SuperSteve Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Beltran makes 9. Finley - 7 Arizona will be willing to pay part of his remaining salary if the prospects are nice, whereas poor KC wants the prospective takers to pay themseleves. So yes, not only would it take less (prospects) to get Finley but it would take less (money) to get Finley. BTW.... You ARE aware that Sox refers to "White Sox" since they predate Bawston counterparts and all? You rock Brando! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 You rock Brando! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I agree with everything he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I agree with everything he said. But what does Meatwad say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 But what does Meatwad say I think he'd like an adult glass of chocolate milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I think he'd like an adult glass of chocolate milk. OF course Master Shake owns Meatwad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Whoa whoa whoa whoa! HOLD THE PHONE. If we even think to trade future all-star Miguel Olivo for a 1/2 year rental for old Carlos Beltran, we are IDIOTS. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am one of the biggest Beltran fans, but I don't think the Sox need him or will be a legit player in the Beltran sweepstakes. As I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, Finley would be a much better option. Beltran has more talent, but from a statistical standpoint, Finley has been a slightly more productive player: Finley .280/17/35 29 BB 33 SO 7 SB 2 CS .883 OPS Beltran .266/12/43 30 BB 37 SO 12 SB 3 CS .863 OPS When you factor in that Finley will cost less financially and players traded away, than I think it becomes an easy decision. Neither are long-term solutions, since Beltran has Boras as an agent and will be looking for 14-15M/yr, and Finley is a 39 year old FA to be. Living in Arizona, I have seen Finley play on a regular basis, and he is probably in the best shape of his career and looks very good defensively. He also has the reputation of being a great clubhouse guy. With that said, this teams biggest weakness is another starter. This team doesn't need some bottom of the rotation starter, but a potential front of the rotation starter. The top 4 have all overachieved to some degree(before last week) and could come back to Earth a little in the 2nd half, so the Sox could really use a front of the rotation starter to help easy the lose of a possible regression from the current top 4. In regards to Crede, I think he can be traded. How long will the Sox wait for this kid to develop? He has been given roughly 2 years worth of AB's and has shown marginal results to this point. He really reminds me of a 3B version of Royce Clayton(with more power). He still have potential and has shown power and defense at the major league level, which gives him very good trade value(better than his numbers would indicate). I think the Sox should seriously think about involving Crede in THE RIGHT DEAL(for a front of the rotation starter). The Sox could also ask for a decent short-term solution at 3B to replace Crede. For example, maybe Spiezo from Seattle, or Hillenbrand from Arizona, or Randa from KC, ect. All would be suitable short-term solutions if Crede is involved in a deal(with Fields being the long-term solution if he develops). If the Sox could throw a decent prospect at KC and get either Sullivan or Grimsley, than I think they should consider. The bullpen isn't a huge weakness and I don't think they need a closer(I have confidence in Takatsu), but another veteran right hander would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 OF course Master Shake owns Meatwad Oh, no you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Dude Dips*** was directed at this guy.... That was posted by whitesoxin' Sorry I didn't realize that the :dips*** sign only refered to the post directly above me.... I think the content of my post made it obvious which post I was replying to of course I realize now I should of used the Quote.... How about you shut up? I said "I wouldn't like to see Olivo gone". BUT if Beltran agrees to sign a long term contract, and not just be a rent a player for the stretch run, I wouldn't mind the trade. Beltran is not overrated. He is a five tool player, I love those type of guys. Olivo is gonna be good, but Beltran is even better. Edit: After seeing some of Beltrans stats for the year, I'm not so sure any more. Finley would be a better option if we could get him for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Beltran is definitely a very good player, I just have my doubts he'd sign a deal with the White Sox long term, two reasons: 1. Scott Boras 2. Sox are very high on Brian Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Not to many "good" catchers as you say come around to often.Olivo is going to be a stud. Our minor