ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 hey Jim, Bush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 1-I don't think abortion will be banned even if Bush is in office OK, so how is this a reason to support Bush? Even though you're probably right, the fact that Bush would like to make it illegal doesn't bother you? 2-If Kerry is elected there is a chance that gay marriage will be approved. I have nothing against gay people, but I am worried about the legal can of worms that the gay marriage precedent would open. Please explain what you mean by "legal can of worms" 3-Bush doesn't have the answers in Iraq, but neither does kerry. This doesn't sound like much of a vote of confidence for the current president 4-I don't want to see an administration change while we are constantly under terrorist threat. Oh, now I think I see where you're coming from. Why would a change in administration heighten/lessen our chances of being hit by terrorists? 5-The economy is headed in the right direction, no reason to make a change from that stand point. To paraphrase what Alex said in another thread, politics has little to do with how the economy is doing, and the factors making up the economy are so many and complicated that there's never a reason to tie your vote for president to how the current economy is doing. But, using your line of thinking, I would then ask what about the first 3.5 years of his administration? The economy was terrible, and it can't be blamed solely on Sept. 11. I am not high on either candidate, but this is not the time for a change. Hopefully the democrats will through out a more intriguing candidate in 2008. So then, you're not really a Bush supporter, are you? If, say, Kerry was the incumbent, and Bush was running against him, would you vote for Kerry for the sake of stability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldmember Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 So then, you're not really a Bush supporter, are you? If, say, Kerry was the incumbent, and Bush was running against him, would you vote for Kerry for the sake of stability? Its the same deal with everyone's "anyone but Bush attitude", just the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 My reason for supporting Kerry is simple. He is capable of reassessing his positions.. and is a pragmatist, and can be a consensus builder. He is more likely to appoint Supreme Court Justices that would not be ideologically rigid. He has served his country honorably in a time of war and I feel can provide the necessary leadership to steer this country successfully out of such a terror threat that we face now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Its the same deal with everyone's "anyone but Bush attitude", just the other way around. But how does that work, given that Kerry hasn't done anything to judge him on? I mean, many(assumedly all) Anti-Bush people base their "anybody but George" sentiments on things that he has said/done during his presidency. But how can you say anyone but Kerry if he hasn't done anything yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 just because he has never been president doesnt mean he hasnt done anything yet. I forget who you made that onbe post to but he had said something like he wasnt that pleased with either, something i can agree with. However, based on Kerry's record, ideas, and everything else associated with him, IMO i have no reason to feel he would do a better job in office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxman352000 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 just because he has never been president doesnt mean he hasnt done anything yet. I forget who you made that onbe post to but he had said something like he wasnt that pleased with either, something i can agree with. However, based on Kerry's record, ideas, and everything else associated with him, IMO i have no reason to feel he would do a better job in office. Hell Yeah, exactly the way I feel about Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 hey Jim, Bush Damn, the site's gotta be running low on :headshake 's Oh, what the heck... :headshake :headshake :headshake :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Why would anyone vote for the French looking John Kerry? I mean, he's French for god's sake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ummm. I'm French. Not that I'm proud of it or anything. There is one reason that makes me vote for anyone but Bush. SUPREME COURT VACANCIES. The next four years will shape the Supreme Court for the next 20 to 30 years. As many as three justices may be retiring before 2008. The question is: If you care about social issues that Bush disagrees with, reproductive rights, civil rights for gay people (including the right to fair housing and employment), stem cell research, treatment of non-citizen prisoners... then you can not in good conscience vote for George Bush in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ummm. I'm French. Not that I'm proud of it or anything. There is one reason that makes me vote for anyone but Bush. SUPREME COURT VACANCIES. The next four years will shape the Supreme Court for the next 20 to 30 years. As many as three justices may be retiring before 2008. The question is: If you care about social issues that Bush disagrees with, reproductive rights, civil rights for gay people (including the right to fair housing and employment), stem cell research, treatment of non-citizen prisoners... then you can not in good conscience vote for George Bush in November. That point can'r be emphasized enough. Bush getting "re-elected" could absolutely lead to a scary make up of the Supreme Court, one with not a lot of interest in equality and the civil rights of US citizens. And they'lll be on the job for a loooong time to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I'm holding the nose and voting for Kerry because he cannot be as bad as the 4 years of Bush. 1) The National Debt has increased under Bush Jr. so drastically that the average American's share of the debt will be $24,000 compared to $500 when W first took office. 