DaSoxRox Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Foulke Lore It will be interesting during the course of this year to see who is performing better and whether or not KW messed things up once again....JM's handling of Foulke last year was definately questionable and I am also concerned that this deal may be a bust.... Let's hope I'm wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 JM's handling of Foulke last year was definately questionable and I am also concerned that this deal may be a bust.... You're not the only one that is concerned about this deal. I like Koch's attitude. But I still don't like this deal. And when it comes to KW's deals and my feelings, I'm usually right. I hope I'm wrong on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popeye089 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I to have doubts. I know Koch was great last year but Foulke was great two years ago ranked number two after the bar of comparison in Rivera. I think Foulke still has it & he justed needed a time to work it out. Koch has proved to be a great closer but I still had loyalty to Foulke because he loved this team and city. Koch does have the South Side attitude though of not taking any s*** and if someone questions him he gives the South Side Answer to all questions :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Foulke definately has it in him. The guy was a phenomenal closer, but it seemed like teams figured him out a bit. Then he made his adjustment and got back in the groove and was real impressive. It will be interesting to see how he does when he is going out there again in the ninth inning this year. Koch, this kid is an up and coming closer thats also very very good. He's got the shot at being amazing, especially if he keeps improving his control. I think both will be good closers, this deal was safer in the sense that the Sox now know they have a closer and he's here for a couple years, while Foulke would of been gone this year. Who knows what JM would of done if Foulke was around this year. We may be going into camp with a closer by committee situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I've said Foulke was better than Koch for the past 2 years, so even though Foulke is not on the team anymore, I have to stay true -- Foulke is a better closer than Billy Koch. However... As I've said before, I think there was MUCH more than met-the-eye with the Foulke/Sox situation last season. After struggling in a couple of games, the Sox went to a "closer-by-committee" system, and that gave Keith virtually 0 save chances, and was "demoted" to the 7th and 8th innings. He pitched great, but was never able to get his role of closer back. Why? Why was our best closer of the past 10 years unable to get his job back? I say something must have happened behind the scenes to prevent that. Maybe he wasn't as OK with it as he claimed to be. I think he pissed off management, and that sealed his fate. That said, I think the Sox went down slightly when they made this trade. Koch is a good closer -- one of the best in the league. But, in 2000 and 2001, Foulke was a great closer -- probably behind only Mariano Rivera. I look for Koch to have around 40 saves. He'll probably blow 5 or 6, and will not have an ERA as good as Keith did with the Sox. With all that said, I think it was a GOOD trade by the Sox. They got a guy that is definitely going to close (none of this "closer-by-committee" s***), and everyone's role is clearly defined... Innings 1-6 -- Starter Inning 7 -- Gordon Inning 8 -- Marte Inning 9 -- Koch Obviously, we'd like the starters to go as long as possible, but that isn't too bad of a system. Everyone knows what's going on, and as long as we stay competitive, everyone's happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I, too, am concerned about Koch. Any fireball thrower seems unstable to me. They rely on their fastball too much, and I have a lot more confidence in a guy like Foulke. But whats good about a fireballer, like Percy, Hoffman, Koch is that they scare the s*** outta the batters. I see the Foulke-Koch deal as positive because it really clears up everyoes roles in the pen. I mean, when Foulke was hear, I've heard rumors that he would become a STARTER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I, too, am concerned about Koch. Any fireball thrower seems unstable to me. They rely on their fastball too much, and I have a lot more confidence in a guy like Foulke. But whats good about a fireballer, like Percy, Hoffman, Koch is that they scare the s*** outta the batters. I see the Foulke-Koch deal as positive because it really clears up everyoes roles in the pen. I mean, when Foulke was hear, I've heard rumors that he would become a STARTER For what it matters...Hoffman and Foulke are similar pitchers, both relying heavily on a very good changeup. I like 98 MPH closer-types because of the fact that even on a bad night they can get the save....I don't like them because on a good night they can still blow a save. When Foulke has a bad night, the game is pretty much over and you will lose....because he will be hit around quite a bit. But when he has a good night....the game is over too, and you will win. With fireballers....you never know what you're gonna get, regardless of how their stuff is on a particular night. That being said....we lost a good backup catcher in the deal and a reliever who had the best arm in the organization...and we got a potential starter out of the deal and an outfielder with a little pop from the left side of the plate. We'll need both Cotts and Holt to be huge and for Koch to close atleast 100 games for us in these three years that he is year to make this a good trade...because otherwise, the A's make out like bandits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 JM handling of KF is why I have no faith in JM. Koch threw more pitches per inning than any closer in MLB, not just AL per apperance. KF era was under 1.00 after July last year. Koch throws hard and KF throws Change-ups, I guess we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 JM handling of KF is why I have no faith in JM. Koch threw more pitches per inning than any closer in MLB, not just AL per apperance. KF era was under 1.00 after July last year. JM's constant tinkering, which includes his closer by committee bulls*** in 2002, is why I have no faith in JM as the White Sox manager. We aren't even a week into ST and already JM is talking his tinker bulls***. I'm so goddamn sick and tired of seeing a different line-up everyday of the week. Not to mention, no one in the bullpen had a role last year. One game it's Foulke as set-up man..... the next day, he closes..... then he doesn't pitch for a week. Next days closer is Osuna..... followed by Marte. One day Lofton is in CF. The next day, Harris is in CF. And on Sundays, Valentin plays CF while Jimenez and Harris play SS and 2B respectively. Or, maybe Valentin will play 3B. And when Valentin didn't play CF or 3B, he usually sat on the bench in favor of Choice K-layton. Not to mention, the constant batting line-up changes. I could go on...... but I'll stop here. I know it's the players who ultimately decide the outcome of the games, but when no one has a defined role, is it any wonder why the 2002 White Sox finished .500? :fyou Jerry Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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