Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 When I hear rumors with the potential of Ordonez for Mulder my eyes grow big! whoa whoa whoa That's a new one that I don't think any of us have heard. If an offer like that was on the table, I think a lot of people here would agree that you would have to go for it. Plus, the 70/5 offer was never made, according to Maggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Fine. Maintain your lovefest with Magglio then. I have to say if I were a STL fan I just heard that Pujols' signing means Renteria &/or Morris will be gone I'd look less favorably on him. But we know SOX fans are different. I think Kenny should just hit the pause button & keep talking to teams. When I hear rumors with the potential of Ordonez for Mulder my eyes grow big! These kind of trades make sense for contenders. Trading valuable commodities in the game of Moneyball to fill glaring holes. If anything has come out of the 70/5 offer it's that Maggs is on the defensive now. Heyman has credibility to where Maggs referring to some parts of the report as a lie do not discredit the offer. It's in the minds of the fans & the public just like the Colon offer was. That can only help the SOX. I don't have a "lovefest" (what the hell is that anyway..?) for Magglio. I simply choose not to blame him for the salaries that are being paid to MLB players. Who in the hell put the idea into these guys heads that they could possibly make that much..? Yet fault them for wanting to get paid that much..? Fault him for wanting to test the market..? Fault him for wanting to look out for himself.. and his families future..? You can't possibly be serious.. :headshake But you keep on kneeling to the media and hanging on their every word... I'm sure there's a spare pair of pads around here somewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 whoa whoa whoa That's a new one that I don't think any of us have heard. If an offer like that was on the table, I think a lot of people here would agree that you would have to go for it. Plus, the 70/5 offer was never made, according to Maggs. Believe what you want. Maggs never denied the offer. He just denied the statement that he wanted to play for the Mets. Heyman's credibility is strong. http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/co...ki/x13-lad1.htm This is one of two articles I found today in relation to the A's offering either Mulder or Zito for a proven bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 A New York newspaper reported two weeks ago that Ordonez was offered a five-year, $70 million deal — the contract Ordonez was seeking last winter. Ordonez called the newspaper report "a lie." According to the source, Ordonez was 100 percent correct in that assessment, because the Sox never put that type of offer on the table. The source said the Sox and Ordonez's representatives couldn't even come to an agreement on the number of years on a deal, let alone get into the financial aspect. That's from the original source that this whole topic started from. And you realize that your information regarding the A's offering either Mulder or Zito for a proven bat. Is from May 13th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Steff, there are several players that have accepted less $ to stay with their home team or go to the team of their choice. Thome, Dye, Sweeney, Hunter, Giles, Hudson, Mulder, Zito just to name a few. Thome offered the snubs a sweet 65 mil deal because that was the team of his choice. When the snubs said no thank you he signed w Philly for 87 mil. So your suggestion that Maggs wanting to milk FA for every dollar he can get is not greed driven is ridiculous. Now if you're trying to say greed is good. Then just say it, but don't try to paint it as anything other than what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Steff, there are several players that have accepted less $ to stay with their home team or go to the team of their choice. Thome, Dye, Sweeney, Hunter, Giles, Hudson, Mulder, Zito just to name a few. Thome offered the snubs a sweet 65 mil deal because that was the team of his choice. When the snubs said no thank you he signed w Philly for 87 mil. So your suggestion that Maggs wanting to milk FA for every dollar he can get is not greed driven is ridiculous. Now if you're trying to say greed is good. Then just say it, but don't try to paint it as anything other than what it is. Obviously you don't know the meaning of agree to disagree. :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 That's from the original source that this whole topic started from. And you realize that your information regarding Is from May 13th? Without a link that source is meaningless. I have not seen one reference in any major media source that dis-credits the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/co...ki/x13-lad1.htm This is one of two articles I found today in relation to the A's offering either Mulder or Zito for a proven bat. It matters not that it was dated May 13th. What matters is not much has changed offensively for the A's. A's OPS 796, OPS vs 732; SOX OPS 838, OPS vs 755; NYY OPS 813, OPS vs 713; BOS OPS 797, OPS vs 710; The A's are the weakest hitting team of the top 4 in AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 That's from the original source that this whole topic started from. And you realize that your information regarding Is from May 13th? That article is the authors idea it never says the a's are willing to trade mulder. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Oye ve.. Now the Sox are going to trade the A's... a team they can barely beat as it is... their best (arguably) offensive machine..? Did you hit your head on something Jugger..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Without a link that source is meaningless. I have not seen one reference in any major media source that dis-credits the offer. http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/ds.../pro/111sd1.htm Happy? It's the basis link for this entire discussion. Only one source claimed that Maggs had turned down the 70/5 deal and I believe that was the same source that said Prior needed Tommy John surgery in April. No other media source has reported him turning down a 70/5 deal because no other media source reports a 70/5 deal BEING OFFERED. And the article date matters a bit. Back in May, the A's were struggling and weren't winning games. With the same formula, they're winning. It would make them less inclined to look for help, so it would appear. And as Rowand said, that article is pure speculation on the part of the author. The only possible bastion of reality in it is that "K-Will" said that he's dreaming big and the thought may have entered his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 That article is the authors idea it never says the a's are willing to trade mulder. :headshake The article CLEARY states that the A's may have no choice. But fine since you are going to be anal about it, here's the Zito article. