Soxbadger Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 If Munoz was to fail, and Williams felt that we could not acquire another starter for a while, the Adkins for Rusch deal would be intriguing. As for Cotts for Rusch, Id rather keep Cotts, as Rusch isnt a long term solution. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 No. We need a LH CF that can bat 5th. To break up the Maggs, Frank, Lee, PK all in a row situation. Uribe, Valentin or Olivo, depending the pitcher, could all do well in the number 2 spot. I disagree. Any CF the Sox get needs to be able to hit #2, in front of Maggs, Frank and Carlos. A contact guy, OBP guy rather than a HR hitter. I don't think both Uribe and Harris will be able to continue their hot hitting. If one gets cold, the sox offense will stall. Also, Uribe and Harris have struggled during many of the Sox losses. I don't have the exact stats but I heard mentioned that Uribe was hitting something like .350 in Sox wins and less than .200 in losses. But both Finley and Beltran could hit #2. Valentin can hit lower in the order at 6. Valentin and Olivo 'K' too much to hit #2 for a playoff team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I say no to Rusch, I'd rather look elsewhere. What about either Zambrano? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I disagree. Any CF the Sox get needs to be able to hit #2, in front of Maggs, Frank and Carlos. A contact guy, OBP guy rather than a HR hitter. I don't think both Uribe and Harris will be able to continue their hot hitting. If one gets cold, the sox offense will stall. Also, Uribe and Harris have struggled during many of the Sox losses. I don't have the exact stats but I heard mentioned that Uribe was hitting something like .350 in Sox wins and less than .200 in losses. But both Finley and Beltran could hit #2. Valentin can hit lower in the order at 6. Valentin and Olivo 'K' too much to hit #2 for a playoff team. You have a point about the strikeouts, which I did consider before posting that. However, I feel it is more imperative for us to have somneone break up all those righties. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I say no to Rusch, I'd rather look elsewhere. What about either Zambrano? If we can't come up with a #2 type pitcher, Rusch would fill in nicely as a number 5. I'd like to set my sights a little higher, but that's not always possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 The problem for NY is that they don't have enough cheap young players to do trades themselves. That's why they might bring the SOX in to thwart BOS. I understood that from your original post. In fact, I alluded to it in mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 1. Acquire a starter. We need Garcia BADLY. If we can't get Garcia than go for Livan Hernandez, Benson, and if we are desperate Glendon Rusch, maybe even Ryan Dempster? 2. A reliable reliever. Ugueth Urbina comes to mind, if not him than perhaps another reliever, I'm not sure who Kenny has in mind, but I'm sure there are plenty of good ones out there. 3. Steve Finley. I know others want him badly too. If we are going to acquire an outfielder it should be him and only him. He'd fit in perfect with the Sox line-up, and would be a great influence in the clubhouse. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I'll trade ss2k for a sack of uummmm, and I'll trade Chisoxfn for a bag of ummmm, oh... not SOXTALK trades, SOX trades... nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 http://www.prosportsdaily.com/ Atlanta Journal-Constitution (registration required): "Most Braves hadn't heard trade rumors involving Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz until they got to the stadium Sunday and heard from reporters. But none seemed surprised, even that the once-untouchable Jones could be involved." Los Angeles Times (registration required): "On Sunday, after a meeting in which Angel Manager Mike Scioscia told Ramon Ortiz that he would return to the bullpen, Ortiz again asked the Angels to trade him." Newark Star-Ledger (registration required): " According to a person close to Steinbrenner, The Boss called an impromptu between-games meeting and then another meeting after the second game ended at 11:38 p.m... The two names most prominently discussed were those of another Seattle starter, 41-year-old veteran left-hander Jamie Moyer, and Atlanta Braves right-hander Russ Ortiz." Apparently he's a little miffed we got Garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 The full story on the Yanks pursuit of Garcia: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yan...ports-headlines The Yankees had targeted Garcia as their top option in upgrading their starting rotation, but they didn't have the prospects to make the righthander theirs - infuriating The Boss. "They didn't think we could match it, or beat it," Cashman said of Chicago's offer for Garcia. "After I saw the trade, I agree with them. I thought the Mariners made a heck of a trade." If the Johnson mission fails, the Yankees will have to choose from a pool of lesser pitchers that could include Seattle lefthander Jamie Moyer, Atlanta righthander Russ Ortiz and Pittsburgh righthander Kris Benson. The Mets probably would not hand over the highly successful Tom Glavine to the Yankees, even if the Mets fall out of the National League East race. "We're not in a situation, in my opinion, where we have to do something," Cashman insisted. "What we have to do is get [Jon] Lieber going right now." