JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Defensively our OF leaves a LOT to be desired :puke Lee Good (5 assists, 1 dp) Harris Poor (1 assist) Perez Below Avg Gload Below Avg Rowand Fair Maggs Fair I just don't think you can win a division w/out being solid defensively in the OF. Defensively our Bullpen leaves a LOT to be desired :puke Shingo Great Marte Good Adkins Fair Cotts Below Average Politte Poor Jackson Poor How do you win a division with that kind of bullpen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 in order starter, bullpen, CF, other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Defensively our OF leaves a LOT to be desired :puke Lee Good (5 assists, 1 dp) Harris Poor (1 assist) Perez Below Avg Gload Below Avg Rowand Fair Maggs Fair I just don't think you can win a division w/out being solid defensively in the OF. Defensively our Bullpen leaves a LOT to be desired :puke Shingo Great Marte Good Adkins Fair Cotts Below Average Politte Poor Jackson Poor How do you win a division with that kind of bullpen? In defense of some of these guys: Lee (Good. Yes) Perez (Can get lazy at times, still poor) Gload (Average) Harris (He's a Second Basemen, nuff said) Arow (Has the best outfield arm on the team and is one of our best at getting to balls hit in the gaps) Maggs (Always has been a better defensive RF then he has been given credit for) Sadly I totally agree with you on the bullpen. As soon as Pollitte came in I knew that it was over. However Cotts and Adkins I would rate as Above Average when they are confident and on their game. Sadly Cotts hasn't been the same since that starting fiasco and I think it might be best if we just let him work as a starter in AAA for the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 I took another look at Rowands fielding stats in CF & they actually are pretty decent. His 2.89 RF, & 9.14 ZR is very good. Now maybe it's because he's not played as many innings there but they are much better numbers than both Harris & Perez. Harris' numbers are about 40% less than Rowands & Perez's are about 20% less. Rowand's crushing LH's (1105 OPS), but getting beat by RH's (619 OPS). The abs are about even between the two. Harris is 393 vs LHs & 783 vs RHs & Perez resembles Rowands production. This is the kind of stuff that makes managers pull their hair out How a below avg revenue team has to juggle 3 players to keep them both fresh & get the best matchups. The defensive side ultimately suffers because none of them get accustomed to playing one of the most important defensive posistion on the team. What's a manager to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Rowand is not a bad ballplayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I took another look at Rowands fielding stats in CF & they actually are pretty decent. His 2.89 RF, & 9.14 ZR is very good. Now maybe it's because he's not played as many innings there but they are much better numbers than both Harris & Perez. Harris' numbers are about 40% less than Rowands & Perez's are about 20% less. Rowand's crushing LH's (1105 OPS), but getting beat by RH's (619 OPS). The abs are about even between the two. Harris is 393 vs LHs & 783 vs RHs & Perez resembles Rowands production. This is the kind of stuff that makes managers pull their hair out How a below avg revenue team has to juggle 3 players to keep them both fresh & get the best matchups. The defensive side ultimately suffers because none of them get accustomed to playing one of the most important defensive posistion on the team. What's a manager to do? You need some help with figuring out fielding for 2003? http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Rowand is not a bad ballplayer. And he doesn't complain about his role either, great guy to hav in the clubhouse. I wouldn't say hitting .275 is too bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 This one's a no brainer. New starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Definitely a new starter. Yet for the sox to get into the playoffs and go farther they need bullpen help and a CF who can bat LH and at the top of the order [1 or 2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I think for this team to do well in regular season, we obviously need a starter. However, I think for us to play well in the playoffs, we need to move Jose. Not that he's a bad player, but we need Harris at 2nd and Rowand (or an acquisition) in CF. I love Harris, but he ain't a good defensive CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Definitely a new starter. Yet for the sox to get into the playoffs and go farther they need bullpen help and a CF who can bat LH and at the top of the order [1 or 2] No. We need a LH CF that can bat 5th. To break up the Maggs, Frank, Lee, PK all in a row situation. Uribe, Valentin or Olivo, depending the pitcher, could all do well in the number 2 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 You need some help with figuring out fielding for 2003? http://www.diamond-mind.com/articles/gg2003.htm