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/athletics/rumors.html I've grown tired & bored in this useless debate. Go kiss Maggs butt for all I care. If it's going to cost more that 50/5 & 20/5 to keep him then I say good ridance. Now those of you that disagree with that let's just agree to disagree. Before the year is over we'll know Maggs true intentions & his true colors. I guess another thing we might disagree on is whether to try & sign Maggs now or wait another month. That's enough. I'm outta this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 The article CLEARY states that the A's may have no choice. But fine since you are going to be anal about it, here's the Zito article. http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/athletics/rumors.html That article might be more reliable. Zito has always been mentioned around the trade deadline and seems the most likely of the big 3 to get traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 23 pages of speculation surrounding a guy who in February said he wanted to test the free-agent waters. :headshake What else is new here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I've grown tired & bored in this useless debate. Go kiss Maggs butt for all I care. If it's going to cost more that 50/5 & 20/5 to keep him then I say good ridance. I actually agree with this point. I was arguing over whether that offer had been made or not. It was suspicious when the rumor came out that he had rejected the 50/5&20/5 because it had sounded like that was exactly the deal he had wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 23 pages of speculation surrounding a guy who in February said he wanted to test the free-agent waters. :headshake What else is new here? Dewey beats Truman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Alright Tex.. I know he's a large man.. I've never been in the locker room, I'll take your word for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 . If he goes into FA & accepts less but doesn't sign with the SOX he's an arse-hole. If he goes into FA & accepts more but doesn't sign with the SOX he's just another greedy player. Can we at least agree on that? I'll agree with one, not with two. A man has a responsibility to his family. Why should a guy accept less money to stay with a company? Would you want a player who is so uncompetitive he will accept less? Out of loyalty? To the fans? Are these the same fans that have been arguing he isn't worth it? I don't think anyone is greedy in wanting to make more for himself and his family. This by all accounts will be his last big contract, he's setting up his future grandkids and their families. I would want that for my family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Steff, there are several players that have accepted less $ to stay with their home team or go to the team of their choice. Thome, Dye, Sweeney, Hunter, Giles, Hudson, Mulder, Zito just to name a few. Thome offered the snubs a sweet 65 mil deal because that was the team of his choice. When the snubs said no thank you he signed w Philly for 87 mil. So your suggestion that Maggs wanting to milk FA for every dollar he can get is not greed driven is ridiculous. Now if you're trying to say greed is good. Then just say it, but don't try to paint it as anything other than what it is. Nice example. So anyone that negotiates their best possible deal is greedy? I guess every person I ever hired was greedy, because none of them said ay me less than you can. Here's an example: John F. Kennedy donated all of his Senate and Presidential salaries to charity. Is every other politician greedy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Comparatively speaking Renteria will be looking for Tejada $ Renteria is a HUGELY overrated player, offensively AND defensively. Anybody who will pay him or Cabrera more than 5-6 Mill per is a moron. 12 Mill? Should be fired on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am not back in this thread. But I did want to say thanks to Steff. Without her challenge I would not have found ProSportsDaily.com & this site rocks! Tex, you are comparing apples to oranges like always. You can not compare what many of us consider one of the best jobs in the world to an ordinary job. Baseball players are both blessed & privledged to play the game. And making 50/5 & 20/5 blows your security argument out of the water. The money is the same it's just spread out longer. Plenty to go around for his family & his grand kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am not back in this thread. But I did want to say thanks to Steff. Without her challenge I would not have found ProSportsDaily.com & this site rocks! Which you still didn't prove.. But you're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 But I did want to say thanks to Steff. Without her challenge I would not have found ProSportsDaily.com & this site rocks! Which you still didn't prove.. But you're welcome. Hey!...I concurred... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Steff, you're wrong. The Herald, Southtown, Times, & Cubune do not have archives you can search past 30 days. So I can't find even a reference to the day the 58/4 offer was revealed. But I assure you his comment of either "never" or "no" in response to being asked whether he would sign as a free agent of the White SOX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am not back in this thread. But I did want to say thanks to Steff. Without her challenge I would not have found ProSportsDaily.com & this site rocks! Tex, you are comparing apples to oranges like always. You can not compare what many of us consider one of the best jobs in the world to an ordinary job. Baseball players are both blessed & privledged to play the game. And making 50/5 & 20/5 blows your security argument out of the water. The money is the same it's just spread out longer. Plenty to go around for his family & his grand kids. Defered money is never the same, it might also be more or less, depending on what is negotiated. If they offer zero interest he loses from inflation and whatever his investment might bring. I don't see how you can call someone greedy for negotiating his best contract. At what point is the man greedy? When he doesn't take the clubs first offer? Are the owners ever greedy? Would the owners be greedy in not taking their option on Frank at $11 million? Would Frank be greedy in accepting an offer from someone else at above his $8 mil option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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