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 Players most likely to be moved: "Pittsburgh's Kris Benson is the Yanks' most reachable target. Atlanta's Russ Ortiz is not yet available. Jamie Moyer, David Wells, and Miguel Batista could be moved before the July 31 trade deadline." One high-level scout believes the modest list of available arms ultimately will include Atlanta's Russ Ortiz and Jaret Wright, Colorado's Jason Jennings and Shawn Estes, Milwaukee's Ben Sheets, Pittsburgh's Kip Wells and Toronto's Pat Hentgen, Miguel Batista and Ted Lilly. Anaheim's Ramon Ortiz also could pique the Mets' interest." I am shocked to see Ben Sheet's name in that list. I'm pissing myself over the possibility of the White Sox getting Ben Sheets through the Selig - JR connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I would LOVE Ben Sheets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 The LH Moyer has a wierd contract: Seattle gave him a $1.5 million signing bonus, $6 million in 2003, $6.5 million in 2004 and $1.5 million in 2005. He can earn an addition $6 million in the final season -- $1.5 million based on starts in 2003 and $4.5 million based on innings in 2004. His base in 2005 is 3 million. He's earned the 1.5 mil based on starts in 2003. But it can balloon to 7.5 million based on innings. I would imagine that kind of a bonus is based on 200 ip. He's presently at 97 so I think he's definitely got a shot at it. I think that's too costly for the White Sox in 2005 ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 http://www.prosportsdaily.com/ New York Daily News: "There are several names making the rounds of the baseball grapevine, such as Atlanta's Russ Ortiz, Colorado's Jason Jennings, Seattle's Jamie Moyer and Pittsburgh's Kris Benson... The Yankees also are holding out hope that Arizona's Randy Johnson becomes available if the Diamondbacks, who are the second-worst team in the National League, keep plummeting. Some Yankee officials believe that Johnson wants out, despite assertions by Arizona's owners that Johnson won't be traded." Well Bf brought this up before, so how about it? Should the SOX trade for RJ? There is no question in my mind they can offer Arizona a better pkg than any team vying for his services. It's a big money pickup but Johnson is that marquee name that could very well sell out every start. I kid you not. Just look at D-backs attendance when he pitches & look at attendance on the road when he pitches. This could be the big shot in the arm the White Sox need to steal the front pages from the cubs. The smart money is that Johnson would pay for himself. Meaning the added revenue would still leave the Sox with a profit after paying Johnson. A flight from O'Hare is a lot closer to AZ than NYC. I think it's a win-win. The only question I have to ask about this is why wouldn't Texas go after him? Thanks to the White Sox they can put together a nice pkg as well & they certainly have the $. Dallas is much closer to AZ than Chicago or NYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Rj in Texas. Now there's a good trade. But he'd look better with a Sox hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04181/339103.stm You guys blew it with Freddy Garcia. You let the Chicago White Sox beat you to him. I know you don't want that to happen again. Did you see my guy last night? Kris Benson was pretty good, wasn't he? I don't have to tell you that was a pretty good St. Louis lineup he shut down. That's five good starts in a row. I'm telling you, this guy can help you. You know my position here. It's no secret I've got to move him. Give me your best offer. I'd like to wrap this up by the weekend. Don't wait to get back to me. Don't be sorry. ============================== Something I want to say about Garcia. Some have suggested we could have gotten him for less earlier in the season or during the off-season. But I disagree. Freddy's 2003 stats were no where as good as they are right now. His record is meaningless. He has as many quality & winnable starts this year as any other ML pitcher. He's pitched as good or better than any one else. Steinbrenner is now saying nobody could beat Chicago's price. I doubt if he even knew who Olivo was before that trade & now he talks about him like a future all-star. We all know that mid-revenue teams are built through drafts & low-mid cost free agents. There is little expectation of keeping your own. The SOX have been consistently strong in drafting & bringing along OF talent. So Reed is not as a high a cost to this team as others. As for Morse, I think that's a bigger sign that the SOX will play try to resign Valentin to another extension. His popularity is at an all-time high amongst SOX fans & he's demonstrated the desire to give up a little $ to stay with the SOX. So Morse's biggest value was probably trade value to begin with. There are other prospects at SS in the SOX that expect to be ready when Val decides to retire. So it comes down to Miguel & Crede & I think most would agree that you want Crede around for his 2nd 1/2 power burst. When you look at it that way the SOX probably over-paid but if Garcia can win them a division crown who's gonna complain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 One thing about the Garcia trade might make me :puke If it's inevitable consequence is that the Boss get Randy Johnson. I would :puke my guts all over the floor during every RJ start. That's like Luke joining Darth Vader to rule the evil empire. Say it ain't so? Anybody & everybody please don't let that happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I will say this right now. There is NO WAY that Randy Johnson goes to NYY. Coangelo and Steinbrenner hate each other. There is a ton of bad blood between them over the whole David Wells signing a couple of years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 7 out of 10 posts in a row. Drink! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 We all know that mid-revenue teams are built through drafts & low-mid cost free agents. There is little expectation of keeping your own. The SOX have been consistently strong in drafting & bringing along OF talent. So Reed is not as a high a cost to this team as others. As for Morse, I think that's a bigger sign that the SOX will play try to resign Valentin to another extension. His popularity is at an all-time high amongst SOX fans & he's demonstrated the desire to give up a little $ to stay with the SOX. So Morse's biggest value was probably trade value to begin with. There are other prospects at SS in the SOX that expect to be ready when Val decides to retire. So it comes down to Miguel & Crede & I think most would agree that you want Crede around for his 2nd 1/2 power burst. When you look at it that way the SOX probably over-paid but if Garcia can win them a division crown who's gonna complain? Great post. We also have Uribe to step into SS when Hose retires. Plus, as much as many of us would have rather have given up Borchard over Reed...KW probably had some pressure to keep Borchard because of the huge amount of publicity over his signing those years ago. He really hasn't had a chance to prove his worth without looking over his shoulder or fear of being sent down and he is the main insurance policy if/when Maggs leaves after this year. If he doesn't pan out then...see ya, Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Something I want to say about Garcia. Some have suggested we could have gotten him for less earlier in the season or during the off-season Less??? Before Jon Rauch got exposed wholesale against the Angels on May 20-whatever, he was having an excellent season in a AAA bandbox. Not a great trade value, but not a chump throw-in either. Another 'Minor League Player of the Year', Jeremy Reed, was coming off a triumphant first month in AAA. Seattle LOVES the guy. Sure, they realize that because of the wrist problem, Jeremy's trade value is not as high as it was before, but, again, neither Bavasi nor Fontain will miss forest for the trees. Mike Morse is never gonna field like A-Rod, but as many here can attest, this guy could be a hidden gem. I once again point to Brandon Inge - if Seattle was THAT bent on getting a promising catcher, do you honestly think they couldn't pry him away from the Kitties with hardly a prospect given up in return? Hindsight is always 20/20.....And who knows, maybe Bavasi would never traded Garcia without Miguel Olivo involved........But one thing is for sure, circa mid-May, the Reed + Rauch + Morse combo was ANYTHING but "settling for less". It would have been a very solid offer at the time. Remember, in the off-season, Seattle was willing to give Freddy and his 7 Mill salary away for not much. I think Sox were 21-18 after Diaz bombed in Cleveland. Many people on this board thought that we're were gonna get crushed by Minnesota (road), Texas and Anaheim in the upcoming 10 games. I bet the possibility of falling .500 crossed Sox management's mind as well. Do we know for sure KW tried to get Garcia then to close up the 5-starter hole forever AND to give the team an ace pitcher....and was subsequently rebuffed by Bavasi who was holding out for more? Was an attempt made before Yankees and Dodgers joined the sweepstakes? THAT is my biggest beef. Sox always penny-pinch, always want to cut corners -- which is understandable when you are rebuilding but NOT when you're screaming on every corner of your intentions to "GO FOR IT" - and sure enough, that philosophy produces such season-killers as Ritchie, White and Koch more often than it does Uribe. I still don't understand what happened in 2002 and especially in 2003 - a bad dream. But I digress. And what's with enshrining Freddy Garcia? In the last 3 years, this guy is a 4.50 ERA pitcher away from Safeco. He will also command Colon bucks after the season, so it's a rental situation. Did I blink and miss him being Pedro Martinez in his prime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I will say this right now. There is NO WAY that Randy Johnson goes to NYY. Coangelo and Steinbrenner hate each other. There is a ton of bad blood between them over the whole David Wells signing a couple of years back. Then couldn't Sox potential play on that hate? I am sure D-Backs would want to shed the salary AND raise the chances of Yankees getting upstaged not just by Oakland and/or Boston, but also the White Sox? That no-trade clause is a huge obstacle, but it's not un-overcomable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Then couldn't Sox potential play on that hate? I am sure D-Backs would want to shed the salary AND raise the chances of Yankees getting upstaged not just by Oakland and/or Boston, but also the White Sox? That no-trade clause is a huge obstacle, but not it's un-overcomable. It could. But Randy Johnson and Jerry Reinsdorf both have to have their stars align, before the personel talk could even start. I am sure that we could give them somethings they want (OFs and SPs) but the "ifs" that have to happen are huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 And what's with enshrining Freddy Garcia? In the last 3 years, this guy is a 4.50 ERA pitcher away from Safeco. He will also command Colon bucks after the season, so it's a rental situation. Did I blink and miss him being Pedro Martinez in his prime? I talked so much s*** about Freddy Garcia last month. I'm sure you remember our conversation about him being a "lazy, cocaine dabbling asshole". But now that he's on the Sox, all the negatives are GAWN. Forgotten. Adios. Fredro has a clean slate. But it pisses me off when people suggest that he can be had for between 7 and 10 million a year, when, in reality, it's more like a minimum of 12 million per year. Is this guy worth 12 million? I think that I'd rather have Mulder for that amount, which is what he'll get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Bf, no one is saying it's time to enshrine Garcia but you have to admit the off-season surgery he had to fix a middle-ear balance problem has made a big difference. He's arguably the 3rd best pitcher in the AL right now. He wasn't that in the off-season & if the SOX were willing to part with 7 million they could have gotten he much cheaper in trade talent. But again his numbers before the surgery didn't really warrant that price. So all I'm saying is for his present value at the time the SOX need him the most (with SS on the DL) I don't think they SOX could have gotten him for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.