2) Under Bush Jr. we've gone from 41 million without health care to 43 million. 3) He cut health care benefits for veterans and increase co-payments and waiting time for VA hospitals. 4) Youth Opportunity Grants have been done away with. This was a program providing job training to America's youth and despite 13% unemployment of people aged 16-24, he gutted the program. 5) Cut funding for 375,000 low income college students and reduced Pell grant amounts to such a severe degree that it effectively caused 84,000 students to no longer be eligible for Pell grants. Pell grants have been overall reduced for 1.5 million students. 6) Our withdrawal from the International Criminal Court. 7) His refusal to punish or reprimand Lt. General Jerry Boykin for his comments about how the Christian God would kick Allah's ass. (not an exact quote...Google it) 8) First president to have a criminal record. 9) Decreased funding for the Violence Against Women Act. 10) Appointed Charles Pickering, a noted segregationist from MS, as a federal judge....on MLK Jr. Day. 11) Under the Clear Skies Initiative, power plants are allowed to emit 3x the amount of highly toxic mercury into the environment. 12) He's on pace to be the President with the most vacation time taken. Before 9/11, 42% of his presidency was "vacation time". 13) Failure to protect 3 million acres of the Tongass Nat'l Forest from logging. The Tongass has the highest concentration of bald eagles on Earth and already lost 700 sq. miles to logging with 33 more logging permits pending. 14) Pat Robertson has endorsed him. The same Pat Robertson quoted as stating that we should "nuke the State Department" and that 9/11 was caused by gays, lesbians, feminists, the ACLU, People for the American Way and other non-Christians. 15) His decline to fully fund the AIDS initiative that he promised to fund fully. 16) His denial of equal rights to the LGBT community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Gleason Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I'm thinking of seriously voting for Bill The Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 KERRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I'd be surprised if any opinions DO change here. Seems we're a prretty stubborn bunch of motherf***ers. I've never heard a more true statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 There is one reason that makes me vote for anyone but Bush. SUPREME COURT VACANCIES. The next four years will shape the Supreme Court for the next 20 to 30 years. As many as three justices may be retiring before 2008. The question is: If you care about social issues that Bush disagrees with, reproductive rights, civil rights for gay people (including the right to fair housing and employment), stem cell research, treatment of non-citizen prisoners... then you can not in good conscience vote for George Bush in November. Who's good conscience? Yours? God forbid if any president should appoint judges that might actually reflect the majority opinion of the nation. God forbid if democracy should actually have a voice amongst freedom. On every one of those issues the majority of Americans side with Bush. Of all of them abortion remains the biggest social issue in the country today. The majority of Americans do not favor abortion on demand as it exists in the nation today. The majority of Americans are appauled that abortion is a multi-billion dollar market in the nation today. The majority of Americans favor a ban against partial birth abortions. Basically you're argument comes down to this: A vote for Bush is a vote for democracy A vote for Kerry is a vote against democracy You decide. I tend to favor democracy when I vote & I do agree that the next term is an important one in that regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Who's good conscience? Yours? God forbid if any president should appoint judges that might actually reflect the majority opinion of the nation. God forbid if democracy should actually have a voice amongst freedom. On every one of those issues the majority of Americans side with Bush. Of all of them abortion remains the biggest social issue in the country today. The majority of Americans do not favor abortion on demand as it exists in the nation today. The majority of Americans are appauled that abortion is a multi-billion dollar market in the nation today. The majority of Americans favor a ban against partial birth abortions. Basically you're argument comes down to this: A vote for Bush is a vote for democracy A vote for Kerry is a vote against democracy You decide. I tend to favor democracy when I vote & I do agree that the next term is an important one in that regards. Juggs, in the past the majority of Americans did not favor voting rights for African Americans, women etc. etc. etc. That doesn't mean they were right. Bush may favor pro-life stances but that doesn't stop him from murdering the fetus after it grows up (i.e. capital punishment) As Bill Hicks says, "If you're for the sanctity of life then you're for it for people of all ages. If not, then shut the f*** up." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Juggs, in the past the majority of Americans did not favor voting rights for African Americans, women etc. etc. etc. That doesn't mean they were right. Bush may favor pro-life stances but that doesn't stop him from murdering the fetus after it grows up (i.e. capital punishment) As Bill Hicks says, "If you're for the sanctity of life then you're for it for people of all ages. If not, then shut the f*** up." I hear this argument all the time in terms of democracy & it so short-sighted. In terms of women's sufferage it was their right to peaceful protest that brought the injustice to the minds of the majority & turn the tide. It helped that war killed off part of the male population but the fact remains is that this movement is a clear sign of democracy in action. The same can be said about civil rights for blacks. Protests raised awareness & turn the tide of the majority. How did this happen? Because the majority