The official I want Carlos Beltran thread

[WSoxShuf]

I just can't imagine Allaird Baird is dumb enough to trade within the division.

 

Having just left that s*** hole of KC, I have watched Beltran closely.

 

i beleive he is the best all around player in baseball, lefty with speed and power and can actually play defense.

 

But, as much as I love him, what the hell would we have left if we got him in a trade. Plus, imagine if the sox don't win the diivision wiht an outfield of Lee,Beltran and Maggs. then lose Maggs and Beltran, Breakdown city

[CWSGuy406]

Best all around player in baseball? That goes to Vlad, but he is a damn fine player, and I can see how you want him so badly.

 

Crede/Rauch/Rowand/Diaz/Borchard?

[Gene Honda Civic]

Baird will trade to whoever gives him the most in return.

 

If that happens to be us, then so be it. He has no chance of winning this season.

 

I have reservations because there is little hope of us signing Beltran (a boras client) long term. I'd love to see him here this year, but don't wanna give up a ton to get him.

[Rowand44]

Best all around player in baseball?  That goes to Vlad, but he is a damn fine player, and I can see how you want him so badly.

 

Crede/Rauch/Rowand/Diaz/Borchard?

Best overall player is arod. Vlad is an overrated defender.

[YASNY]

I'd rather see us "rent" Steve Finley. He'd be cheaper. He's a winner.

[Rowand44]

I'd rather see us "rent" Steve Finley.  He'd be cheaper.  He's a winner.

That would probably be the best way to go. But right now I don't think kenny will trade for another hitter unless he's of the beltran caliber. I'd love to see beltran here but realistically I don't see it happening. I believe the yanks will sign beltran in the offseason but don't have enough to trade for him right now. Getting garcia is obviously much more of a need right now and a closer wouldn't hurt either. Right now the offense is the last thing to be worried about even though they still do sleep walk through some games. Another starting pitcher and another bullpen arm are the two main needs right now for kenny to go out and acquire and he might be able to shoot both those needs down with one team and get garcia and guardado atleast I hope so.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd rather see us "rent" Steve Finley.  He'd be cheaper.  He's a winner.

I agree. I don't wanna give up thr farm system for, Beltran. Especially with there being no gurantee we can sign him after this year. We need another starter and bullpen arm.

[CWSGuy406]

When this team is at full strength, no injuries, what do we need?

 

Obvious things are a fifth starter and a solid reliever from the bullpen (preferably a righty, but I'll take a lefty too.)

 

We're OK at catcher. Olivo and Sandy are our catchers, like it or not.

 

First base we're pretty OK too. Paully has been real solid this year, and until he starts to suck, no need to get someone else in there (unless, of course, a deal can be made for Delgado.)

 

Second base we're OK. Harris and Uribe there is fine with me.

 

Shortstop we're OK. Valentin and Uribe are OK with me.

 

Third base. Can use some improvement. Crede as possible trade bait to get a bigger player, such as Beltran? Or just let him fight his way out of it, because we know when he shortens that swing, he'll be solid.

 

Left Field. Lee is fine.

 

Center field - I guess it depends on how everything plays out. I personally wouldn't mind trading for Finley, putting Harris at second, and platooning Valentin/Uribe/Crede between short and third base.

 

Right field. Fine with Maggs.

 

 

Bench. IMO we're OK with a lefty bat, especially if we pick up Finley. Gload has been a solid stick off the bench, and until he proves otherwise, I'm OK with him as our lefty off of the bench. But who is our righty, who will come in and pinch his for a Jose Valentin when they bring in a lefty specialist? Kelly Drandsfeldt? Ugh - we could sure use a nice Tony Graffanino type of guy, who can hit lefties well. Come to think of it, Aaron Rowand does a nice job of hitting lefties, but what if he's traded?

 

Pitching - Like I said, another solid arm or two out of the bullpen, and preferably a number three or better starter, to move Garland and Scotty to numbers 4 and 5 in the pen respectively.

 

Thoughts?

[Rowand44]

When this team is at full strength, no injuries, what do we need?

 

Obvious things are a fifth starter and a solid reliever from the bullpen (preferably a righty, but I'll take a lefty too.)