What an eye-opener in that report! They consider Lee amongst the very best in LF They nominated Valentin for a Gold Glove They mentioned Dye as a top glove RF (broken leg in 2002 .. ouch!) And the biggest shock ... With Lee the White Sox performed close to that of the Minn trio. Big props in that report to Carlos Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mar...ports-headlines Koch is owed about $3.9 million of his 2004 salary, with the White Sox agreeing to pay more than half of that figure, according to Chicago GM Ken Williams. To get Koch, 29, the Marlins had to give up their 17th-best prospect, according to Baseball America. Valdez, SS was hitting .319 with 19 stolen bases at Albuquerque. Carl Pavano has positioned himself to parlay his 2004 success into a huge payday. The owner of the National League's eighth-lowest ERA (2.81) after Wednesday's shutout, Pavano is eligible for free agency this offseason. Ok so maybe it's not enough to pursue Beltran, but then again ... http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/17501.htm Since the Royals like Boston minor-league hurlers Juan Perez and Abe Alvarez and major-league infielder Kevin Youkilis, the Red Sox are considered among the favorites to land Beltran when the Royals decide to move the center fielder, who will become a free agent following the season. That's why, despite a crying need for a starting pitcher, the Yankees keep in touch with Kansas City GM Allard Baird, who wants Trenton (Double-A) catcher Dioner Navarro included in any deal with the Yanks. Baird dispatched scout Pat Jones to New Britain to watch Navarro and infielder Robinson Cano, who was recently shifted from second to third. Hurting the Yankees in the Beltran and Freddy Garcia chases is they don't have a highly thought of pitching prospect the Royals and Mariners want. Brad Halsey, 23, could be that arm if he pitches well tomorrow against the Dodgers in his major-league debut. Deja Vu? .. Do the CWS become part of the action in NY's effort to keep a big name player from being a RedSox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 No. We need a LH CF that can bat 5th. To break up the Maggs, Frank, Lee, PK all in a row situation. Uribe, Valentin or Olivo, depending the pitcher, could all do well in the number 2 spot. How did the Marlins do with just Castillo and Pierre as their only two left handed bats and they were both 1 and 2 in the order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/8951653.htm?1c They also received an undisclosed amount of money to offset the approximately $3.7 million owed Koch this season. The Marlins also received what Beinfest termed ''a significant amount of cash.'' Williams said the White Sox would pick up ''more than half'' -- from $2 million to $2.5 million -- of Koch's salary. It looks like Kenny shaved 1.5 mil .. still pretty good in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 Any one interested in Kotsay? http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctime.../8953861.htm?1c Beltran is in the final season of a contract that will pay him $9 million this season. Thus, he's still owed about $4.5 million for the remainder of the season. To squeeze Beltran into the payroll without a bump to the payroll, the A's likely would have to dump salary. Center fielder Mark Kotsay would seem be the most logical choice there, considering he's scheduled to make $6.5 million annually through 2006. But a high-ranking club official said the A's aren't necessarily convinced Beltran would have more of an impact than Kotsay, who has raised his average to .297 by hitting .432 over his past 19 games. Hudson says the A's need bullpen help. Other than Bos & NY who doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 What an eye-opener in that report! They consider Lee amongst the very best in LF They nominated Valentin for a Gold Glove They mentioned Dye as a top glove RF (broken leg in 2002 .. ouch!) And the biggest shock ... With Lee the White Sox performed close to that of the Minn trio. Big props in that report to Carlos Lee They also gave TREMENDEOUS praise to Rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 How did the Marlins do with just Castillo and Pierre as their only two left handed bats and they were both 1 and 2 in the order? Did the last two games not convince you that this lineup cannot be counted on to beat (not beet ) a quality right handed pitcher? ... If not, check out the past 3.5 years. To answer your question directly, the Sox don't have a Josh Beckett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/8951653.htm?1c They also received an undisclosed amount of money to offset the approximately $3.7 million owed Koch this season. The Marlins also received what Beinfest termed ''a significant amount of cash.'' Williams said the White Sox would pick up ''more than half'' -- from $2 million to $2.5 million -- of Koch's salary. It looks like Kenny shaved 1.5 mil .. still pretty good in my book The money saved is probably not enough to get a big-time player, but it