of the nation believed in God given inalienable rights but never thought about which persons in America were not being honored by those rights. The protests brought the awareness to the nation & the movement spread like wild-fire because the majority understood the injustice & accepted the cause. In both these cases the extension or justification of rights for a group of people did not overtly threaten any rights of the majority. These cases are about groups being accepted into the majority. That happened through awareness & support. The legislation was a foregone conclusion once the movement had taken hold. In otherwords by the time govt weighed in on the subject, the majority had already supported the decision. That is in stark contrast to Roe v Wade, & the other activist rulings that led to God being taken out of the schools. There was no activist movement. There was simply a group of people dictating policy to America. With respect to the death penalty again the majority of Americans are in favor of it. I know it's hyprocritical with respect to pro-life but they see the victims of crime much more so than the cause itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 That point can'r be emphasized enough. Bush getting "re-elected" could absolutely lead to a scary make up of the Supreme Court, one with not a lot of interest in equality and the civil rights of US citizens. And they'lll be on the job for a loooong time to come. hang on a sec... so would anyone say that our current supreme court is moderate to conservative? and yet our cultural and moral compass has continued to plumate south (turn on the tv or log on to the internet, case closed). My point being that with the possibility of moderate to liberal justices nominated to the SC, why on God's green earth would I want the degredation of our society to be sped up? It sounds like more and more we should DEFINITELY vote for Bush, before the train wreck that is cultural and moral reletivism destroys our nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Kerry, Bush is such a sleazy, mother f***er with no intelligence whatsoever who's led this country into a s*** hole. The rest of the world hates us, and hates bush. Thats not condusive to being safe. Bush has actually increased world-wide terrorism with this f***ing war. And thats a good thing? What has Bush done to help average Americans? Nothing, he's putting the tax burden on the middle class and making the rich pay less. Not fair. He has no morals. End of story. Vote Kerry/Edwards 04! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I'm holding the nose and voting for Kerry because he cannot be as bad as the 4 years of Bush. 1) The National Debt has increased under Bush Jr. so drastically that the average American's share of the debt will be $24,000 compared to $500 when W first took office. 2) Under Bush Jr. we've gone from 41 million without health care to 43 million. 3) He cut health care benefits for veterans and increase co-payments and waiting time for VA hospitals. 4) Youth Opportunity Grants have been done away with. This was a program providing job training to America's youth and despite 13% unemployment of people aged 16-24, he gutted the program. 5) Cut funding for 375,000 low income college students and reduced Pell grant amounts to such a severe degree that it effectively caused 84,000 students to no longer be eligible for Pell grants. Pell grants have been overall reduced for 1.5 million students. 6) Our withdrawal from the International Criminal Court. 7) His refusal to punish or reprimand Lt. General Jerry Boykin for his comments about how the Christian God would kick Allah's ass. (not an exact quote...Google it) 8) First president to have a criminal record. 9) Decreased funding for the Violence Against Women Act. 10) Appointed Charles Pickering, a noted segregationist from MS, as a federal judge....on MLK Jr. Day. 11) Under the Clear Skies Initiative, power plants are allowed to emit 3x the amount of highly toxic mercury into the environment. 12) He's on pace to be the President with the most vacation time taken. Before 9/11, 42% of his presidency was "vacation time". 13) Failure to protect 3 million acres of the Tongass Nat'l Forest from logging. The Tongass has the highest concentration of bald eagles on Earth and already lost 700 sq. miles to logging with 33 more logging permits pending. 14) Pat Robertson has endorsed him. The same Pat Robertson quoted as stating that we should "nuke the State Department" and that 9/11 was caused by gays, lesbians, feminists, the ACLU, People for the American Way and other non-Christians. 15) His decline to fully fund the AIDS initiative that he promised to fund fully. 16) His denial of equal rights to the LGBT community. ok, those are nice statistics and all APU, but the reality is that X, Y, or Z president would have had to follow the same path to where we are right now. Clinton set Bush up for an economic down fall and 9/11 was the knife in the back that we're finally recovering from. Take your head out of your butt and tell me honestly that a majority of the problems Bush has faced wouldn't have been faced and handled more or less the same way by any other president. The national budget is only about 30% malleable. The first things to be cut during economic slow downs are public projects....that's universal...democrat, independent, republican. meh, whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 I guess my biggest beef with Bush is the image of America to the rest of the world, and how negatively he's affected it. I won't be able to vote, but if I could I would vote for Kerry, or any of the other dems if they would have won with the exception of Lieberman. In that case I'd go third party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 PA, 15% cut in Pentagon budget would fund all social programs adequately and keep our defenses more than funded. Also, things like reprimanding Boykin etc. don't cost money and are a good move to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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