system is stocked with OF prosepcts. Id rather wait it out on a Sweeny, Anderson, Reed, a pay them 350,000 when they come up eventaully than have Beltran around for 6,7 years at 13,14 Million. You hit it right on the head. One of Anderson, Sweeney, Reed, Borchard should pan out! We don't need Beltran, but we do need Olivo. Olivo is out future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Not to many "good" catchers as you say come around to often.Olivo is going to be a stud. Our minor system is stocked with OF prosepcts. Id rather wait it out on a Sweeny, Anderson, Reed, a pay them 350,000 when they come up eventaully than have Beltran around for 6,7 years at 13,14 Million. Agreed. I was thinking about that last night looking at the all-star ballots. There aren't that many "great" catchers; I don't see many in the minors either. I just started to look at what I-Rod and Piazza have done; all I could say is wow. I really feel we have a perennial all-star in Olivo if he stays on this upward track. Olivo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Not to many "good" catchers as you say come around to often.Olivo is going to be a stud. Our minor system is stocked with OF prosepcts. Id rather wait it out on a Sweeny, Anderson, Reed, a pay them 350,000 when they come up eventaully than have Beltran around for 6,7 years at 13,14 Million. That is true. I have to think more realistically in terms of money and the prospects we have. Before we go after Beltran, we need a fifth starter. I know KC will not just give us Beltran, especially since they believe they will be competing against us for the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am one of the biggest Beltran fans, but I don't think the Sox need him or will be a legit player in the Beltran sweepstakes. As I pointed out a couple of weeks ago, Finley would be a much better option. Beltran has more talent, but from a statistical standpoint, Finley has been a slightly more productive player: Finley .280/17/35 29 BB 33 SO 7 SB 2 CS .883 OPS Beltran .266/12/43 30 BB 37 SO 12 SB 3 CS .863 OPS When you factor in that Finley will cost less financially and players traded away, than I think it becomes an easy decision. Neither are long-term solutions, since Beltran has Boras as an agent and will be looking for 14-15M/yr, and Finley is a 39 year old FA to be. Living in Arizona, I have seen Finley play on a regular basis, and he is probably in the best shape of his career and looks very good defensively. He also has the reputation of being a great clubhouse guy. With that said, this teams biggest weakness is another starter. This team doesn't need some bottom of the rotation starter, but a potential front of the rotation starter. The top 4 have all overachieved to some degree(before last week) and could come back to Earth a little in the 2nd half, so the Sox could really use a front of the rotation starter to help easy the lose of a possible regression from the current top 4. In regards to Crede, I think he can be traded. How long will the Sox wait for this kid to develop? He has been given roughly 2 years worth of AB's and has shown marginal results to this point. He really reminds me of a 3B version of Royce Clayton(with more power). He still have potential and has shown power and defense at the major league level, which gives him very good trade value(better than his numbers would indicate). I think the Sox should seriously think about involving Crede in THE RIGHT DEAL(for a front of the rotation starter). The Sox could also ask for a decent short-term solution at 3B to replace Crede. For example, maybe Spiezo from Seattle, or Hillenbrand from Arizona, or Randa from KC, ect. All would be suitable short-term solutions if Crede is involved in a deal(with Fields being the long-term solution if he develops). If the Sox could throw a decent prospect at KC and get either Sullivan or Grimsley, than I think they should consider. The bullpen isn't a huge weakness and I don't think they need a closer(I have confidence in Takatsu), but another veteran right hander would be nice. WS61382, looks like we agree on everything in that post, it's eerie. Finley is in a slump right now, but he still hits RHP better this season than Beltran does. You'd have to start Rowand against LHP regardless of whom you'll get. Can you imagine Beltran sitting for 2 days in a row? He'd be pouting up a storm. Whereas Finley will be more cooperative. Sox are gonna need either of these LH CF'ers when going up against RHP Pedro, Shilling, Lowe, Mussina, Brown, Vasquez. Who do you prefer, Garcia or Glavine? There is absolutely no way Crede should be given up on. I demanded he be benched since like April, but he simply has too much talent and is too cheap to give up on - unless it's for an ace pitcher like Jason Schmidt. Randa is washed-up and makes about 3 more Mill than Crede while providing inferior defense. Hillenbrand would be an upgrade, but he is worse defensively, more