would be enough for Urbina and almost enough for Finley (assuming Arizona picks up at least 2 Mill of his remaining salary in return for prospects). I wonder NYY could possibly do to help Sox get Beltran...that they couldn't do to get him for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 The money saved is probably not enough to get a big-time player, but it would be enough for Urbina and almost enough for Finley (assuming Arizona picks up at least 2 Mill of his remaining salary in return for prospects). I wonder NYY could possibly do to help Sox get Beltran...that they couldn't do to get him for themselves. I'm sure NYY would rather have Beltran wearing White Sox over Red ones, but I don't think they'd want to strengthen us that much. They may regret doing so in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 I'm sure NYY would rather have Beltran wearing White Sox over Red ones, but I don't think they'd want to strengthen us that much. They may regret doing so in October. The problem for NY is that they don't have enough cheap young players to do trades themselves. That's why they might bring the SOX in to thwart BOS. This is a very interesting article for those who think the market is turning up for FA's. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/sa...contracts_x.htm NYY : payroll approaching $200 mil, on the hook for 567 mil from 05-10. Three times higher than any other team. PHI: hooked for $181 mil. 2001: MLB hooked for 3.7 over 10 yrs to 272 players. 2004: MLB hooked for 2.8 over 6 yrs to about 1/2 as many players. Insurance: Many times players can't complete terms. Many have dropped out. The few that remain will insure no more than 3 yrs & 70% of the value. OAK: 66 mil/6 Eric Chavez MTL: hooked for 308K ARI: hooked for 31 mil thru 2006, plus deferred comp. The issue of course is that fewer players are getting a much bigger pc of the pie & that increases the risk of the overall debt. The Yankees help circulate & pay down that debt with their spend & purge tactics but it's still an ever-increasing problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/sa...alary-chart.htm Here's the details. Thome's at the bottom with 70 mil remaining. CWS: hooked for 34 mil. Excellent given it's a below-avg rev team. That supports the theory they can afford Maggs at 70/5. But with insurance being harder to find & Maggs going on the DL I would imagine JR is a bit spooked. Whether Maggs is worth that much of the SOX payroll is debatable but one thing is for certain: other teams seem to feel he is. With that being said even at 70/5 & assuming that only 3 yrs can be insured at 70% of the value realistically Maggs is what I would call liquid debt. If Kenny was to sign him to 70/5 right now w/out a no-trade clause barring injury he would have no problem trading him. If you combine his trade value with his performance 70/5 should not be cost-prohibitive. For example: suppose the SOX for economic reasons are forced to trade him to the NYY. The SOX could probably get Godzilla + prospect for Maggs straight up. Assuming of course Maggs has a typical year in 2004. The net effect of that deal is both younger talent & a savings of nearly 7 mil a year. Now I'm not advocating this be done but it's an example of how liquid Maggs debt would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 A cub fan that lives near me brought this up. As you know Wood is going to come off the DL before the break. That leaves Rusch the odd man out. This cub fan covets Adkins or Cotts. He proposes a straight up deal. Rusch for Adkins or Cotts plus ml. Should the SOX take a chance on this? Is this fan asking too much or too little? IMHO it's a tough one to call. Rusch was drafted as a high prospect & I believe was even #1 in the Mets org at one time. But is past history is a downer. Money wise he's a very low risk & a LH. The cub fan obviously is looking to shore up their bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 Something to be said about the Lefty, Righty matchups on the SOX: CWS vs LH: 941 OPS, 778 OPS vs CWS vs RH:797 OPS, 745 OPS vs NYY vs LH: 871 OPS, 730 OPS vs NYY vs RH: 790 OPS, 730 OPS vs BOS vs LH: 801 OPS, 723 OPS vs BOS vs RH: 809 OPS, 702 OPS vs OAK vs LH: 786 OPS, 793 OPS vs OAK vs RH: 790 OPS, 705 OPS vs MIN vs LH: 739 OPS, 731 OPS vs MIN vs RH: 761 OPS, 759 OPS vs ANA vs LH: 732 OPS, 759 OPS vs ANA vs RH: 771 OPS, 751 OPS vs Among contenders we are #2 vs RH, & #1 vs LH. I would say that places a greater emphasis on pitching & defense in trade talk. We are now the weakest pitching-wise amongst contenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Rusch for Adkins or Cotts plus ml Rusch out-dueled Matt Morris and Roy Oswalt (that's when it became painfully obvious Cards and Astros will not challenge healthy Cubs) , but he get hammered in AL, trust me. Cotts is nothing but a lefty specialist at this point, but he is cheap and young and talented, so NO to the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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