Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Check out the line from a 24 year old Joe Nathan start. PITCHING San Francisco Giants IP H HR R ER BB K Nathan L(2-1) 2.2 9 2 12 10 4 3 Munoz is 21 and in that was his Major League debut. I'm combing Retro Sheet looking for comparable first starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Wow, Arnie isn't the only one I can tell you that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Here's a couple of meltdowns by a 29 year old David Wells. Toronto Blue Jays IP H HR R ER BB K Wells L(3-3) 2.2 7 0 9 1 2 3 PITCHING Toronto Blue Jays IP H HR R ER BB K Wells L(7-7) 4.1 11 1 13 13 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Here's a couple of meltdowns by a 29 year old David Wells. Toronto Blue Jays IP H HR R ER BB K Wells L(3-3) 2.2 7 0 9 1 2 3 PITCHING Toronto Blue Jays IP H HR R ER BB K Wells L(7-7) 4.1 11 1 13 13 4 1 OMG, not one earned run...the horror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 earned or not......... that's still a bad outing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Look for a Mark Prior bad outing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 earned or not......... that's still a bad outing He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base. But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" He still would have faced those guys the next inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 So... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base. But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" He still would have faced those guys the next inning. I know, I was kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Jamie Moyers second start. PITCHING Chicago Cubs IP H HR R ER BB K Moyer L(1-1) 2.2 7 2 6 6 1 3 Jaime Moyer's 4th start PITCHING Chicago Cubs IP H HR R ER BB K Moyer L(1-2) 0.2 4 0 5 3 1 0 Jamie Moyer's 8th start Chicago Cubs IP H HR R ER BB K Moyer L(3-3) 1.1 7 1 7 7 2 1 Interesting because Moyer has never had a dominant fastball. Munoz will never have a dominant fastball. There is a steep learning Curve. These starts were from Moyer's rookie year at 23 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Where the hell do you find this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Roy Halladay's 5th start. PITCHING Toronto Blue Jays IP H HR R ER BB K Halladay L(2-1) 2.1 9 2 11 11 3 1 Tom Glavine's 1st start PITCHING Atlanta Braves IP H HR R ER BB K Glavine L(0-1) 3.2 10 0 6 6 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base. But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" He still would have faced those guys the next inning. so you agree with me, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsSuck1 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 But whenever we face new pitcher on other teams, they always dominate against us. Odd, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 so you agree with me, right? I'm not sure about what. For the most part earned runs/ ERA isn't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher? Runs/RA need to be taken into account, as it's the pitchers job to prevent runs from scoring, regardless of defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I'm not sure about what. For the most part earned runs/ ERA isn't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher? Runs/RA need to be taken into account, as it's the pitchers job to prevent runs from scoring, regardless of defense? Agreed........ I was saying that it is still a s***ty outing if you give up 9 runs whether they are earned or not...... Hell, the runs could all be unearned because of his own f***up in the field..... doesn't excuse the s***ty pitching lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Here's two consecutive starts from Andy Pettitte's rookie year. PITCHING New York Yankees IP H HR R ER BB K Pettitte L(6-7) 0.2 8 0 6 6 0 2 PITCHING New York Yankees IP H HR R ER BB K Pettitte L(6-8) 2.2 5 1 6 6 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 But whenever we face new pitcher on other teams, they always dominate against us. Odd, isn't it? My brother and I were talking about that last night. Other teams seem to feast on inexperienced pitchers, but other team's inexperienced pitchers seem to feast on us. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Does anyone remember how Buehrle sucked basically the first whole month of 2001, then turned it around and by season's end had a 3.30 era.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Does anyone remember how Buehrle sucked basically the first whole month of 2001, then turned it around and by season's end had a 3.30 era.... Mark Buehrle's first 5 starts of 2001... 1-3, 5.52 ERA, 6.10 RA His first real good outing came in his 5th start. In that 5th start, against Seattle, he threw 8 strong innings, allowing 2 hits, 1 walk, and 1 run. He got a no-decision in that start(as Freddy Garcia was just as good). If not for that start against Seattle, Buehrle's ERA would have been 7.04, and his RA would have been 7.83. The numbers do not lie. At this point, however, it is too late to just bring up a 5th starter and put him in the rotation, because by the time he got settled in, we'd be somewhere around the ASB, or maybe even past it(I can't say exactly). A move has to be made, because we need a stable 5th starter(and I'd hope it would be Garland or Schoeneweis after we get a top 3 starter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 we all sound find a way to email arne these stats... i think it would give him something to smile about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 we all sound find a way to email arne these stats... i think it would give him something to smile about And something to motivate him more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Mark Buehrle's first 5 starts of 2001... 1-3, 5.52 ERA, 6.10 RA His first real good outing came in his 5th start. In that 5th start, against Seattle, he threw 8 strong innings, allowing 2 hits, 1 walk, and 1 run. He got a no-decision in that start(as Freddy Garcia was just as good). If not for that start against Seattle, Buehrle's ERA would have been 7.04, and his RA would have been 7.83. The numbers do not lie. At this point, however, it is too late to just bring up a 5th starter and put him in the rotation, because by the time he got settled in, we'd be somewhere around the ASB, or maybe even past it(I can't say exactly). A move has to be made, because we need a stable 5th starter(and I'd hope it would be Garland or Schoeneweis after we get a top 3 starter). Yeah Buehrle started horrible, he started to get it along, but he did not do as bad as Munoz first start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah Buehrle started horrible, he started to get it along, but he did not do as bad as Munoz first start And your point is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 And your point is? He has none. He just posts bulls*** to keep his post count up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.