JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 What amazes me is that last yr's World Series team refuses to add 5 mil to it's budget to get Beltran. The biggest snag in the Beltran to Marlins deal is that Florida wants KC to pick up some of Beltran's 9 mil salary this yr. That leaves me to look at the Marlin attendance this year: 20th. Why is there baseball in Miami? The best they can do is 20th after Beckett pitches phenomenally in the post season? Either move that franchise or close it down. It's a waste of space. The White SOX are in 1st place & they are slowly closing in on the Royals for #1 in attendance in the ALC. The Cub series should get them there. They still have some high draws left in the 2nd 1/2 so they could even beat the Marlins when it's all said & done! Our beloved White SOX out-drawing the World Series champions! They should be ashamed in Florida. Beltran is an excellent case study for what has happened in MLB to the small-mid rev teams. Restricted FA now means you will have to pay a good hitter an avg of 8 mil & a good pitcher an avg of 6 mil. Is it any wonder that the payrolls of the ALC are converging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Why would any team allot 60% for pitching and 40% for hitting? On a 25 man roster, less than half are pitchers, and a handful of them are short-relief, non-closer pitchers--some of the cheapest players in baseball. You have 8 hitters that start and play everyday(9 if your an AL team), and thus command more money. I would think the percentages would be the other way around. What the last 4 yrs have shown is that the quality of a hitter in the SOX lineup & playing at the Cell does not need to be great for success. Likewise the last 4 yrs have shown that the quality of a pitcher at the Cell has to be great for success. The 5th starter experiment has proving this. The SOX have less than 25% win rate with a 5th starter over the last 5 yrs! I've already pointed out to you that the SOX are spending 25 mil on the pitching staff & that's with bargains at #2, #3, & #4. The avg cost for a #1 = 9 mil, #2 = 6 mil, #3 = 5 mil, #4 = 4 mil, #5 = 2 mil. Grant it the NYY's skew the avg but that comes to 26 mil! The avg cost for relief is #CL = 5 mil, #SU = 4 mil, #LR = 3 mil, #LHS = 2 mil, #RHS = 1 mil. That comes to 16 mil because you need 2 long relief guys. Avg total for pitchers: 42 mil. The SOX are spending 12 mil on their rotation this year & about 12 mil in the pen. That's a total of 24 mil. Well below the avg. Which is why they weren't expected to be this good. 40 mil is going to the top 5 hitters & Maggs is getting nearly double what any of the other 4 are making. Kenny lost 3 mil on Hairston & Vic. So even with a payroll of 69 mil, when you subtract Maggs, Jerry, & Vic that drops to 51 mil. The SOX still want to add another starter & that's likely to cost at least 3 mil. So even going the cheapest route possible the SOX will still wind up spending at least 27 mil on arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 FOR the JR knockers, The SOX are 2nd in attendance in the ALC (behind KC) & yet 1st in player salaries: SOX 69 mil (21.9K) MIN 54 mil (20.5K) DET 50 mil (20.5K) KCR 48 mil (22.4K) CLE 35 mil (20.0K) Unfortunately for the SOX 18 mil is either on the DL or gawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 After reading a few other websites, Magg's may not be as valuable as he thinks. Besides for Beltran, another switch hitting outfielder is supposed to be a free-agent... Lance Berkman. In many teams eyes, Maggs will be the 3rd best of on the market, not as great of a position as he would like. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 After reading a few other websites, Magg's may not be as valuable as he thinks. Besides for Beltran, another switch hitting outfielder is supposed to be a free-agent... Lance Berkman. In many teams eyes, Maggs will be the 3rd best of on the market, not as great of a position as he would like. SB Which is why he's an arse-hole for saying that once he goes to FA he will never be back with the SOX. :fyou Maggs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I've already pointed out to you that the SOX are spending 25 mil on the pitching staff & that's with bargains at #2, #3, & #4. The avg cost for a #1 = 9 mil, #2 = 6 mil, #3 = 5 mil, #4 = 4 mil, #5 = 2 mil. Grant it the NYY's skew the avg but that comes to 26 mil! I don't know where you're getting these figures. Based on 2004 salaries, the average cost for a #1 starter is 6.6 million. Take out the Yankees and Red Sox, and the number drops to under 6 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I don't know where you're getting these figures. Based on 2004 salaries, the average cost for a #1 starter is 6.6 million. Take out the Yankees and Red Sox, and the number drops to under 6 million. Perhaps avg isn't the right word. Baseball is not a nice linear relationship between payrolls & teams. It's more like a bell curve where there are the wealthiest & then the poorest & then the middle class. Norm might be a better word. Because it's all about what winning teams are paying for their rotations in the normal case. Oakland is not a normal case. Likewise, KW still wants to shore up the bullpen & acquire Garcia. If he does that before the trade deadline that will likely add 7 mil more to the payroll. Bringing the total payout for pitchers to 31 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Which is why he's an arse-hole for saying that once he goes to FA he will never be back with the SOX. :fyou Maggs! And where did he say that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 And where did he say that.. I concur...Show me where Mags said that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I concur...Show me where Mags said that! Bla.. don't bother. This place is raging with the stinky stuff lately.. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 :fyou to Mags for also saying he hates Children and thinks America sucks! Since we're allowed to make things up to prove our points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 :fyou to Mags for also saying he hates Children and thinks America sucks! Since we're allowed to make things up to prove our points He said it! It was probably a quote in the Cubune. I'm looking for a link reference now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 :fyou to Mags for also saying he hates Children and thinks America sucks! Since we're allowed to make things up to prove our points See also Ribbies signature... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 :fyou to Mags for also saying he hates Children and thinks America sucks! Since we're allowed to make things up to prove our points Did you see Maggs knock that 4-year old out of the way in Texas to get a foul ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Cut that crap out! You guys read the papers. Somebody here must have read the same thing I did. It was a question directed to Maggs & his agent on the possibility of the SOX signing him as a free agent. He said never. I'm still looking for a link .. but you know the Cheapune doesn't save their columns that far back. But here's the latest: http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb...s_mlb&fext=.jsp According to commentary from Harold Reynolds on ESPN's "Baseball Tonight" on Thursday, the White Sox eventually will add Kansas City center fielder Carlos Beltran to their roster. With tampering violations in mind, nobody with the White Sox could talk directly about Beltran. I'll say one thing for Kenny Williams. His job as WHITE SOX GM has certainly given baseball a shot in the arm in the rumor dept. I think we all can agree there is NO WAY the SOX will keep both Beltran & Maggs next yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Cut that crap out! You guys read the papers. Somebody here must have read the same thing I did. It was a question directed to Maggs & his agent on the possibility of the SOX signing him as a free agent. He said never. I read the papers daily... he never said it. Also, the Trib archives for moons and moons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I read the papers daily... he never said it. Also, the Trib archives for moons and moons. I think it was in an article that featured 58/4. In any case the 70/5 is an interesting story because Heyman is the guy who broke the story on the A-Rod-Maggs-Garciaparra deal & all of that turned out to be true. Maggs nor his agent has publicly denied the offer. What they have denied is that Maggs expressed a desire to play for the Mets above any other team. That's expected from a greedy bugger seeking to get all he can in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...l=cs-columnists 1) How badly does Ordonez want to stay with the White Sox? This is the hardest to answer. He says he wants to stay in Chicago, and I believe him, because over the years he's proven to be a straight shooter. But Ordonez doesn't spend his off-seasons in Chicago, and a casualty of his quiet nature is that he hasn't created any relationships with companies who might want him to stay. If Ordonez is determined to test the open market, then it stands to reason his love for the White Sox has a dollar figure on it. Would he accept $1 million less to stay? $5 million? Only Ordonez and his agent know for sure. 2) Are there any teams out there willing to pay Ordonez more than the Sox? Yes. Look at ANA over Colon. 3) Will the Jerry Reinsdorf-owned White Sox ever give any player a contract worth $60 to $70 million? No. The decisions the organization has made over the last few years are based on the fact that the Sox don't produce enough revenue to compete for top free agents. ...and I'm guessing they don't even want to sign him for four years at $50 million. The Sox depend on two things to stay competitive: A minor-league system that produces cheap talent, and wonderful scouts who find undervalued gems buried on other team's rosters. If you want to reply on the Magglio issue: [email protected] When I find the evidence that he said the SOX have no chance to sign him as a free agent I expect you all to salute him with a finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Which is why he's an arse-hole for saying that once he goes to FA he will never be back with the SOX. :fyou Maggs! And where did he say this....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 We'll be waiting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 When I find the evidence that he said the SOX have no chance to sign him as a free agent I expect you all to salute him with a finger. I wouldn't do this. I leave that for the ignorant baby posters. P.S.. can we get a smiley holding a mirror..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 http://excite.rototimes.com/index.php?spor...searchname=2385 The Daily Southtown reports that Magglio Ordonez (OF) CWS confirmed that contract negotiations with the White Sox have broken off. A source told the paper that, "Unless there's a big change of heart, and a change of heart on both sides, then Magglio will walk in the offseason. Once he becomes a free agent, there's almost no chance that the Sox will get him back. They know that and they are preparing for that." Now it's not the exact quote as him saying never but it sure is supportive of that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 http://excite.rototimes.com/index.php?spor...searchname=2385 The Daily Southtown reports that Magglio Ordonez (OF) CWS confirmed that contract negotiations with the White Sox have broken off. A source told the paper that, "Unless there's a big change of heart, and a change of heart on both sides, then Magglio will walk in the offseason. Once he becomes a free agent, there's almost no chance that the Sox will get him back. They know that and they are preparing for that." Now it's not the exact quote as him saying never but it sure is supportive of that fact. No.. it says the Sox know they can't get him back.. not that Magglio said that. Try again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:qUACk5p...Bcontract&hl=en Feb 01, 2004 - 11:00 pm White Sox GM Ken Williams recently asked Magglio Ordonez if he was interested in discussing a contract extension and was told the outfielder wants to become a free agent. Magglio Ordonez told the White Sox that he intends to play out his contract and test the free agent market after the season, according to the Daily Southtown. White Sox | Ordonez Would Like To Stay In Chicago - from www.KFFL.com Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:19:06 -0800 The Daily Herald reports during an interview with Spanish-speaking reporters and MLB.com at the Caribbean Series on Wednesday, Feb. 5 "I want a five- or six-year contract so that I can relax and be in one place for a long time,'' Ordonez said. "I think I have market value similar to that of Vladimir and Tejada,'' said Ordonez, apparently not bummed about his proposed role in the aborted Nomar Garciaparra trade. "It could be even more if you take into account that the market is going up again. I want a five- or six-year contract so I can relax and be in one place for a long time. More evidence of Maggs greedy intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 How is wanting to test free agency being greedy...? And all he's done to this point is comment about it. What's your problem with Maggs..? He's by far the most social player on this team right now, and caters to the fans more than anyone else. Maybe if the Sox weren't so known for screwing their faithful players he wouldn't be thinking about FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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