 

We're OK at catcher.  Olivo and Sandy are our catchers, like it or not.

 

First base we're pretty OK too.  Paully has been real solid this year, and until he starts to suck, no need to get someone else in there (unless, of course, a deal can be made for Delgado.)

 

Second base we're OK.  Harris and Uribe there is fine with me.

 

Shortstop we're OK.  Valentin and Uribe are OK with me.

 

Third base.  Can use some improvement.  Crede as possible trade bait to get a bigger player, such as Beltran?  Or just let him fight his way out of it, because we know when he shortens that swing, he'll be solid.

 

Left Field.  Lee is fine.

 

Center field - I guess it depends on how everything plays out.  I personally wouldn't mind trading for Finley, putting Harris at second, and platooning Valentin/Uribe/Crede between short and third base.

 

Right field.  Fine with Maggs.

 

 

Bench.  IMO we're OK with a lefty bat, especially if we pick up Finley.  Gload has been a solid stick off the bench, and until he proves otherwise, I'm OK with him as our lefty off of the bench.  But who is our righty, who will come in and pinch his for a Jose Valentin when they bring in a lefty specialist?  Kelly Drandsfeldt?  Ugh - we could sure use a nice Tony Graffanino type of guy, who can hit lefties well.  Come to think of it, Aaron Rowand does a nice job of hitting lefties, but what if he's traded?

 

Pitching - Like I said, another solid arm or two out of the bullpen, and preferably a number three or better starter, to move Garland and Scotty to numbers 4 and 5 in the pen respectively.

 

Thoughts?

I basically agree with everything you said. Centerfield and 3rd is where it gets kind of weird. Both of those kind of depend on Crede, if Joe ever starts to hit, the sox can leave willie in center, uribe at 2b, jose ss, crede 3b then everything is set. If crede is still suckin it up close to the deadline, kenny might have to go out and look for a finley and end up moving uribe to 3b which is probably the best thing to do anyways. But another starting pitcher and another arm in the pen are definitely the two biggest needs and wholes right now with this team.

[YASNY]

I'd rate that need for a "Finley" type right up there with the bullpen arm, if not even more of a priority.

[SuperSteve]

Jose Cruz Jr.

[beck72]

When this team is at full strength, no injuries, what do we need?

 

Obvious things are a fifth starter and a solid reliever from the bullpen (preferably a righty, but I'll take a lefty too.)

 

Bench.-- we could sure use a nice Tony Graffanino type of guy, who can hit lefties well. 

Juan Uribe is the Tony G guy coming off the bench. With a Beltran acquisition, that puts Harris back at his normal position and Uribe in the utility role [the sox can't win in the playoffs with Harris in CF. He's a short term solution there. His arm and reads are way below avg]. If Crede can't find his groove, Uribe can see a lot more time at 3rd.

 

The biggest reason to get Beltran- he improves the Sox offense tremendously vs RHP [don't forget how mediocre RHP have handled the Sox bats this year. Wright last night? Imagine in the playoffs]. Batting #2, he'll get on base in front of Maggs, Frank and Carlos.

 

The price for Beltran won't be that high. I'd say Cotts, Rowand or Timo Perez, and a guy from AA [Ruddy Yan, Bajenaru]. With all the LHP in the Sox system, Cotts is expendable. Munoz has more upside than Cotts at this point, esp w/ his control and clear out pitch.

 

The 5th starter and reliever could also be had. Rauch, Borchard, SS Mike Morse, OF Mike Spidale, Felix Diaz, all have value and are behind young guys on the Sox.

[DBAHO]

Beltran will be going to one of 3 teams.

1 - San Diego Padres - Xavier Nady, Sean Burroughs plus a prospect or 2, for Carlos Beltran and Joe Randa.

2 - New York Mets - For David Wright and Scott Kazmir. Ty Wigginton could be included as well mayb for Wright and a player.

3 - Florida Marlins - Traded for prospects. Florida then trades Beltran to the Yanks for Jose Contreas and Dioner Navarro and the Yanks eat up all of Jose's contract.

