoming spenders on someone else this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 I was just wondering... Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions. The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands. Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere. Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy. I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down. Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. Look, I don't have inside information, never intended to sound as if I did. When I created the post I was anticipating ranting from fans : f*** JR, SOX CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT MAGGS For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation was merely my attempt to persuade those who continue to blame JR for his "cheapness" You've been here long enough where it seems some take a situation and put a extremely negative spin on it. My intentions were to eliminate this arguments (of not paying 14 million for Maggs) by suggesting within the range of a 60 million dollar payroll, signing him leaves us no flexible room to properly fill other holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Why continue to support a team that cannot retain it's best players? We're no better than Montreal in that regard. Why pay Maggs more than 12 million? Look at some other teams that handed out big contracts - Texas with A-Rod (Yeah, that worked out.), Boston with Manny (They have a lot of money, so bad example.) Point being, screw it - we tried to be reasonable, but 14 million is beyond reasonable. He doesn't deserve 14 million per year, and we can go out and get two/three more guys who can contribute to this team. Not to mention Jeremy Reed and Joe Borchard, both who can potentially replace Mags. This is really a sad day - my opinion of Maggs just sorely changed. He obviously DOESN'T want to be here, which, in case, I really don't want a guy here who is just about the money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I just wanted to add that even if JR increases payroll to, dare I say 75 million or more than that, Mags still doesn't deserve a 14 million dollar contract... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 This is really a sad day - my opinion of Maggs just sorely changed. He obviously DOESN'T want to be here, which, in case, I really don't want a guy here who is just about the money... Hope his teammates don't hold that same belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I'd rather have my two sandwich picks and a shot at the division than a White Flag trade, which is what shipping away Maggs would be. I'd rather have Maggs than 2 sandwich picks; especially with the way the Sox draft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 f*** Magglio, I don't even want him anymore. The line up doesn't seem to be missing him either. I say good riddance. Trade him for some pitching, possibly Randy Johnson and bring up Borchard or Reed. We could use a Lefthanded bat in the lineup anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation Fans, please understand we cannot afford to compete for a World Series. Enjoy a play off run now and then. If you want the resources ($85,000,000) to compete for a WS, please move to the north side. We want players who are competitive on the field, but not at negotiating a contract. We want players who will not settle for second place, unless it is money. Enjoy a lifetime of 2nd place finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 O-E-O - Bor-chard-Joe? O-E-O - Jerem - blah. O-E-O Ahh enough... This is the worst time for this to come out. Let's hope that Ozzie is able to keep the players all on the same page, etc. etc. Also - like the article mentions, this really puts Kenny in a tough spot. He knows his RFer is gone at years end, yet he wants to improve the team now. Yet he doesn't want to trade away potential replacements for next year. Best of luck Ozzie. Best of luck Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Minnesota wins this division without $85 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 you don't trade Ordonez. keep him and let him walk at the end of the year. it sucks, but no way in hell is Ordonez worth 5-6 years $10-$12 a year. #1, because he hasn't necessarily gotten better over the years (I'm not just talking about numbers either) #2, Whether we like it or not, our payroll is $60 million, which I think is pretty damn fair considering the half-assed support we fans give to them. Throw $12 mill year at one guy over the course of 5 years and let's see how people will react to it a year or two from now. Wrong!!!! At the current market, that is what Ordonez does deserve that kind of money. His numbers compare favorably with those of Vlad, Beltran, Sosa, Shawn Green, Griffey, etc., why shouldn't he get paid like them??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Fans, please understand we cannot afford to compete for a World Series. Enjoy a play off run now and then. If you want the resources ($85,000,000) to compete for a WS, please move to the north side. We want players who are competitive on the field, but not at negotiating a contract. We want players who will not settle for second place, unless it is money. Enjoy a lifetime of 2nd place finishes. There's spending money, and there's spending money wisely. If I'm not mistaken, Vlad Guerrero makes right around 14 million a year. Now, I personally don't think Maggs is worth Vlad Guerrero type money, considering Vlad puts up better numbers, is younger, is better defensively, is better on the basepaths. As stated in another thread, Bobby Abreu puts up similar numbers to Maggs, yet is only making 10 million or so a year. Understand this - payroll WILL be raised if we generate some extra revenue (post-season). Possibly to 75 million or there-abouts. So if we gave Maggs what he wanted, he would be taking up roughly 1/5th of our salary. With Maggs, Koch, and Valentin coming off the books this winter, that is right around 25 million spending money, in what is considered to be one of the better pitching free agent classes. Pitching wins. Pitching wins. Did I say pitching wins? We can possibly add TWO bonafied starters to this club without keeping Maggs. Now, a rotation of Buerhle-Garland-Loaiza-FA1-FA2, among possibilities including Freddy Garcia, Barry Zito, and Matt Morris (IIRC, just throwing names out there) would be awesome, especially in the weak AL Central. Like I said - you don't just give away money. We have two guys in AAA that by next year, IMHO, should be more than ready to take the spot, at a lot less of a price, and can do things (potentially), maybe not as good as Maggs, but near his production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Wrong!!!! At the current market, that is what Ordonez does deserve that kind of money. His numbers compare favorably with those of Vlad, Beltran, Sosa, Shawn Green, Griffey, etc., why shouldn't he get paid like them??? Oh yeah? Let's compare: Now - Im comparing Magglio Ordonez and Vladimir Guerrero, and take the fact that Vlad played on a pretty bad team in Montreal, yet put up these great numbers (2003): Average: Vlad: .330 Maggs: .317 Vlad wins. OBP: Vlad: .426 Maggs: .380 Vlad wins. RBIs Vlad: 79 (In about 200 less ABs than Maggs) Maggs: 99 Maggs wins (But it's a skewed win.) HRs Vlad: 25 Maggs: 29 Maggs wins, but again, skewed. Now Vlad is on a much better team with Anahiem, and right now he is hitting .345, with 15 HRs and 51 RBIs. Don't try telling me Maggs is 'comparable' to Vlad - not even close. I'd take Vlad seven days a week and twice on Sunday... Point is, Maggs not worth 14 million a year. EDIT: For the above comparison, I guess I'd have to say all of the catagories are skewed in a way, because Vlad had 200 less ABs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran. Sox in '05 Harris 2B Uribe SS Beltran CF Thomas DH Lee LF Kornerko 1B Bochard RF Crede 3B Olivo C Why would KC trade Beltran to us? What do we have that they want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Why would KC trade Beltran to us? What do we have that they want? A good team playing for the division in June! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I was just wondering... Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions. The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands. Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere. Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy. I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down. Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. I do. But what that has to do with anything I fail to understand. And at this point they (the Sox) have not chosen not to meet anything. All we know is that they stopped talking. Maybe to concentrate on the season at hand..? Naaa.. that's a crazy idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.