expensive and I feel Crede will be able to muster respectable OPS in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I like that; it shows we have one of the best GMs in the bigs. Imagine if he had the freedom to work with a team that has a $80-$95M payroll. KW would be scary. However, I really don't think Beltran's worth it. We know he's going to be just a rent-a-player. Actually I think that phrase meant that since Williams has good prospects to offer and still no deal, something is rotten in Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I also think they meant that KW is now being known around baseball to be very agressive, and if we cant get a 5th starter out of them, I dont think anyone can... That's what I took it as in my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Actually I think that phrase meant that since Williams has good prospects to offer and still no deal, something is rotten in Seattle. Seattle still believes they can make the playoffs believe it or not, they swept the series against the Expos and they are pitching a whole lot better since Nagoette has joined the rotation and Pineiro has gotten back on track. I believe San Diego will get one of Beltran or Garcia because of their willingness to trade Xavier Nady who is a good OF prospect. All the Yanks can offer is a free Jose Contreas and Dioner Navarro, and all KW wants to offer for Garcia is Rauch and Rowand. We will NOT trade Crede and Olivo for Beltran, how many young catchers are playing in the major leagues like Olivo is now and contributing? Victor Martinez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Seattle still believes they can make the playoffs believe it or not Do they realize that with Harden's, Crosby's and Kotsay's emergence, all Oakland needs to win 95+ games is a healthy Chavez back? And I think Billy Beane is gonna add Justice/Guillen-type bat and a reliever as they get closer to the ASB, making them all that tougher to beat. So that means Seattle is gonna have play some unbelivable baseball to win ALW.....they won't. That leaves Wild Card. Boston and Anaheim might win 95 games if Nixon, Garciappara, Colon and Washburn start performing like they're supposed to. Mariners definately lost the season in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 No trading Olivo, period. I took the comment about kw as he's such an aggressive gm that he probably tries to push the other gm's so much and if he can't get a trade done, nobody else will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 Do they realize that with Harden's, Crosby's and Kotsay's emergence, all Oakland needs to win 95+ games is a healthy Chavez back? And I think Billy Beane is gonna add Justice/Guillen-type bat and a reliever as they get closer to the ASB, making them all that tougher to beat. So that means Seattle is gonna have play some unbelivable baseball to win ALW.....they won't. That leaves Wild Card. Boston and Anaheim might win 95 games if Nixon, Garciappara, Colon and Washburn start performing like they're supposed to. Mariners definately lost the season in April. And now Billy Beane wants to trade for Kevin Youklis. He's already got Mark Teahan in AAA from his Moneyball draft. No-one expects Texas to hang around, and if Anaheim can now stay injury free it should be a 2 team race. But Seattle really needs their bats to hot up, Garcia, Moyer, Pineiro and Nageotte all are pitching well in their last 2 starts, and you've got Ryan Franklin trying to hold off Gil Meche for the 5th starter. In 2 weeks, we'll know Seattle's position. They think with Anaheim's injury problems, and with the A's missing Chavez they can make up some ground. They got Milwaulkee and Pittsburgh on the road in the next 2 series, if they can win 4 out of 6 there, they won't trade Garcia yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 I just don't see the White Sox as one of the 4 teams that can meet those needs. Olivo and Crede should be fixtures on our team for the next 5 seasons IMO. Under no circumstances should Joe Crede be traded for Beltran or anyone else. Crede is a very good defensive 3baseman and a fine hitting prospect. Uribe is not a thirdbaseman. Beltran would just be a rent-a-player with the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 For Jason Schmidt? Sure. For Beltran? If it's one for one, maybe. But they'd want Olivo, too. For Finley? No way. He is almost 40 and could be had for Josh Rupe-type prospects. That's almost exactly how I looked at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox311 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 .....They traded Ring, the same thing could happen with Fields...... I forgot...who did we trade royce ring to?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 15, 2004 Share Posted June 15, 2004 He went to the Mets in the Robbie Alomar deal last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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