 

I'd like to see us get Finley too, but there's a problem. Found this on him from Jayson Stark,

 

Arizona is going to have a tough call next month on whether to trade Steve Finley, among others. And Finley, as a 10-and-5 man, can veto any deal. But if Finley does hit the market, the Diambondbacks could position him as a fabulous center-field alternative to Carlos Beltran.

 

"I would trade for Steve Finley in a heartbeat," says one scout. "He's a 39-year-old in a 28-year-old body. He stays in there against left-handers. He plays hard. He runs hard. He's still got great instincts in center field. He's a guy they could trade in July, then re-sign in November. You know the two places he prefers to play are Arizona and San Diego."

 

We won't trade for Cruz Jr. because he doesn't hit for a high enough average and K's a lot I believe. Aaron Rowand and Ross Gload hav done a pretty good the last week fillin in for Maggs as well, it's not like we hav a HUGE problem in the outfield.

[beck72]

Beltran will be going to one of 3 teams.

1 - San Diego Padres - Xavier Nady, Sean Burroughs plus a prospect or 2, for Carlos Beltran and Joe Randa.

2 - New York Mets - For David Wright and Scott Kazmir. Ty Wigginton could be included as well mayb for Wright and a player.

3 - Florida Marlins - Traded for prospects. Florida then trades Beltran to the Yanks for Jose Contreas and Dioner Navarro and the Yanks eat up all of Jose's contract.

SD won't give up Burroughs. [per SD paper]

NYM won't give up Wright, or Kazmir [per Ny paper] Check out MLB News on prosportsdaily.com

 

While KC may want a top 3rd base or C prospect, they probably won't find one for a one year rental. The Sox have the other guys KC needs [sP, bullpen, OF, 2B]

[greasywheels121]

Jose Cruz Jr.

He could be a good pickup, and he probably shouldn't cost must. I could see him put up some "Carl Everett" numbers here.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Personally I don't think Beltran is the answer to our questions. We need pitching. But to those who want Beltran, what would you say if the deal was some combination like Beltran, Randa, and a pitcher like Affeldt for Borchard, Crede and Cotts, or instead of Cotts a minor league pitcher. KC will want someone to bleed a little for Beltran, and from the Sox point of view you wouldn't be losing a lot of the current major league lineup. Yeah, you're trading youth for age, the next few years for this year, but that's what going for it all now means.

[SoxAce]

we could sure use a nice Tony Graffanino type of guy, who can hit lefties well.

I wouldn't mind us snagging Tony G. back.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Im going to try and be negitive here, just for the sake of being negitive, but what happens if we do get Beltran, give away the farm, and then lets say we miss the playoffs by 2 games or something. Then neither Beltran nor Maggs stays. We just f***ed ourselves in the asses for 4 to 5 years.

Well that's what makes this a tough decision for Ken Williams. You're right, you make a move for Beltran, whose agent is not gonna let him sign with anyone but the highest bidder, and things don't work out, then life sucks.

[beck72]

I just can't imagine Allaird Baird is dumb enough to trade within the division.

KC doesn't risk anything trading with the Sox. It's the other way around. KC knows there is no way the sox can keep both Maggs and Beltran in 2005. More likely the Sox resign Maggs.

 

On the other hand, if KC wants some Sox prospects, those players will probably turn into "sox killers" [ie getting big hits, pitching well against their former team].

 

Who would KC want? Rumors are SD [the top team mentioned to get Beltran] would trade OF Xavier Nady as part of a package for Beltran. Rowand is better than him-hits for more power, better d, and more versatile. If I were KC I'd want Rowand from the Sox. Tell me Aaron wouldn't try to exact revenge on the Sox those 19 games KC played them. [i'd prefer Timo Perez be part of deal for Beltran. But I think Aaron would need a change of scenary after a 3rd year in row of the Sox getting a CF to replace him.]

 

SP-Neal Cotts. I don't think Cotts is ready for the rotation on the Sox. KC might. They have Affeldt who looks like a bust. Cotts at least has shown he can throw well in the pen [though w/ his 5+ era he needs to get more outs]

 

Another Prospect from either AAA or AA: 2B Ruddy Yan, RP Jeff Bajenaru, RP Josh Fields, RP Matt Smith

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

KC doesn't risk anything trading with the Sox. It's the other way around. KC knows there is no way the sox can keep both Maggs and Beltran in 2005. More likely the Sox resign Maggs.

