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Disheartening Article: Magglios GAWN in 05.


Flash Tizzle

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I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran.

 

Sox in '05

 

Harris 2B

Uribe SS

Beltran CF

Thomas DH

Lee LF

Kornerko 1B

Bochard RF

Crede 3B

Olivo C

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I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran.

 

Sox in '05

 

Harris 2B

Uribe SS

Beltran CF

Thomas DH

Lee LF

Kornerko 1B

Bochard RF

Crede 3B

Olivo C

Ok, The sox will never get beltran. Boras is his agent and he is goign to New York. That ends that.

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Why continue to support a team that cannot retain it's best players? We're no better than Montreal in that regard.

and why try to please a group of fans who don't support you?

 

it goes both ways and always will.

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So this has got me thinking.  Of all the contending teams in MLB, which are the most likely to rent Maggs?

 

I think the Mets are one team.  Maggs for Leiter?

 

The Brewers need outfielding, but they're not really contending.  They might toss him in on a Sheets trade, ya never know.

 

It's tough.  I don't think we can get much in a trade for Maggs.  A contender won't want to give away pitching.  A seller won't want to rent a player.

 

I guess we're "stuck" with him for the year.

The Sox will not trade Maggs unless they fall out of the playoff hunt in the next 30 days. No trading maggs. Hell maggs won't be back until just before the deadline. Maggs will not be traded. Think this year... Win this year... worry about this year. f*** next year, that will take care of itself. Maggs stays, we will get a fifth starter and we will get more bullpen help. it WILL happen if we are at the top of the division by the trade deadline. As far as Maggs going to the lowest payroll team in MLB (brewers) AHHH I don't think so. Remember he is making 14 million this year. that means the brewers would need to pick up at least 5 million by the end of July, for a player they don't even know is fully healthy.

 

makes no sense.

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They're better off getting draft choices than trading Maggs.

 

If he walks after this year, you've got two guys likely ready to step in at OF, and one guy coming quickly (Anderson).

 

Right now, the Sox are in addition mode, not subtraction.

 

The Alomar/Everett trades didn't happen until late June or early July, there is still time. Players become available all the time.

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you don't trade Ordonez. keep him and let him walk at the end of the year. it sucks, but no way in hell is Ordonez worth 5-6 years $10-$12 a year.

 

#1, because he hasn't necessarily gotten better over the years (I'm not just talking about numbers either)

 

#2, Whether we like it or not, our payroll is $60 million, which I think is pretty damn fair considering the half-assed support we fans give to them. Throw $12 mill year at one guy over the course of 5 years and let's see how people will react to it a year or two from now.

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We won't be trading Maggs, found this from the Newark Stark Ledger,

 

"As for Magglio Ordonez, who is on the disabled list, an American League official said the White Sox are more interested in acquiring players than trading them. They are a half-game behind the Twins in the AL Central, and are looking for pitching."
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For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation.  With a self imposed payroll of 60 Million, Sox can't afford to field a balanced team with 25% going to one man.  Magglio's not an ace pitcher, or Barry Bonds; his asking price of 14 million for 5 years might settle in New York (were money is freely spent), but for the White Sox this sort of contract is crippling to our future

I was just wondering...

Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"?

 

Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions. The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands.

 

Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere. Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy. I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down.

 

Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. :rolleyes:

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Well we've saw this coming all along; however, it sucks to really start to see it being confirmed. I'm glad we have a lot of up and coming OF talent in our minor league system. However, it is pretty disheartening that we can't keep solid players like Mags, that began in the organization. I just hope if Mags doesn't come back, we end up becoming spenders on someone else this offseason.

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I was just wondering...

Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? 

 

Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions.  The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands.

 

Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere.  Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy.  I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down.

 

Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. :rolleyes:

Look, I don't have inside information, never intended to sound as if I did. When I created the post I was anticipating ranting from fans : f*** JR, SOX CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT MAGGS For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation was merely my attempt to persuade those who continue to blame JR for his "cheapness"

 

You've been here long enough where it seems some take a situation and put a extremely negative spin on it. My intentions were to eliminate this arguments (of not paying 14 million for Maggs) by suggesting within the range of a 60 million dollar payroll, signing him leaves us no flexible room to properly fill other holes.

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Why continue to support a team that cannot retain it's best players? We're no better than Montreal in that regard.

Why pay Maggs more than 12 million? Look at some other teams that handed out big contracts - Texas with A-Rod (Yeah, that worked out.), Boston with Manny (They have a lot of money, so bad example.)

 

Point being, screw it - we tried to be reasonable, but 14 million is beyond reasonable. He doesn't deserve 14 million per year, and we can go out and get two/three more guys who can contribute to this team. Not to mention Jeremy Reed and Joe Borchard, both who can potentially replace Mags.

 

This is really a sad day - my opinion of Maggs just sorely changed. He obviously DOESN'T want to be here, which, in case, I really don't want a guy here who is just about the money...

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For anyone looking to bash JR, please understand our financial situation

Fans, please understand we cannot afford to compete for a World Series. Enjoy a play off run now and then. If you want the resources ($85,000,000) to compete for a WS, please move to the north side.

 

We want players who are competitive on the field, but not at negotiating a contract. We want players who will not settle for second place, unless it is money.

 

Enjoy a lifetime of 2nd place finishes.

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O-E-O - Bor-chard-Joe?

 

O-E-O - Jerem - blah.

 

O-E-O Ahh enough...