 

On the other hand, if KC wants some Sox prospects, those players will probably turn into "sox killers" [ie getting big hits, pitching well against their former team].

 

Who would KC want? Rumors are SD [the top team mentioned to get Beltran] would trade OF Xavier Nady as part of a package for Beltran. Rowand is better than him-hits for more power, better d, and more versatile. If I were KC I'd want Rowand from the Sox. Tell me Aaron wouldn't try to exact revenge on the Sox those 19 games KC played them. [i'd prefer Timo Perez be part of deal for Beltran. But I think Aaron would need a change of scenary after a 3rd year in row of the Sox getting a CF to replace him.]

 

SP-Neal Cotts. I don't think Cotts is ready for the rotation on the Sox. KC might. They have Affeldt who looks like a bust. Cotts at least has shown he can throw well in the pen [though w/ his 5+ era he needs to get more outs]

 

Another Prospect from either AAA or AA: 2B Ruddy Yan, RP Jeff Bajenaru, RP Josh Fields, RP Matt Smith

I think there's gonna have to be at least one really good prospect in any Beltran package, and after watching these guys for the last two to three years, I don't think either Rowand or Cotts fits that description.

[kapkomet]

I just said this another way in another thread, and I'll say it here again another way:

 

Put the crack pipe down. Beltran is a Bora$$ client, therefore, the Sox will not take him unless hell just got some ice water.

 

So let's just stop talking about this cause it ain't gonna happen.

[beck72]

Personally I don't think Beltran is the answer to our questions. We need pitching. But to those who want Beltran, what would you say if the deal was some combination like Beltran, Randa, and a pitcher like Affeldt for Borchard, Crede and Cotts, or instead of Cotts a minor league pitcher. KC will want someone to bleed a little for Beltran, and from the Sox point of view you wouldn't be losing a lot of the current major league lineup. Yeah, you're trading youth for age, the next few years for this year, but that's what going for it all now means.

More than likely, the Sox could only make one move for a position player. That spot is CF. Of the names mentioned, only Beltran [along with SP, and a reliever] makes the Sox a potential WS contender. Any move to add one piece should help the Sox be capable of winning the WS. Finley is decent yet not the guy to help carry a team like Beltran could. Adding a guy like Beltran also improves the bench [by moving Harris back to 2B, and Uribe as super-utility guy.

 

No way would I trade Crede for Randa. Crede can post Randa like numbers for the next 10 years.

 

The key to any deal is who do the Sox have as replacements for the guys they trade.

Cotts'----Arnaldo Munoz, Heath Phillips, Tyler Rumsfeld, Gio Gonzalez.

Borchard and Rowand-----Reed, Anderson, Sweeney, Thomas Brice

[beck72]

I just said this another way in another thread, and I'll say it here again another way:

 

Put the crack pipe down.  Beltran is a Bora$$ client, therefore, the Sox will not take him unless hell just got some ice water.

 

So let's just stop talking about this cause it ain't gonna happen.

Being a Boras client has nothing to do with acquiring a guy through a mid season trade. The client goes where he's told as long as he doesn't have a no-trade clause. Beltran doesn't have one. Any team getting him knows that its most likely for a one year rental.

 

What we're talking about is do the sox have the players KC might want to get Beltran? The answer is probably yes.

[SoxAce]

We have Josh Fields to replace Crede just in case..

[kapkomet]

Being a Boras client has nothing to do with acquiring a guy through a mid season trade. The client goes where he's told as long as he doesn't have a no-trade clause. Beltran doesn't have one. Any team getting him knows that its most likely for a one year rental.

 

What we're talking about is do the sox have the players KC might want to get Beltran? The answer is probably yes.

Yea but there is about as much love between Bora$$ and KW as Cdub has for Reagan and Bush...

 

They don't even want to deal at all, and they won't.

 

And furthermore, would you trade your top prospects for a one year rental? What does that get you? Nothing, in the long term, Beltran is not what the Sox need.

 

This is a dumb conversation, no offense personally intended.