 

 

:crying This is the worst time for this to come out. Let's hope that Ozzie is able to keep the players all on the same page, etc. etc.

 

Also - like the article mentions, this really puts Kenny in a tough spot. He knows his RFer is gone at years end, yet he wants to improve the team now. Yet he doesn't want to trade away potential replacements for next year.

 

Best of luck Ozzie. Best of luck Kenny.

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you don't trade Ordonez.  keep him and let him walk at the end of the year.  it sucks, but no way in hell is Ordonez worth 5-6 years $10-$12 a year.

 

#1, because he hasn't necessarily gotten better over the years (I'm not just talking about numbers either)

 

#2, Whether we like it or not, our payroll is $60 million, which I think is pretty damn fair considering the half-assed support we fans give to them.  Throw $12 mill year at one guy over the course of 5 years and let's see how people will react to it a year or two from now.

Wrong!!!!

 

At the current market, that is what Ordonez does deserve that kind of money.

 

His numbers compare favorably with those of Vlad, Beltran, Sosa, Shawn Green, Griffey, etc., why shouldn't he get paid like them???

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Fans, please understand we cannot afford to compete for a World Series. Enjoy a play off run now and then. If you want the resources ($85,000,000) to compete for a WS, please move to the north side.

 

We want players who are competitive on the field, but not at negotiating a contract. We want players who will not settle for second place, unless it is money.

 

Enjoy a lifetime of 2nd place finishes.

There's spending money, and there's spending money wisely. If I'm not mistaken, Vlad Guerrero makes right around 14 million a year. Now, I personally don't think Maggs is worth Vlad Guerrero type money, considering Vlad puts up better numbers, is younger, is better defensively, is better on the basepaths.

 

As stated in another thread, Bobby Abreu puts up similar numbers to Maggs, yet is only making 10 million or so a year.

 

Understand this - payroll WILL be raised if we generate some extra revenue (post-season). Possibly to 75 million or there-abouts. So if we gave Maggs what he wanted, he would be taking up roughly 1/5th of our salary. With Maggs, Koch, and Valentin coming off the books this winter, that is right around 25 million spending money, in what is considered to be one of the better pitching free agent classes. Pitching wins. Pitching wins. Did I say pitching wins? We can possibly add TWO bonafied starters to this club without keeping Maggs.

 

Now, a rotation of Buerhle-Garland-Loaiza-FA1-FA2, among possibilities including Freddy Garcia, Barry Zito, and Matt Morris (IIRC, just throwing names out there) would be awesome, especially in the weak AL Central.

 

Like I said - you don't just give away money. We have two guys in AAA that by next year, IMHO, should be more than ready to take the spot, at a lot less of a price, and can do things (potentially), maybe not as good as Maggs, but near his production.

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Wrong!!!!

 

At the current market, that is what Ordonez does deserve that kind of money.

 

His numbers compare favorably with those of Vlad, Beltran, Sosa, Shawn Green, Griffey, etc., why shouldn't he get paid like them???

Oh yeah? Let's compare:

 

Now - Im comparing Magglio Ordonez and Vladimir Guerrero, and take the fact that Vlad played on a pretty bad team in Montreal, yet put up these great numbers (2003):

 

Average:

Vlad: .330

Maggs: .317

 

Vlad wins.

 

 

OBP:

Vlad: .426

Maggs: .380

 

Vlad wins.

 

 

RBIs

Vlad: 79 (In about 200 less ABs than Maggs)

Maggs: 99

 

Maggs wins (But it's a skewed win.)

 

 

HRs

Vlad: 25

Maggs: 29

 

Maggs wins, but again, skewed.

 

 

Now Vlad is on a much better team with Anahiem, and right now he is hitting .345, with 15 HRs and 51 RBIs.

 

Don't try telling me Maggs is 'comparable' to Vlad - not even close. I'd take Vlad seven days a week and twice on Sunday... Point is, Maggs not worth 14 million a year.

 

EDIT: For the above comparison, I guess I'd have to say all of the catagories are skewed in a way, because Vlad had 200 less ABs...

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I could care less if we lose Maggs. This same situation has come up before with the Whitesox with McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez and Ventura and they all sucked after they left. I'd rather see the Sox spread their money out. Bochard and Reed are eventually gonna have to get their playing time or get traded so I say bring them up next year. I'd like to see the sox take some of that Maggs/Valentin/Koch money and go after Beltran.

 

Sox in '05

 

Harris 2B

Uribe SS

Beltran CF

Thomas DH

Lee LF

Kornerko 1B

Bochard RF

Crede 3B

Olivo C

Why would KC trade Beltran to us? What do we have that they want?

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I was just wondering...

Do you have inside information on "our financial situation"? 

 

Since you probably don't know anything about the Sox' financial situation, I don't understand your assumptions.  The only thing we do know is that the Sox have apparently CHOSEN to not meet Magglio's demands.

 

Maybe his demands are unreasonable or maybe the Sox feel more confident spending their money elsewhere.  Or maybe the whole thing is a negotiating ploy.  I'm surprised there are no direct quotes from Magglio himself that the negotiations have broken down.

 

Whatever the reason, don't tell me it's because I don't understand their "financial situation" - as if you do. :rolleyes:

I do. But what that has to do with anything I fail to understand.

 

And at this point they (the Sox) have not chosen not to meet anything. All we know is that they stopped talking. Maybe to concentrate on the season at hand..? Naaa.. that's a crazy idea. :rolleyes:

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